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I see a number of negative stories, so sharing my positive story with self driving cars. Two weeks ago driving home, Tesla Model Y with FSD, FSD on, nighttime,

I see a number of negative stories, so sharing my positive story with self driving cars. Two weeks ago driving home, Tesla Model Y with FSD, FSD on, nighttime, suburban streets. Car phantom brakes and I can’t see a reason why. Glance down and I see the UI thinks a human is running into the street. I look back up, canceling FSD and taking over… and a damn invisible guy in dark brown jacket and black pants races past my headlights. He had stopped before crossing my lane, but when he saw FSD slow down he booked it across. Other cars slowed after he cut straight into my headlights as they noticed him for the first time. No one else saw him either. I was super impressed with FSD. The promised perfect future isn’t here - you can’t take a nap and the car drives you - but the current state is a value add.

KennyBlanken 2y ago
It's not a value-add given it causes chain-reaction crashes from phantom braking and quite regularly slams into the back of emergency vehicles on the side of the road (likely because the cameras are blinded by the emergency lights.) Teslas had radar assist. It was too expensive for Musk. And to keep new car owners from being annoyed by older Telsas having more features than theirs, he ordered that the older Teslas have their radar units be disabled.
- machdiamonds 2y ago
  Do you actually have any examples of FSD v12 hitting emergency vehicles?
- hokumguru 2y ago
  Anecdotal I know, but I bought a model Y last year without radar. We’ve used FSD substantially and haven’t seen phantom braking issues even once. I think it’s been mostly resolved.
  - dmix 2y ago
    I've never driven one but I follow a youtube channel that documents beta FSD, posting raw video feeds and analyzing/critiquing them, and I've noticed they've been gushing about it more and more this past year. Far more than in the past he's always talking about how its mastered very complex stuff it would have disengaged or awkwardly completed only half a year earlier. I think the platform has improved quite a bit in recent years. Of course opinions on the internet will have been established from headlines in prior years so who knows how much impact it will have on discourse if it turns out to be the case.
    - hexane360 2y ago
      On the other hand, I saw this just this morning: https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585 https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585
- InTheArena 2y ago
  Actually, it appears that getting rid of "sensor fusion" has resulted in almost all of the phantom braking issues. My car still has radar assist, and only uses visual models now. And in that time, Phantom breaking has become a thing of the past. The hitting a emergency vehicle thing - which is incredibly common as a kind of car crash - see why police always set their wheels to face into traffic when they do a traffic stop - doesn't seem to be occurring. (Just in case you wanted some actual data)
  - MBCook 2y ago
    I’ve owned 2 cars with radar. I’ve been in at least 2 others owned by family with radar. None Teslas. None had phantom braking. Tesla may have solved their issue (no 1st hand experience) but having radar shouldn’t have caused it if implemented properly. It’s clearly possible, seeming every other brand has managed.
    - InTheArena 2y ago
      Really? I saw phantom breaking all the time from both Toyota and Hondas. Typically on a slope, with something like rail crossings where the signals got a little squirrely. having the same glitch across multiple vendors with different implementation makes me think it's more a basic physics problem. Regardless, the Tesla vision system - love it or hate it, is doing far far more safety systems then radar only based systems.
      - MBCook 2y ago
        In the 6 years I had it I got a handful of false warnings from my Honda, but never a false brake activation. In the three years I’ve had my Mach E has had fewer false alerts than the Honda. The one exception is it has a reverse brake assist the Honda didn’t, designed to stop you from hitting things when backing up. One friend’s driveway is so steep where it joins the street that if you’re not going very slow it will trigger the reverse brake assist. That was a surprise the first time.
        2y ago
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  > Teslas have their radar units be disabled. That's simply untrue. My 2015 Model S still uses the radar.
kbos87 2y ago
Same thing has happened to me. FSD sounded the alarm and hard braked on a dark two lane highway. I couldn’t see why until I fully passed someone dressed in dark clothing who had just crossed the road. I was paying full attention and never saw them. They were probably a couple hundred feet from the front of my car.
kelnos 2y ago
The "funny" thing, though, is if you hadn't been using FSD at all, you probably never would have seen him at all, and he wouldn't have crossed until after you passed. FSD slowing down is what caused him to think it was safe to cross, because he thought "you" saw him. But you -- very reasonably! -- thought the car was slowing for no reason, and you might have hit the guy had you manually accelerated sooner. Not saying this was your fault in the least. Just thought it was interesting that FSD -- in a very strange way -- could have actually caused you to hit a pedestrian, even though it saw the person and did the right thing.
- userbinator 2y ago
  Encouraging pedestrians to play chicken with cars is never a good thing.
  - gmokki 2y ago
    I personally play chicken with cars very often. Of course only when it is my right as a pedestrian. If more people did that the drivers would be constantly more alert. Twice a car has done emergency braking in front of me (they were not alert and braked late) and got rear ended.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      This seems like a very bad practice, unless you want your inevitable gravestone to say "Here lies gmokki. It was his right as a pedestrian."
      - Free-is-Freedom 2y ago
        Eh, that sounds like a pretty good legacy for the current era. Mine will probably say "Unknown" or "Anonymous"
    - beAbU 2y ago
      This sounds like terrible practice and you are gambling with you life. And probably the lives of those around you. Fine, you might have right of way. Fine, the car driver might legally be in the wrong. But you'd still be dead and nothing changes that. You are not invincible, and the law will change fuck-all about you being in a wheelchair breathing through a tube for the rest of your life. I doubt youll even change the behaviour of the at-fault driver that much. Lobby your council for better infrastructure for pedestrians, and steeper fines for infractions. Well lit and marked zebra crossings, etc. In Ireland _every_ zebra crossing outside of Dublin has bright flashing yellow lights on both sides that constantly flash day and night. If you are half asleep at the wheel they sure wake you up as you approach the crossing!
noAnswer 2y ago
Over 10 years ago. Colleague comes into the office and says: "I nearly died yesterday." Tells a story how he (as a passenger) was driving with other colleague to an exhibition. The driver thought it was a good idea to explain the car radio to the others...while driving over 200km/h on the German Autobahn. The car, a VW Passart, suddenly engaged full braking while slowly steering to the right (onto the breakdown lane). They came to a full stop besides a standing car. Without the auto braking they would have driven into the end of a traffic jam with very high speed.
- Free-is-Freedom 2y ago
  This is equivalent to "A colleague of mine played russian roulette but lived because the safety was on" The moral of the story is not that safety mechanisms are good (this is self evident) but rather that you should never gamble with your life.
  - noAnswer 2y ago
    There is no moral. It just happend. The End. People have to travel sometimes and can't always be the driver/pilot/operator of the vehicle. And if they are, they can't always be at their 100%.
1oooqooq 2y ago
my euro sedans from the 80s already had night vision options. would be a much better use of the infotainment screens today and cost much less than FSD snakeoil. while covering this single praise for it.
- t0mas88 2y ago
  BMW still has it. Mine will display a large warning triangle with a pedestrian in it projected on the windscreen, and then you can look at the nav display to view the night camera view from the grill with the person highlighted in yellow (the rest is black and white for night vision) It responds to bicycles and pedestrians either on the road or moving laterally across your path. Ignores the ones that are on the sidewalk and going the same direction as the car.
- kaliqt 2y ago
  Tesla FSD is not snake oil.
  - Arainach 2y ago
    "Snake oil is a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam. Similarly, snake oil salesman is a common label used to describe someone who sells, promotes, or is a general proponent of some valueless or fraudulent cure, remedy, or solution" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil Selling something as "full self driving" or "autopilot" when it is nothing of the sort is in fact deceptive marketing. Claiming something will be "ready in 2 years" for 10+ years in a row is deceptive marketing and a scam. Fine print saying the system has limited capabilities does not make it not a scam. Using a name consumers associate with 100% computer control is flat out deceptive and indicative of snake oil.

