8 ms·

Ford's battery flagship socked by mold sickness, workers say

144 points by Michelangelo11 3y ago

duxup 3y ago
Interesting. I will say I find the writing a little off putting. Felt like they wanted to rope in every name, company and person involved here. "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. Clearly this publication is pro labor unions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Notes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Notes), but it is strange that they push this narrative and note how people in the labor union were working in these poor conditions: "many have required their union workers to build on 12-hour shifts, seven days a week. Despite months of worker concerns, managers waited until early February to take basic precautions against the mold—precautions that might slow construction" Gee thanks labor unions for helping out? This article is all over the place. There's a story here that IMO could have been told, and accomplished the same goals without the internal weirdness of the article sort of pointing back at itself.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Think your response is similarly all over the place. "Despite months of worker concerns, managers waited until early February to take basic precautions against the mold" Doesn't this indicate that the union was raising concerns and needed to push for action? Mold is no joke. I knew a guy that died after working in moldy conditions. He was old, and pneumonia.
  - duxup 3y ago
    I wouldn't assume that.
    - darby_eight 3y ago
      ...why not? The article seems to clearly imply it to my eye.
      - duxup 3y ago
        I would think a publication would have explicitly said so in order to as they say "advocates for a revitalization of the labor movement". I got no problem with that goal, it's just a strange article to try to do that with.
        stuaxo 3y ago
        Not sure why that is - you can see from the first paragraph that there are problems that are the result of poor workers rights.
    - replygirl 3y ago
      the NLRA/B don't cover managers, and union leadership is a separate role from on-the-job management. for the readership of a magazine targeting current or prospective union members and leadership, this is fundamental knowledge, so it won't ever be spelled out in an article it's also worth clarifying that labor notes is _pro labor_, not necessarily _pro union_, and especially not _pro one specific type of union (e.g. industrial vs craft)_. when a labor union fails its members, this is one of the canonical publications covering it
      - duxup 3y ago
        If the article only works if you approach it as preaching to the choir ... maybe it does make sense. But it certainly makes it a poor article if they're "advocates for a revitalization of the labor movement" beyond the the rank and file union choir who would assume the union took action. You'd think they'd want to appeal to others too. For the record, I don't so much care what the union did or didn't do, my comment was more about the article itself.
        replygirl 3y ago
        right, i'm not taking a side either, just saying your comment showed you lacked the context to understand what you were reading. as you stated and defended. you made a misinterpretation that can only happen if you _don't know the basics what a union is_ — important context for reading a labor publication targeting labor people.
      - Animats 3y ago
        Right. It's also assuming knowledge about the auto industry. Ford is building what they call "Blue Oval City" near Glendale, Kentucky, an all-new complex of plants. [1] https://bestneighborhood.org/race-in-glendale-ky/ https://bestneighborhood.org/race-in-glendale-ky/
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      I think what you are missing is that Labor Unions are people that are generally trying to do the right thing. So were probably working for awhile with the mold, and raising concerns, but as time goes by, and issues are ignored, you have to start complaining louder and louder. Then by the time someone listens, it seems like you are screaming about nothing.
      - arrakeenrevived 3y ago
        The article directly says the opposite, and reinforces what GP comment was saying about the union not being helpful: > Although Dugan, Shaffer, and other members say their union stewards on site helped press their concerns to management, they say that local and international IBEW officers who visited the facility scoffed at their concerns. Dugan says a local officer refused to file a grievance on his behalf about the mold in January. One worker requested to stay anonymous out of concern that union officials might withhold his future job placements if he spoke out.
        FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        Guess we need to separate the local union members from the national organization. This is a labor focused web site talking about labor issues. Not run by any one particular union, it isn't a union controlled web site that is trying to pump a particular message. It is an article about labor, where the factory, local union, and national union organization, all had some part to play. So this article is covering all of those issues, not trying to be all 'super pro union'.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        A reminder to the audience that Ford's labor unions voted to reduce their wages by like 30% back when Ford was struggling in 2009. A labor union WANTS to work, so they can make money. They aren't going to strike the second the first moldy crate comes in, because they want money. They will do their damndest to work within the system to solve things, because they worked very hard to build those resolution systems into their working contracts during the previous negotiation cycle. Union laborers didn't want to stop working, they wanted to stop breathing in mold.
- davorak 3y ago
  > "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. A definition from google "medieval" -> primitive or very old fashioned. The implication is that those running the operation have an old or primitive mindset or safety standards.
  - cptskippy 3y ago
