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Are you talking about USA? What safety nets are available in the US? P.S. It's just a question. Not everyone lives in the US. Heck, maybe the OP was even talki

Are you talking about USA? What safety nets are available in the US? P.S. It's just a question. Not everyone lives in the US. Heck, maybe the OP was even talking about another country, say Denmark.

petesergeant 3y ago
Earned Income Tax Credit, Supplemental Security Income, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, the Child Care and Development Fund, housing assistance, Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program, Medicaid and Children’s Health Insurance Program, Special Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program for Women, Infants and Children
- macintux 3y ago
  Those safety nets have huge gaps. The government doesn't want to be accused of harboring freeloaders (or, perhaps more accurately, a significant chunk of the population would rather people be homeless than a few "welfare queens" be permitted to cheat the system), so many who are genuinely in need can't get it.
  - petesergeant 3y ago
    That’s true of most rich countries. The big difference between the US and most rich countries is universal healthcare.
    - Ozzie_osman 3y ago
      That is a very, very big difference.
      - petesergeant 3y ago
        It is, although it disproportionately affects people who are poor but not broke. If you’re truly broke, there’s Medicaid, if you’re old there’s Medicare, 4% by some form of military healthcare, many people covered by their employers, and so on. 90% of Americans are insured. As a Britisher, obviously I’m in favour of universal healthcare, and I think the US system would benefit from it. But let’s not pretend it’s perfect there either
        autoexec 3y ago
        > f you’re truly broke, there’s Medicaid Which you still might not qualify for, and may not get even if you do qualify for it (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/15/john-oliver-medicaid https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/15/john-ol...) > 90% of Americans are insured. Which doesn't prevent nearly 40% of americans from being forced to put off needed medical care because of the expense they're still subjected to. (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/americans-put-off-health-care-because-of-cost-how-you-can-save.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/americans-put-off-health-car...) Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy.
        petesergeant 3y ago
        Again, with the caveat that I much prefer the British system... > nearly 40% of americans from being forced to put off needed medical care Hard to interpret UK NHS waiting-time figures, especially given the political weight given to them, but these[0][1] paint a picture of 6 month to >1 year waiting times. 0: https://www.boa.ac.uk/resource/boa-statement-on-nhs-app-showing-average-waiting-times-for-surgery.html https://www.boa.ac.uk/resource/boa-statement-on-nhs-app-show... 1: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-releases/rtt-waiting-times-march-2023/ https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-... > Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy Medical debt for non-elective treatment feels barbaric, although digging into the figures (2m personal bankruptcies a year, 60% medical) gives 0.3% of the US population declaring medical bankruptcy a year, possibly going up to 1% if you do fancier maths involving households vs people.
        defrost 3y ago
        It might be worth stressing for US audiences that the UK NHS waiting times quoted are for elective non life threatening procedures; osteoarthritis surgeries that decrease pain for people already with a degenerative joint disease, hip and knee replacements, etc. The long wait times, 22 weeks mean average, > 63 week in 8% of extreme waits, are regrettable but not indicitive of waiting for urgent emergency life threatening required non elective procedures which are relatively prompt and immediate for the most part.
    - tough 3y ago
      Life and death kinda difference innit
      - petesergeant 3y ago
        Wikipedia suggests 0.01% of the US population dies each year (30-40,000) due to lack of health insurance. I’m sure the real number is at least double.
- adventured 3y ago
  The US in fact has a gigantic welfare state support system. The US spends more of its GDP on social welfare than either Canada or Australia, and we spend it poorly unfortunately (our return on investment is not great, we spend too much for too weak of results, as with healthcare). To add to your list: housing, healthcare, food programs exist at the local + state + federal levels. The US state government system is huge unto itself, like having an entire other federal government nearly. There are thousands of government support programs between the state + federal levels of government. People outside of the US are almost entirely ignorant of how large the government systems in the US are. They're not as big as in France or Denmark obviously, they are still sizable compared to the median peer nation (on a GDP % basis).
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Mostly because the help is provided too late. We do some stuff (often not the right stuff) to prop up people struggling as adults. We do very little, relatively speaking, to enhance people's childhoods (or even just ensure that it's OK).