KennyBlanken 2y ago

It's not a value-add given it causes chain-reaction crashes from phantom braking and quite regularly slams into the back of emergency vehicles on the side of the road (likely because the cameras are blinded by the emergency lights.) Teslas had radar assist. It was too expensive for Musk. And to keep new car owners from being annoyed by older Telsas having more features than theirs, he ordered that the older Teslas have their radar units be disabled.

machdiamonds 2y ago
Do you actually have any examples of FSD v12 hitting emergency vehicles?
hokumguru 2y ago
Anecdotal I know, but I bought a model Y last year without radar. We’ve used FSD substantially and haven’t seen phantom braking issues even once. I think it’s been mostly resolved.
- dmix 2y ago
  I've never driven one but I follow a youtube channel that documents beta FSD, posting raw video feeds and analyzing/critiquing them, and I've noticed they've been gushing about it more and more this past year. Far more than in the past he's always talking about how its mastered very complex stuff it would have disengaged or awkwardly completed only half a year earlier. I think the platform has improved quite a bit in recent years. Of course opinions on the internet will have been established from headlines in prior years so who knows how much impact it will have on discourse if it turns out to be the case.
  - hexane360 2y ago
    On the other hand, I saw this just this morning: https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585 https://x.com/RealDanODowd/status/1778224756220940585
InTheArena 2y ago
Actually, it appears that getting rid of "sensor fusion" has resulted in almost all of the phantom braking issues. My car still has radar assist, and only uses visual models now. And in that time, Phantom breaking has become a thing of the past. The hitting a emergency vehicle thing - which is incredibly common as a kind of car crash - see why police always set their wheels to face into traffic when they do a traffic stop - doesn't seem to be occurring. (Just in case you wanted some actual data)
- MBCook 2y ago
  I’ve owned 2 cars with radar. I’ve been in at least 2 others owned by family with radar. None Teslas. None had phantom braking. Tesla may have solved their issue (no 1st hand experience) but having radar shouldn’t have caused it if implemented properly. It’s clearly possible, seeming every other brand has managed.
  - InTheArena 2y ago
    Really? I saw phantom breaking all the time from both Toyota and Hondas. Typically on a slope, with something like rail crossings where the signals got a little squirrely. having the same glitch across multiple vendors with different implementation makes me think it's more a basic physics problem. Regardless, the Tesla vision system - love it or hate it, is doing far far more safety systems then radar only based systems.
    - MBCook 2y ago
      In the 6 years I had it I got a handful of false warnings from my Honda, but never a false brake activation. In the three years I’ve had my Mach E has had fewer false alerts than the Honda. The one exception is it has a reverse brake assist the Honda didn’t, designed to stop you from hitting things when backing up. One friend’s driveway is so steep where it joins the street that if you’re not going very slow it will trigger the reverse brake assist. That was a surprise the first time.
      - 2y ago
kwhitefoot 2y ago
> Teslas have their radar units be disabled. That's simply untrue. My 2015 Model S still uses the radar.