    > The implication is that those running the operation have an old or primitive mindset or safety standards. What? That isn't at all what it said. > But under all the high-tech green fanfare, several construction workers, including some who wished to be anonymous, say the site has been gripped by mold and respiratory illness—medieval hazards that workers feel managers neglected in the pressure to quickly open the plant. They were contrasting the high tech and modern nature of the plant to the medieval hazard of mold. The assertion being that mold isn't a modern day problem. Mold, insects, vermin, and disease were common everyday problems in medieval times that were overshadowed by the more pressing needs around food scarcity and clean water.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    It’s a medical hazard, but the editor is as illiterate as the author.
    - davorak 3y ago
      > medical hazard Ha, ok that seems really likely now that it has been pointed out.
- arrakeenrevived 3y ago
  FWIW I agree with you. The title hardly makes sense to me as well. "Ford's Battery Flagship" - even after reading the article I'm still not sure what this is. "flagship" is used only in the title and nowhere else. Based on my knowledge of Ford, I would assume their "flagship" would be the F150, but this article seems to be talking about some sort of battery factory that a South Korean company is building? Similarly, "socked by mold sickness" is a weird phrase. Feels like an inappropriate use of "socked" here. If the project is delayed because workers are getting sick, just say that. The title strikes me as a failed attempt at clickbait, and immediately makes me distrustful of the rest of the article, which is confirmed by the "all over the place"ness that you mentioned as well.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    "Flagship" means important. The press release seems to indicate it's importance. https://corporate.ford.com/articles/electrification/blue-oval-city.html https://corporate.ford.com/articles/electrification/blue-ova... ""FORD TO LEAD AMERICA'S SHIFT TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES WITH NEW BLUEOVAL CITY MEGA CAMPUS IN TENNESSEE AND TWIN BATTERY PLANTS IN KENTUCKY; $11.4B INVESTMENT TO CREATE 11,000 JOBS AND POWER NEW LINEUP OF ADVANCED EVS FORD TO BRING ELECTRIC ZERO-EMISSION VEHICLES AT SCALE TO AMERICAN CUSTOMERS WITH THE LARGEST, MOST ADVANCED, MOST EFFICIENT AUTO PRODUCTION COMPLEX IN ITS 118-YEAR HISTORY""
    - stuaxo 3y ago
      Yes, flagship is pretty normal usage, very strange quibble to have.
      - ajmurmann 3y ago
        I don't think the word "flagship" is the issue. The issue is that no other noun follows. If this was "flagship factory" or "flagship truck" it would be much clearer. To me the headline wasn't clearer do to "flagship" being followed by "socked" which I am most commonly used to seeing as a noun rather than a verb, especially in a news article rather than a conversation in a pub.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  I kind of get the impression that it's another EV hit piece. The fact that the factory will be making EV batteries has nothing to do with the mold problems, yet the reader is constantly being reminded of it.
  - elevaet 3y ago
    I've been noticing a lot of these "EV hit pieces". What's going on with that? Is it organic? Are there nefarious actors (ahem ... oil?) trying to stem the tide? What's going on?
    - duxup 3y ago
      I'm not in on the hit piece theory here but I do think that anything novel-ish often gets mentioned no matter how relevant it is to a larger topic.
    - jimbob45 3y ago
      BRICS/OPEC has a very vested interest in making sure EVs never achieve deep market penetration.
      - wobbly_bush 3y ago
        BRICS and OPEC are two very different things. Except one country in BRICS, the remaining ones are oil importers. They would gladly get rid of that dependency for national security reasons alone.
    - natch 3y ago
      I have no inside info but it stands to reason that big oil, legacy auto, and short sellers of EV-associated stocks would not be opposed to negative coverage of EVs.
    - gruez 3y ago
      Given the pro-union affiliation of this publication that the parent commenter mentioned, as well as the fact that EVs take less labor to assemble and maintain, my guess would be that they're trying to protect their jobs.
- araes 3y ago
  Generally in the same place, just not for the same reasons. A lot of journalist writing is inherently sensationalistic, because the metric has become an ambulance chasing and gross out horror metric. Personally, have more issue with the automaton-like reactions of the workers. 1000 workers, who are holding fundraisers to help each other find other work, and recover from illnesses, smell mold so strong it "hits you when you walk by the plant, and yet almost no personal responsibility. Have to be forced to wear masks. Don't just buy bleach and nuke the area into oblivion. Boxes had large Do Not Bring Inside, boxes are brought inside. Obviously illegal behavior. Where's the documentation of provable illegalities? Every phone's got a camera with timestamps. (also a serious issue with the military barracks situation. You went home to this every night? Took years and a Reuters expose? [1]). However, still sympathetic. "Electrical workers complained to foremen." Objects replaced just prior to safety inspections. Months of mold complaints, largely ignored. 12 health or safety investigations, half closed, half limbo. Must be infuriating working in technician industries. Reuters investigation of SpaceX was basically a deja-vu story. "Bad safety results? Stop reporting." [2] These days it seems better to go to a journalist, than the safety agencies, they're far too financially motivated. "Good for Kentucky business. Die of mold? We'll give you a plaque somewhere, in a decade or two once the money's extracted." [1] https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/02/16/military-families-basing-housing-may-soon-be-able-withhold-rent-disputes.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/02/16/military-fami... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-m...