- rajamaka 3y ago
  Also all the non governmental safety nets. Food banks, charities, mutual aid networks, shelters and religious orgs.
gfiorav 3y ago
It doesn't shock me that there's anti-US propaganda. It shocks me that people on this site routinely fall for it.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  I think it’s more that we routinely see very poor and mentally ill people in the US get zero support? It’s not a great stretch to go from there to assume they don’t have any social security at all. If it’s available but many people cannot or do not know to make use of it, is it really social security? If they do make use of it and it’s still not enough, does that change things?
  - adventured 3y ago
    It's a nation of ~360-370 million people including undocumented. Have you seen the horrific conditions the poorest people of Europe 'survive' in? The ghettos of Eastern Europe are every bit as bad as the worst areas of Baltimore or St Louis. The bad areas in and around Paris are hyper minority poverty with zero upward mobility and extreme unemployment problems (thus the annual large riots). People in rural Western Russia live in third world conditions on $20-$30 per month; they live like nothing has improved in a century. To say nothing of the Ukraine war, which is now part of their living condition (for Ukraine and Russia). You realize how poor Moldova or North Macedonia are? The level of education and outcomes among the bottom 20% of Europe is every bit as bad as the bottom 20% in the US. It's exceptionally difficult to provide a median (or median+) first world outcome to so many, perhaps impossible.
    - robocat 3y ago
      Not sure how relevant it is to compare the poor in the USA to the poor in Europe. The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most European Nations: https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/ https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-ric... Although averages are a dangerous measure to use and I guess the article is wrong for other reasons (I think it is talking about consumption). The study and article are in response to the crazy OECD poverty measurements: "OECD measure assigns a higher poverty rate to the US (17.8 percent) than to Mexico (16.6 percent). Yet World Bank data show that 35 percent of Mexico’s population lives on less than $5.50 per day, compared to only 2 percent of people in the United States." I'm in New Zealand, where we have some social support for the unfortunate. Disclaimer: I'm very ignorant of conditions for the poor in the US and Europe.
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
Rather than looking at USA as Scandinavian county, imagine living in some of the counties in the global south. The competition for good jobs is so intense that you’ll work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. You won’t miss work if you’re sick or have a family event because then somebody else gets your job. Culturally second chances don’t exist, and you’re the only chance your children have to get through school (because you have to pay for it) and for your parents to retire in peace (because they live with you and you care for them). Heaven forbid you get sick. There’s barely a regulatory system for doctors. The doctor takes your temperature but wasn’t trained to sanitize the thermometer correctly. You are now double sick and don’t have somewhere safe to isolate because your rented home has 2 rooms and no ability to ventilate. Your family is now sick, and your children’s school has no mercy for missing class. The children have to compete in complicated exams to even have the sliver of a chance to land themselves in a good university. Otherwise, they’re just gonna live in your footsteps. Oh and don’t take out a loan, because when you do and somehow your entire contact list lands in your lenders hands, every contact on the list will hear about your debt for the next several months. I’m just demonstrating here but this is an example of the stressful life many people around the world are living. We are blessed to be in the USA.
- ciupicri 3y ago
  There are no doubt way worse places than the US. I was under the impressions that Americans work hard too. For example, if I'm not mistaking there's no mandated minimum number of vacation days, so you might get only 11 compared to 20 in most European countries. > Heaven forbid you get sick. The medical act is (very) good in the US, but is it affordable? > The children have to compete in complicated exams to even have the sliver of a chance to land themselves in a good university. Doesn't the same apply to the US as well? You either have lots of money, or good grades or you're good athlete.
  - vladgur 3y ago
    > The medical act is (very) good in the US, but is it affordable? The answer is....it depends. If youre at poverty levels you would qualify for federal-level Medicaid insurance. learning about these benefits takes some digging. Some states(often democrat) provide their omedical benefit coverage for people who are at or below poverty line(which is itself a locale-specific metric). If youre upper-middle-class or work for the government, you have good medical insurance through your employer or by paying $$$$$ out of pocket. Anything between these two -- youre probably underserved in terms of medical coverage and you probably only see the inside of hospitals via emergency rooms.