kbos87 2y ago

Same thing has happened to me. FSD sounded the alarm and hard braked on a dark two lane highway. I couldn’t see why until I fully passed someone dressed in dark clothing who had just crossed the road. I was paying full attention and never saw them. They were probably a couple hundred feet from the front of my car.

kelnos 2y ago

The "funny" thing, though, is if you hadn't been using FSD at all, you probably never would have seen him at all, and he wouldn't have crossed until after you passed. FSD slowing down is what caused him to think it was safe to cross, because he thought "you" saw him. But you -- very reasonably! -- thought the car was slowing for no reason, and you might have hit the guy had you manually accelerated sooner. Not saying this was your fault in the least. Just thought it was interesting that FSD -- in a very strange way -- could have actually caused you to hit a pedestrian, even though it saw the person and did the right thing.

userbinator 2y ago
Encouraging pedestrians to play chicken with cars is never a good thing.
- gmokki 2y ago
  I personally play chicken with cars very often. Of course only when it is my right as a pedestrian. If more people did that the drivers would be constantly more alert. Twice a car has done emergency braking in front of me (they were not alert and braked late) and got rear ended.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    This seems like a very bad practice, unless you want your inevitable gravestone to say "Here lies gmokki. It was his right as a pedestrian."
    - Free-is-Freedom 2y ago
      Eh, that sounds like a pretty good legacy for the current era. Mine will probably say "Unknown" or "Anonymous"
  - beAbU 2y ago
    This sounds like terrible practice and you are gambling with you life. And probably the lives of those around you. Fine, you might have right of way. Fine, the car driver might legally be in the wrong. But you'd still be dead and nothing changes that. You are not invincible, and the law will change fuck-all about you being in a wheelchair breathing through a tube for the rest of your life. I doubt youll even change the behaviour of the at-fault driver that much. Lobby your council for better infrastructure for pedestrians, and steeper fines for infractions. Well lit and marked zebra crossings, etc. In Ireland _every_ zebra crossing outside of Dublin has bright flashing yellow lights on both sides that constantly flash day and night. If you are half asleep at the wheel they sure wake you up as you approach the crossing!

noAnswer 2y ago

Over 10 years ago. Colleague comes into the office and says: "I nearly died yesterday." Tells a story how he (as a passenger) was driving with other colleague to an exhibition. The driver thought it was a good idea to explain the car radio to the others...while driving over 200km/h on the German Autobahn. The car, a VW Passart, suddenly engaged full braking while slowly steering to the right (onto the breakdown lane). They came to a full stop besides a standing car. Without the auto braking they would have driven into the end of a traffic jam with very high speed.

Free-is-Freedom 2y ago
This is equivalent to "A colleague of mine played russian roulette but lived because the safety was on" The moral of the story is not that safety mechanisms are good (this is self evident) but rather that you should never gamble with your life.
- noAnswer 2y ago
  There is no moral. It just happend. The End. People have to travel sometimes and can't always be the driver/pilot/operator of the vehicle. And if they are, they can't always be at their 100%.

1oooqooq 2y ago

my euro sedans from the 80s already had night vision options. would be a much better use of the infotainment screens today and cost much less than FSD snakeoil. while covering this single praise for it.

t0mas88 2y ago
BMW still has it. Mine will display a large warning triangle with a pedestrian in it projected on the windscreen, and then you can look at the nav display to view the night camera view from the grill with the person highlighted in yellow (the rest is black and white for night vision) It responds to bicycles and pedestrians either on the road or moving laterally across your path. Ignores the ones that are on the sidewalk and going the same direction as the car.
kaliqt 2y ago
Tesla FSD is not snake oil.
- Arainach 2y ago
  "Snake oil is a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam. Similarly, snake oil salesman is a common label used to describe someone who sells, promotes, or is a general proponent of some valueless or fraudulent cure, remedy, or solution" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil Selling something as "full self driving" or "autopilot" when it is nothing of the sort is in fact deceptive marketing. Claiming something will be "ready in 2 years" for 10+ years in a row is deceptive marketing and a scam. Fine print saying the system has limited capabilities does not make it not a scam. Using a name consumers associate with 100% computer control is flat out deceptive and indicative of snake oil.