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    The Reuters SpaceX story is full of nonsense. Starting by claiming they had a scoop
- TylerE 3y ago
  Yes, this sort of writing is very common from heavily slanted/borderline propaganda sources. Strongertowns is the same way. Lots of scare words, minimal substance.
- hakdbha 3y ago
  [dead]
- samirillian 3y ago
  a) I like the language use. The title is punchy, and it makes you check it out just because you want to know what it means. Medieval hazards sticks with you. b) there’s not a lot of money in being a commie journalist so this is probably some volunteer. c) I live in Kentucky and had not heard about this. d) re Kentucky, this place is wet
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  > "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. Maybe. But the situation sounds unlike any modern workplace I know of: > Worker complaints piled up until, on December 8, Abel management hired the firm Environmental Testing & Consulting of Kentucky to take “limited samples” for mold. Their report, sent to Abel less than one week later, found seven types of mold inside the wooden crates, including three in “heavy” concentrations. It also noted an “intense mold odor” inside the containers. > To limit exposure, the report included a recommendation for handling the wooden boxes: “DO NOT PUT INSIDE.”
- cptskippy 3y ago
  > "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. The author was just trying to convey that these days we remediate mold issues, where as in medieval times mold was just something you lived with because you had bigger issues. They were trying to juxtapose the fact that the this was suppose to be a modern state of the art battery manufacturing facility with the fact that they were being told to just live with the mold. Imagine they popped open a crate and it was infested by rats. Would management have just told them to work around the rats?
- myaccount2131 3y ago
  The comment here is out of place, as the general point of the article is sufficiently said. I'm not sure why this is top comment, it's detractive of discussion. A better solution would be to summarize your findings, and state that the article was poorly written. 'Socking' the author is clearly anti-discussion, distracting, and not worth the toxicity other than a quick offhand remark to accompany an opinion that talks of the main topic at hand
- readyman 3y ago
  Labor Notes is pro workers. It's a very well-established and highly respected publication that advocates for strong unions (controlled by workers) over weak unions (controlled by bureaucrats).
jtriangle 3y ago
Doubly unfortunate, being that mold remediation on an item isn't terribly complicated or difficult, but mold remediation in-vivo, or in a structure, is much more complex. That's not to say hosing down hundreds of crates with biocide is great, it's not, but, it's certainly far better than what they're doing here...
- duxup 3y ago
  Seems like the factory wasn't even complete yet, so access to clean / deal with it should have been maybe a little easier at that point rather than later. Good opportunity get to every nook and cranny and etc.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  Totally, or paint them in fungal resistant paint from the factory, or ship them in steel containers...
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    > or paint them in fungal resistant paint from the factory Then you'd have to stop buying from the lowest bidder. Because it turns out sometimes the higher bids are paying for important stuff.
    - duxup 3y ago
      I recently did a big home remodel. Discovered the same thing. I chose far from the cheapest, but what they do standard was "extra" for a lot of other contractors.
rootusrootus 3y ago
Can mold cause a bacterial infection? Or are they trying too hard to connect the dots? Similarly, it seems like the rest of the article is filled with numbers that may sound significant on their own but I would like to see how they compare to normal. A certain number of people will get sick whether they were exposed to mold or not, with thousands of workers on site the number of illnesses will always be a good bit greater than zero.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  No, bacteria causes bacterial infections. Mold causes lots of other problems, and can be deadly
- datavirtue 3y ago
  It's attitudes like this that perpetuate injuries and death on job sites around the world. By all means, pontificate from your cozy,filtered and climate controlled environment. If a slight mildew issue broke out in your office all hell would break loose. All work would stop until everyone was remote and a hazmat mitigation company would be brought in by management after a few emails got around. Go on, explain to us why these workers should just suck it up.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > It's attitudes like this that perpetuate injuries and death on job sites around the world. I assure you, the safest industries in the world got that way because of data-driven solutions, not emotion. Go ahead, get angry from the comfort of your office, yell and scream about the injustices of the world. That's how we got to be so incredibly divided, so it must be the right way.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  The mold itself doesn't cause a bacterial infection, but it can encourage the conditions for a bacterial infection. Pneumonia would be the most well known example. Anecdotally, my understanding is the flu itself isn't what's dangerous to at risk populations. Its' the pneumonia that you're much more likely to get.
whycome 3y ago
Did Ford figure out their "unspecified quality issue" and actually resume production yet? Last I saw was it was halted in February. Is it possible it was related to this issue in terms of their battery production? https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-stops-shipments-2024-f-150-lightning-2024-02-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-s...
- Animats 3y ago
  Different plant. That's in Michigan. The one with mold is under construction in Kentucky.
stuaxo 3y ago
America needs some basic rights for workers, no sick leave you are just out.
- solardev 3y ago