Are you talking about USA? What safety nets are available in the US? P.S. It's just a question. Not everyone lives in the US. Heck, maybe the OP was even talking about another country, say Denmark.

petesergeant 3y ago

Earned Income Tax Credit, Supplemental Security Income, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, the Child Care and Development Fund, housing assistance, Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program, Medicaid and Children’s Health Insurance Program, Special Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program for Women, Infants and Children

macintux 3y ago
Those safety nets have huge gaps. The government doesn't want to be accused of harboring freeloaders (or, perhaps more accurately, a significant chunk of the population would rather people be homeless than a few "welfare queens" be permitted to cheat the system), so many who are genuinely in need can't get it.
- petesergeant 3y ago
  That’s true of most rich countries. The big difference between the US and most rich countries is universal healthcare.
  - Ozzie_osman 3y ago
    That is a very, very big difference.
    - petesergeant 3y ago
      It is, although it disproportionately affects people who are poor but not broke. If you’re truly broke, there’s Medicaid, if you’re old there’s Medicare, 4% by some form of military healthcare, many people covered by their employers, and so on. 90% of Americans are insured. As a Britisher, obviously I’m in favour of universal healthcare, and I think the US system would benefit from it. But let’s not pretend it’s perfect there either
      - autoexec 3y ago
        > f you’re truly broke, there’s Medicaid Which you still might not qualify for, and may not get even if you do qualify for it (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/15/john-oliver-medicaid https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/apr/15/john-ol...) > 90% of Americans are insured. Which doesn't prevent nearly 40% of americans from being forced to put off needed medical care because of the expense they're still subjected to. (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/americans-put-off-health-care-because-of-cost-how-you-can-save.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/americans-put-off-health-car...) Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy.
        petesergeant 3y ago
        Again, with the caveat that I much prefer the British system... > nearly 40% of americans from being forced to put off needed medical care Hard to interpret UK NHS waiting-time figures, especially given the political weight given to them, but these[0][1] paint a picture of 6 month to >1 year waiting times. 0: https://www.boa.ac.uk/resource/boa-statement-on-nhs-app-showing-average-waiting-times-for-surgery.html https://www.boa.ac.uk/resource/boa-statement-on-nhs-app-show... 1: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-releases/rtt-waiting-times-march-2023/ https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-... > Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy Medical debt for non-elective treatment feels barbaric, although digging into the figures (2m personal bankruptcies a year, 60% medical) gives 0.3% of the US population declaring medical bankruptcy a year, possibly going up to 1% if you do fancier maths involving households vs people.
        defrost 3y ago
        It might be worth stressing for US audiences that the UK NHS waiting times quoted are for elective non life threatening procedures; osteoarthritis surgeries that decrease pain for people already with a degenerative joint disease, hip and knee replacements, etc. The long wait times, 22 weeks mean average, > 63 week in 8% of extreme waits, are regrettable but not indicitive of waiting for urgent emergency life threatening required non elective procedures which are relatively prompt and immediate for the most part.
  - tough 3y ago
    Life and death kinda difference innit
    - petesergeant 3y ago
      Wikipedia suggests 0.01% of the US population dies each year (30-40,000) due to lack of health insurance. I’m sure the real number is at least double.
adventured 3y ago
The US in fact has a gigantic welfare state support system. The US spends more of its GDP on social welfare than either Canada or Australia, and we spend it poorly unfortunately (our return on investment is not great, we spend too much for too weak of results, as with healthcare). To add to your list: housing, healthcare, food programs exist at the local + state + federal levels. The US state government system is huge unto itself, like having an entire other federal government nearly. There are thousands of government support programs between the state + federal levels of government. People outside of the US are almost entirely ignorant of how large the government systems in the US are. They're not as big as in France or Denmark obviously, they are still sizable compared to the median peer nation (on a GDP % basis).
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  Mostly because the help is provided too late. We do some stuff (often not the right stuff) to prop up people struggling as adults. We do very little, relatively speaking, to enhance people's childhoods (or even just ensure that it's OK).
rajamaka 3y ago
Also all the non governmental safety nets. Food banks, charities, mutual aid networks, shelters and religious orgs.

gfiorav 3y ago

It doesn't shock me that there's anti-US propaganda. It shocks me that people on this site routinely fall for it.

Aeolun 3y ago
I think it’s more that we routinely see very poor and mentally ill people in the US get zero support? It’s not a great stretch to go from there to assume they don’t have any social security at all. If it’s available but many people cannot or do not know to make use of it, is it really social security? If they do make use of it and it’s still not enough, does that change things?
- adventured 3y ago
  It's a nation of ~360-370 million people including undocumented. Have you seen the horrific conditions the poorest people of Europe 'survive' in? The ghettos of Eastern Europe are every bit as bad as the worst areas of Baltimore or St Louis. The bad areas in and around Paris are hyper minority poverty with zero upward mobility and extreme unemployment problems (thus the annual large riots). People in rural Western Russia live in third world conditions on $20-$30 per month; they live like nothing has improved in a century. To say nothing of the Ukraine war, which is now part of their living condition (for Ukraine and Russia). You realize how poor Moldova or North Macedonia are? The level of education and outcomes among the bottom 20% of Europe is every bit as bad as the bottom 20% in the US. It's exceptionally difficult to provide a median (or median+) first world outcome to so many, perhaps impossible.
  - robocat 3y ago
    Not sure how relevant it is to compare the poor in the USA to the poor in Europe. The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most European Nations: https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/ https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-ric... Although averages are a dangerous measure to use and I guess the article is wrong for other reasons (I think it is talking about consumption). The study and article are in response to the crazy OECD poverty measurements: "OECD measure assigns a higher poverty rate to the US (17.8 percent) than to Mexico (16.6 percent). Yet World Bank data show that 35 percent of Mexico’s population lives on less than $5.50 per day, compared to only 2 percent of people in the United States." I'm in New Zealand, where we have some social support for the unfortunate. Disclaimer: I'm very ignorant of conditions for the poor in the US and Europe.

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

Rather than looking at USA as Scandinavian county, imagine living in some of the counties in the global south. The competition for good jobs is so intense that you’ll work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. You won’t miss work if you’re sick or have a family event because then somebody else gets your job. Culturally second chances don’t exist, and you’re the only chance your children have to get through school (because you have to pay for it) and for your parents to retire in peace (because they live with you and you care for them). Heaven forbid you get sick. There’s barely a regulatory system for doctors. The doctor takes your temperature but wasn’t trained to sanitize the thermometer correctly. You are now double sick and don’t have somewhere safe to isolate because your rented home has 2 rooms and no ability to ventilate. Your family is now sick, and your children’s school has no mercy for missing class. The children have to compete in complicated exams to even have the sliver of a chance to land themselves in a good university. Otherwise, they’re just gonna live in your footsteps. Oh and don’t take out a loan, because when you do and somehow your entire contact list lands in your lenders hands, every contact on the list will hear about your debt for the next several months. I’m just demonstrating here but this is an example of the stressful life many people around the world are living. We are blessed to be in the USA.

ciupicri 3y ago
There are no doubt way worse places than the US. I was under the impressions that Americans work hard too. For example, if I'm not mistaking there's no mandated minimum number of vacation days, so you might get only 11 compared to 20 in most European countries. > Heaven forbid you get sick. The medical act is (very) good in the US, but is it affordable? > The children have to compete in complicated exams to even have the sliver of a chance to land themselves in a good university. Doesn't the same apply to the US as well? You either have lots of money, or good grades or you're good athlete.
- vladgur 3y ago
  > The medical act is (very) good in the US, but is it affordable? The answer is....it depends. If youre at poverty levels you would qualify for federal-level Medicaid insurance. learning about these benefits takes some digging. Some states(often democrat) provide their omedical benefit coverage for people who are at or below poverty line(which is itself a locale-specific metric). If youre upper-middle-class or work for the government, you have good medical insurance through your employer or by paying $$$$$ out of pocket. Anything between these two -- youre probably underserved in terms of medical coverage and you probably only see the inside of hospitals via emergency rooms.