  It's a bit surprising to me that the labor unions couldn't negotiate this, as some of the biggest / most powerful unions out there already. If even they can't, what chance do the rest of us have :/
  - wumeow 3y ago
    After a honeymoon period, labor unions usually become just another middleman.
    - solardev 3y ago
      The corruption angle I can believe (the sibling post), but "middleman" is kinda a weird way to think about it? In my experience, an un-unionized workplace doesn't mean you have more direct negotiation power. It generally means you have zero. Unions at least provide some collective bargaining power.
  - rokkitmensch 3y ago
    The major labor unions are just as corrupt in their own ways as the capital unions one'd expect them to be working against.
darknavi 3y ago
> Dugan and scores of others now believe they are in the midst of a health crisis at the site. “We don’t get sick pay,” Dugan said. “You’re sick, you’re out of luck.” There was a post yesterday slamming the CHIPS act for having too much D&I in which they referenced the "huge" costs of forcing construction firms to give full healthcare coverage (and more) to employees. This is a perfect example of how the market does not meet the bar without intervention.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  The slightly confusing thing to me is that there is already intervention here: it's a unionized workplace. Seems like the union should be doing better for its members here.
  - floydnoel 3y ago
    It's almost as if unions are just another power structure with their own goals. I've seen more stories of union corruption than I can count, and we can add this example to the pile. >>> Although Dugan, Shaffer, and other members say their union stewards on site helped press their concerns to management, they say that local and international IBEW officers who visited the facility scoffed at their concerns. Dugan says a local officer refused to file a grievance on his behalf about the mold in January. One worker requested to stay anonymous out of concern that union officials might withhold his future job placements if he spoke out. Officers with the IBEW local and district did not return requests for comment.
solardev 3y ago
Can we maybe change that title to something clearer? eg "Ford workers say they're sickened by mold in new battery factory"
mvdtnz 3y ago
Struggling to parse this title.
proee 3y ago
Certain types of plywood are a magnet for mold growth. The natural oils in the wood (like birch) plus certain types of glues that contain organic compounds are the perfect environment for mold to thrive. From my understanding, marine-grade plywoods are more resistant to mold growth, and of course, you could paint the plywood with mold-inhibiting paint. This is a supply chain issue that needs addressed at the source (supplier level). There are well known charts that define safe operating environments for temperature and humidity. If you go outside these bounds, its easy to calculate the number of days until an object develops mold. https://energyhandyman.com/knowledge-library/mold-chart-for-temperature-and-humidity-monitors/ https://energyhandyman.com/knowledge-library/mold-chart-for-...
- solardev 3y ago
  Could this be a like a covid thing, possibly, with a bunch of old untreated wood sitting around for a long time and finally getting used up?
090rf 3y ago
[dead]
verteu 3y ago
> Although Dugan, Shaffer, and other members say their union stewards on site helped press their concerns to management, they say that local and international IBEW officers who visited the facility scoffed at their concerns. Why did their own union scoff at the safety concerns?
- spaceguillotine 3y ago
  union leadership, esp the IBEW have a history of not actually caring about safety but of making sure they get their due, AFL-CIO affiliated unions were part of keeping communism out of america at any cost and that was it. https://inthesetimes.com/article/left-wing-union-afl-cio-imperialism https://inthesetimes.com/article/left-wing-union-afl-cio-imp... The CIA helped them rise to power and retain it while also taking away from the workers.
  - readyman 3y ago
    Exactly right. Refreshing to see someone in this thread knows their history.
  - lupire 3y ago
    The (extremely biased) article you cite doesn't even support your claim. It says that AFL-CIO supports American workers over non-American workers.
- floydnoel 3y ago
  Let's ask the reverse question also, why would the union do anything to help the workers? Do they get paid more in that case? Incentives are the answer to all these questions. There is no incentive for a union to care about safety concerns. they have a monopoly.
  - verteu 3y ago
    Every union officer is elected by the workers, so yes, they have an incentive to please them. Historically, unions have been responsible for a massive amount of health & safety improvements in the workplace.
forgetfreeman 3y ago
From the perspective of someone who's done formal mold abatement projects everything about this is deeply frustrating. PPE to work in a mold contaminated environment safely is inexpensive and ubiquitous. Likewise, the equipment and materials required to safely segregate mold contaminated materials from the larger working environment are inexpensive and simple to install. This could have been avoided.
qwertyuiop_ 3y ago
When Dugan walked in, huge wooden boxes containing battery-making machines, largely shipped from overseas, were laid across the mile-long factory floor. Black streaks on those wooden boxes, plus the smell, immediately raised alarm bells for workers. Has anyone thought about nefarious foreign actors introducing biological agents to stymie the build ?
mhb 3y ago
[flagged]
- sanderjd 3y ago
  I honestly have no idea anymore who you're making fun of with a comment like this. It's truly amazing how farcical that whole culture war became. Good riddance to all that nonsense!
NEETPILLED 3y ago
The absolute state of American manufacturing
lupire 3y ago
Several other articles by professional news outlets using more common American English language:. https://www.google.com/search?q=ford%20battery%20factory%20mold https://www.google.com/search?q=ford%20battery%20factory%20m...

Interesting. I will say I find the writing a little off putting. Felt like they wanted to rope in every name, company and person involved here. "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. Clearly this publication is pro labor unions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Notes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Notes), but it is strange that they push this narrative and note how people in the labor union were working in these poor conditions: "many have required their union workers to build on 12-hour shifts, seven days a week. Despite months of worker concerns, managers waited until early February to take basic precautions against the mold—precautions that might slow construction" Gee thanks labor unions for helping out? This article is all over the place. There's a story here that IMO could have been told, and accomplished the same goals without the internal weirdness of the article sort of pointing back at itself.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Think your response is similarly all over the place. "Despite months of worker concerns, managers waited until early February to take basic precautions against the mold" Doesn't this indicate that the union was raising concerns and needed to push for action? Mold is no joke. I knew a guy that died after working in moldy conditions. He was old, and pneumonia.
- duxup 3y ago
  I wouldn't assume that.
  - darby_eight 3y ago
    ...why not? The article seems to clearly imply it to my eye.
    - duxup 3y ago
      I would think a publication would have explicitly said so in order to as they say "advocates for a revitalization of the labor movement". I got no problem with that goal, it's just a strange article to try to do that with.
      - stuaxo 3y ago
        Not sure why that is - you can see from the first paragraph that there are problems that are the result of poor workers rights.
  - replygirl 3y ago
    the NLRA/B don't cover managers, and union leadership is a separate role from on-the-job management. for the readership of a magazine targeting current or prospective union members and leadership, this is fundamental knowledge, so it won't ever be spelled out in an article it's also worth clarifying that labor notes is _pro labor_, not necessarily _pro union_, and especially not _pro one specific type of union (e.g. industrial vs craft)_. when a labor union fails its members, this is one of the canonical publications covering it
    - duxup 3y ago
      If the article only works if you approach it as preaching to the choir ... maybe it does make sense. But it certainly makes it a poor article if they're "advocates for a revitalization of the labor movement" beyond the the rank and file union choir who would assume the union took action. You'd think they'd want to appeal to others too. For the record, I don't so much care what the union did or didn't do, my comment was more about the article itself.
      - replygirl 3y ago
        right, i'm not taking a side either, just saying your comment showed you lacked the context to understand what you were reading. as you stated and defended. you made a misinterpretation that can only happen if you _don't know the basics what a union is_ — important context for reading a labor publication targeting labor people.
    - Animats 3y ago
      Right. It's also assuming knowledge about the auto industry. Ford is building what they call "Blue Oval City" near Glendale, Kentucky, an all-new complex of plants. [1] https://bestneighborhood.org/race-in-glendale-ky/ https://bestneighborhood.org/race-in-glendale-ky/
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    I think what you are missing is that Labor Unions are people that are generally trying to do the right thing. So were probably working for awhile with the mold, and raising concerns, but as time goes by, and issues are ignored, you have to start complaining louder and louder. Then by the time someone listens, it seems like you are screaming about nothing.
    - arrakeenrevived 3y ago
      The article directly says the opposite, and reinforces what GP comment was saying about the union not being helpful: > Although Dugan, Shaffer, and other members say their union stewards on site helped press their concerns to management, they say that local and international IBEW officers who visited the facility scoffed at their concerns. Dugan says a local officer refused to file a grievance on his behalf about the mold in January. One worker requested to stay anonymous out of concern that union officials might withhold his future job placements if he spoke out.
      - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        Guess we need to separate the local union members from the national organization. This is a labor focused web site talking about labor issues. Not run by any one particular union, it isn't a union controlled web site that is trying to pump a particular message. It is an article about labor, where the factory, local union, and national union organization, all had some part to play. So this article is covering all of those issues, not trying to be all 'super pro union'.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      A reminder to the audience that Ford's labor unions voted to reduce their wages by like 30% back when Ford was struggling in 2009. A labor union WANTS to work, so they can make money. They aren't going to strike the second the first moldy crate comes in, because they want money. They will do their damndest to work within the system to solve things, because they worked very hard to build those resolution systems into their working contracts during the previous negotiation cycle. Union laborers didn't want to stop working, they wanted to stop breathing in mold.
davorak 3y ago
> "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. A definition from google "medieval" -> primitive or very old fashioned. The implication is that those running the operation have an old or primitive mindset or safety standards.
- cptskippy 3y ago
  > The implication is that those running the operation have an old or primitive mindset or safety standards. What? That isn't at all what it said. > But under all the high-tech green fanfare, several construction workers, including some who wished to be anonymous, say the site has been gripped by mold and respiratory illness—medieval hazards that workers feel managers neglected in the pressure to quickly open the plant. They were contrasting the high tech and modern nature of the plant to the medieval hazard of mold. The assertion being that mold isn't a modern day problem. Mold, insects, vermin, and disease were common everyday problems in medieval times that were overshadowed by the more pressing needs around food scarcity and clean water.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  It’s a medical hazard, but the editor is as illiterate as the author.
  - davorak 3y ago
    > medical hazard Ha, ok that seems really likely now that it has been pointed out.
arrakeenrevived 3y ago
FWIW I agree with you. The title hardly makes sense to me as well. "Ford's Battery Flagship" - even after reading the article I'm still not sure what this is. "flagship" is used only in the title and nowhere else. Based on my knowledge of Ford, I would assume their "flagship" would be the F150, but this article seems to be talking about some sort of battery factory that a South Korean company is building? Similarly, "socked by mold sickness" is a weird phrase. Feels like an inappropriate use of "socked" here. If the project is delayed because workers are getting sick, just say that. The title strikes me as a failed attempt at clickbait, and immediately makes me distrustful of the rest of the article, which is confirmed by the "all over the place"ness that you mentioned as well.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  "Flagship" means important. The press release seems to indicate it's importance. https://corporate.ford.com/articles/electrification/blue-oval-city.html https://corporate.ford.com/articles/electrification/blue-ova... ""FORD TO LEAD AMERICA'S SHIFT TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES WITH NEW BLUEOVAL CITY MEGA CAMPUS IN TENNESSEE AND TWIN BATTERY PLANTS IN KENTUCKY; $11.4B INVESTMENT TO CREATE 11,000 JOBS AND POWER NEW LINEUP OF ADVANCED EVS FORD TO BRING ELECTRIC ZERO-EMISSION VEHICLES AT SCALE TO AMERICAN CUSTOMERS WITH THE LARGEST, MOST ADVANCED, MOST EFFICIENT AUTO PRODUCTION COMPLEX IN ITS 118-YEAR HISTORY""
  - stuaxo 3y ago
    Yes, flagship is pretty normal usage, very strange quibble to have.
    - ajmurmann 3y ago
      I don't think the word "flagship" is the issue. The issue is that no other noun follows. If this was "flagship factory" or "flagship truck" it would be much clearer. To me the headline wasn't clearer do to "flagship" being followed by "socked" which I am most commonly used to seeing as a noun rather than a verb, especially in a news article rather than a conversation in a pub.
dotancohen 3y ago
I kind of get the impression that it's another EV hit piece. The fact that the factory will be making EV batteries has nothing to do with the mold problems, yet the reader is constantly being reminded of it.
- elevaet 3y ago
  I've been noticing a lot of these "EV hit pieces". What's going on with that? Is it organic? Are there nefarious actors (ahem ... oil?) trying to stem the tide? What's going on?
  - duxup 3y ago
    I'm not in on the hit piece theory here but I do think that anything novel-ish often gets mentioned no matter how relevant it is to a larger topic.
  - jimbob45 3y ago
    BRICS/OPEC has a very vested interest in making sure EVs never achieve deep market penetration.
    - wobbly_bush 3y ago
      BRICS and OPEC are two very different things. Except one country in BRICS, the remaining ones are oil importers. They would gladly get rid of that dependency for national security reasons alone.
  - natch 3y ago
    I have no inside info but it stands to reason that big oil, legacy auto, and short sellers of EV-associated stocks would not be opposed to negative coverage of EVs.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Given the pro-union affiliation of this publication that the parent commenter mentioned, as well as the fact that EVs take less labor to assemble and maintain, my guess would be that they're trying to protect their jobs.
araes 3y ago
Generally in the same place, just not for the same reasons. A lot of journalist writing is inherently sensationalistic, because the metric has become an ambulance chasing and gross out horror metric. Personally, have more issue with the automaton-like reactions of the workers. 1000 workers, who are holding fundraisers to help each other find other work, and recover from illnesses, smell mold so strong it "hits you when you walk by the plant, and yet almost no personal responsibility. Have to be forced to wear masks. Don't just buy bleach and nuke the area into oblivion. Boxes had large Do Not Bring Inside, boxes are brought inside. Obviously illegal behavior. Where's the documentation of provable illegalities? Every phone's got a camera with timestamps. (also a serious issue with the military barracks situation. You went home to this every night? Took years and a Reuters expose? [1]). However, still sympathetic. "Electrical workers complained to foremen." Objects replaced just prior to safety inspections. Months of mold complaints, largely ignored. 12 health or safety investigations, half closed, half limbo. Must be infuriating working in technician industries. Reuters investigation of SpaceX was basically a deja-vu story. "Bad safety results? Stop reporting." [2] These days it seems better to go to a journalist, than the safety agencies, they're far too financially motivated. "Good for Kentucky business. Die of mold? We'll give you a plaque somewhere, in a decade or two once the money's extracted." [1] https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/02/16/military-families-basing-housing-may-soon-be-able-withhold-rent-disputes.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/02/16/military-fami... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-m...
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  The Reuters SpaceX story is full of nonsense. Starting by claiming they had a scoop
TylerE 3y ago
Yes, this sort of writing is very common from heavily slanted/borderline propaganda sources. Strongertowns is the same way. Lots of scare words, minimal substance.
hakdbha 3y ago
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samirillian 3y ago
a) I like the language use. The title is punchy, and it makes you check it out just because you want to know what it means. Medieval hazards sticks with you. b) there’s not a lot of money in being a commie journalist so this is probably some volunteer. c) I live in Kentucky and had not heard about this. d) re Kentucky, this place is wet
h0l0cube 3y ago
> "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. Maybe. But the situation sounds unlike any modern workplace I know of: > Worker complaints piled up until, on December 8, Abel management hired the firm Environmental Testing & Consulting of Kentucky to take “limited samples” for mold. Their report, sent to Abel less than one week later, found seven types of mold inside the wooden crates, including three in “heavy” concentrations. It also noted an “intense mold odor” inside the containers. > To limit exposure, the report included a recommendation for handling the wooden boxes: “DO NOT PUT INSIDE.”
cptskippy 3y ago
> "medieval hazards" I don't even know what that means but mold is a thing in the modern area too. The author was just trying to convey that these days we remediate mold issues, where as in medieval times mold was just something you lived with because you had bigger issues. They were trying to juxtapose the fact that the this was suppose to be a modern state of the art battery manufacturing facility with the fact that they were being told to just live with the mold. Imagine they popped open a crate and it was infested by rats. Would management have just told them to work around the rats?
myaccount2131 3y ago
The comment here is out of place, as the general point of the article is sufficiently said. I'm not sure why this is top comment, it's detractive of discussion. A better solution would be to summarize your findings, and state that the article was poorly written. 'Socking' the author is clearly anti-discussion, distracting, and not worth the toxicity other than a quick offhand remark to accompany an opinion that talks of the main topic at hand
readyman 3y ago
Labor Notes is pro workers. It's a very well-established and highly respected publication that advocates for strong unions (controlled by workers) over weak unions (controlled by bureaucrats).

jtriangle 3y ago

Doubly unfortunate, being that mold remediation on an item isn't terribly complicated or difficult, but mold remediation in-vivo, or in a structure, is much more complex. That's not to say hosing down hundreds of crates with biocide is great, it's not, but, it's certainly far better than what they're doing here...

duxup 3y ago
Seems like the factory wasn't even complete yet, so access to clean / deal with it should have been maybe a little easier at that point rather than later. Good opportunity get to every nook and cranny and etc.
iancmceachern 3y ago
Totally, or paint them in fungal resistant paint from the factory, or ship them in steel containers...
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  > or paint them in fungal resistant paint from the factory Then you'd have to stop buying from the lowest bidder. Because it turns out sometimes the higher bids are paying for important stuff.
  - duxup 3y ago
    I recently did a big home remodel. Discovered the same thing. I chose far from the cheapest, but what they do standard was "extra" for a lot of other contractors.

rootusrootus 3y ago

Can mold cause a bacterial infection? Or are they trying too hard to connect the dots? Similarly, it seems like the rest of the article is filled with numbers that may sound significant on their own but I would like to see how they compare to normal. A certain number of people will get sick whether they were exposed to mold or not, with thousands of workers on site the number of illnesses will always be a good bit greater than zero.

iancmceachern 3y ago
No, bacteria causes bacterial infections. Mold causes lots of other problems, and can be deadly
datavirtue 3y ago
It's attitudes like this that perpetuate injuries and death on job sites around the world. By all means, pontificate from your cozy,filtered and climate controlled environment. If a slight mildew issue broke out in your office all hell would break loose. All work would stop until everyone was remote and a hazmat mitigation company would be brought in by management after a few emails got around. Go on, explain to us why these workers should just suck it up.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > It's attitudes like this that perpetuate injuries and death on job sites around the world. I assure you, the safest industries in the world got that way because of data-driven solutions, not emotion. Go ahead, get angry from the comfort of your office, yell and scream about the injustices of the world. That's how we got to be so incredibly divided, so it must be the right way.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
The mold itself doesn't cause a bacterial infection, but it can encourage the conditions for a bacterial infection. Pneumonia would be the most well known example. Anecdotally, my understanding is the flu itself isn't what's dangerous to at risk populations. Its' the pneumonia that you're much more likely to get.

whycome 3y ago

Did Ford figure out their "unspecified quality issue" and actually resume production yet? Last I saw was it was halted in February. Is it possible it was related to this issue in terms of their battery production? https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-stops-shipments-2024-f-150-lightning-2024-02-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-s...

Animats 3y ago
Different plant. That's in Michigan. The one with mold is under construction in Kentucky.

stuaxo 3y ago

America needs some basic rights for workers, no sick leave you are just out.

solardev 3y ago
It's a bit surprising to me that the labor unions couldn't negotiate this, as some of the biggest / most powerful unions out there already. If even they can't, what chance do the rest of us have :/
- wumeow 3y ago
  After a honeymoon period, labor unions usually become just another middleman.
  - solardev 3y ago
    The corruption angle I can believe (the sibling post), but "middleman" is kinda a weird way to think about it? In my experience, an un-unionized workplace doesn't mean you have more direct negotiation power. It generally means you have zero. Unions at least provide some collective bargaining power.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  The major labor unions are just as corrupt in their own ways as the capital unions one'd expect them to be working against.

darknavi 3y ago

> Dugan and scores of others now believe they are in the midst of a health crisis at the site. “We don’t get sick pay,” Dugan said. “You’re sick, you’re out of luck.” There was a post yesterday slamming the CHIPS act for having too much D&I in which they referenced the "huge" costs of forcing construction firms to give full healthcare coverage (and more) to employees. This is a perfect example of how the market does not meet the bar without intervention.

sanderjd 3y ago
The slightly confusing thing to me is that there is already intervention here: it's a unionized workplace. Seems like the union should be doing better for its members here.
- floydnoel 3y ago
  It's almost as if unions are just another power structure with their own goals. I've seen more stories of union corruption than I can count, and we can add this example to the pile. >>> Although Dugan, Shaffer, and other members say their union stewards on site helped press their concerns to management, they say that local and international IBEW officers who visited the facility scoffed at their concerns. Dugan says a local officer refused to file a grievance on his behalf about the mold in January. One worker requested to stay anonymous out of concern that union officials might withhold his future job placements if he spoke out. Officers with the IBEW local and district did not return requests for comment.

solardev 3y ago

Can we maybe change that title to something clearer? eg "Ford workers say they're sickened by mold in new battery factory"

mvdtnz 3y ago

Struggling to parse this title.

proee 3y ago

Certain types of plywood are a magnet for mold growth. The natural oils in the wood (like birch) plus certain types of glues that contain organic compounds are the perfect environment for mold to thrive. From my understanding, marine-grade plywoods are more resistant to mold growth, and of course, you could paint the plywood with mold-inhibiting paint. This is a supply chain issue that needs addressed at the source (supplier level). There are well known charts that define safe operating environments for temperature and humidity. If you go outside these bounds, its easy to calculate the number of days until an object develops mold. https://energyhandyman.com/knowledge-library/mold-chart-for-temperature-and-humidity-monitors/ https://energyhandyman.com/knowledge-library/mold-chart-for-...

solardev 3y ago
Could this be a like a covid thing, possibly, with a bunch of old untreated wood sitting around for a long time and finally getting used up?

090rf 3y ago

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verteu 3y ago

> Although Dugan, Shaffer, and other members say their union stewards on site helped press their concerns to management, they say that local and international IBEW officers who visited the facility scoffed at their concerns. Why did their own union scoff at the safety concerns?

spaceguillotine 3y ago
union leadership, esp the IBEW have a history of not actually caring about safety but of making sure they get their due, AFL-CIO affiliated unions were part of keeping communism out of america at any cost and that was it. https://inthesetimes.com/article/left-wing-union-afl-cio-imperialism https://inthesetimes.com/article/left-wing-union-afl-cio-imp... The CIA helped them rise to power and retain it while also taking away from the workers.
- readyman 3y ago
  Exactly right. Refreshing to see someone in this thread knows their history.
- lupire 3y ago
  The (extremely biased) article you cite doesn't even support your claim. It says that AFL-CIO supports American workers over non-American workers.
floydnoel 3y ago
Let's ask the reverse question also, why would the union do anything to help the workers? Do they get paid more in that case? Incentives are the answer to all these questions. There is no incentive for a union to care about safety concerns. they have a monopoly.
- verteu 3y ago
  Every union officer is elected by the workers, so yes, they have an incentive to please them. Historically, unions have been responsible for a massive amount of health & safety improvements in the workplace.

forgetfreeman 3y ago

From the perspective of someone who's done formal mold abatement projects everything about this is deeply frustrating. PPE to work in a mold contaminated environment safely is inexpensive and ubiquitous. Likewise, the equipment and materials required to safely segregate mold contaminated materials from the larger working environment are inexpensive and simple to install. This could have been avoided.

qwertyuiop_ 3y ago

When Dugan walked in, huge wooden boxes containing battery-making machines, largely shipped from overseas, were laid across the mile-long factory floor. Black streaks on those wooden boxes, plus the smell, immediately raised alarm bells for workers. Has anyone thought about nefarious foreign actors introducing biological agents to stymie the build ?

mhb 3y ago

[flagged]

sanderjd 3y ago
I honestly have no idea anymore who you're making fun of with a comment like this. It's truly amazing how farcical that whole culture war became. Good riddance to all that nonsense!

NEETPILLED 3y ago

The absolute state of American manufacturing

lupire 3y ago

Several other articles by professional news outlets using more common American English language:. https://www.google.com/search?q=ford%20battery%20factory%20mold https://www.google.com/search?q=ford%20battery%20factory%20m...