4 ms·

>This guy who wrote about subversive cat women and robot cities and weapons made from angry psychic weasels and mind control sex between people who are literall

>This guy who wrote about subversive cat women and robot cities and weapons made from angry psychic weasels and mind control sex between people who are literally floating naked inside a chamber of flames – he had also codified the U.S. military’s approach to psyops at the dawn of the Cold War? Really?? That part is not super surprising. There was a ton of para-psychological, New Age woo-woo happening within military circles of the 60s, 70s, 80s. Men who stare at Goats is a fun book that delves into some of the really bizarre psychological experiments the US military ran and a lot of pop culture draws from that intersection, Metal Gear Solid for example. There was a thing called the "Human Potential Movement" that originated in 60s hippie circles that somehow made it's way to the military as well and influenced some apparent programs trying to create superior soldiers. It's pretty hilarious and a little bit concerning that these ideas were sometimes as popular within these institutions as they were in the conspiracy theories about them.

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the_gipsy 3y ago
These institutions always appear ultra-serious from the outside, but in the inside they are just an anthill of idiots running around in absurd bureaucracy.
- anthk 3y ago
  Heh, the ultimate Spanish slapstick comic book called "Mortadelo y Filemón", which first began parodying Sherlock Holmes and, next, James Bond, it's a more proper depiction about who idiotic state agencies where in Spain in the 70s-80's, if not worldwide. Imagine a more idiotic duo than Don Quixote and Sancho Panza but in a modernish set, a la Supeagent 86, where the Spanish CIA-like agency it's filled with dumb, incompetent agents and superiors everywhere fighting outdated technology and with an 'IT'/scientic lab with a mad doctor proposing crazy inventions to fight the crime... And the IRL depiction wasn't that far fetched... In the Arpanet days, a lot of people walked 'inside' the net as if your aunt Gertrude walked inside an official secret bulding carelessly without too much effort...
  - foobarian 3y ago
    That sounds a lot like the Italian Alan Ford comic.
    - anthk 3y ago
      Close, but MyF began in the 50's. Later, with the first James Bond films, the UFO craze, mad/futuristic technology an such, MyF stepped up from being private detectives to become full members of an parodic agency. And, as Alan Ford, the critizised the Spanish society/politics as well.
anthk 3y ago
>Metal Gear Solid And maybe the OGs Metal Gear 1 and 2 under MSX, which now have proper English translations to be played anywhere. OpenMSX it's a good emulator. For Spanish speakers/readers, there's a short,half hilarious scifi/fantasy/triller/comedy novel called 'Más fría que la guerra' (colder than [the] war), which begins with Woodstock hippies summoning dark entities from who knows where, a la Lovecraft. You'll get these military/agency tropes and lots more. BTW, for Latin Americans, CESID = basically old CIA-like state agency from Spain.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  Guess it's a really popular pun to pair with that premise: http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
  - anthk 3y ago
    Indeed; the novel it's set in an alternate 80's with a cold war still going on. The books begins with a Francoist Spain which never got into democracy because of the paranormal events of the 60's in the USA, and then the world opens up making the main characters roam between different places around the globe.
mistermann 3y ago
> It's pretty hilarious and a little bit concerning that these ideas were sometimes as popular within these institutions as they were in the conspiracy theories about them. Can you expand on what you have in mind here? This seems like the polar opposite of my take on it.
- Vecr 3y ago
  Yeah, imagine if they didn't check and it turned out to work somehow. Various biological stuff would have probably been a better bet, I think they took the psy stuff too far in some places.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> and a lot of pop culture draws from that intersection, Metal Gear Solid for example metal gear solid and later are best thought of as ninja stories that put on a tom clancy veneer. that a bunch of psy-ops and other initiatives kind of line up with that genre all the better, but when they didn't kojima just sort of handwaved them away. like there was a vampire guy in MGS2, and sexy robot ladies in MGS4. "nanomachines, son!"
teddyh 3y ago
I have a different take. People are suprisingly capable of doublethink. Much fun is made of the prevalence of furries among IT administrators, but consider that many of these people also work at the likes of Google, Facebook, Amazon, the Pentagon, and the NSA. People convince themselves of whatever they feel they need to believe.
- t0bia_s 3y ago
  Another example of doublethinking would be anticommunists and grant recipients in one person. Or democrat supporting censorship/desinformation regulations.
  - teddyh 3y ago
    I agree with your latter example, but not the former. It is perfectly reasonably be against some government policy while at the same time choosing to benefit from that policy. To claim otherwise is to be Mister Gotcha: <https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/>
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      Then you support centrally planed economics that ruin a free market. Benefit from system that you are against sounds like hypocrisy. Also, could be morally unacceptable to benefit from money of involuntary collected money - taxes.
      - teddyh 3y ago
        Let me get this straight. You say that just because I believe someone can be against a government policy while at the same time benefiting from that policy, that I therefore ”support centrally planed economics that ruin a free market”? That’s quite the leap. I benefit from society all the time. I buy cheap food from the store, and the low prices are a benefit I get from societal policies which I do not agree with. To avoid hypocrisy, would I have to grow my own food?
1oooqooq 3y ago
some things never change. nsa today is full of furies. pretty much all the staff out of Hawaii (analysts) and Langley (liaisons) is all furies and anime girls avatars on the employee chat thing i can't name.
- patcon 3y ago
  My expectation is that this has to do with there being a critical mass of autistic or otherwise neurodivergent persons who work in these spaces. There are many interests more common to people on the autistic spectrum. Gender and identity is experienced as much more performative and arbitrary by many on the spectrum. https://www.wesa.fm/science-health-tech/2019-07-10/for-some-with-autism-furry-culture-offers-comfort-and-acceptance https://www.wesa.fm/science-health-tech/2019-07-10/for-some-... See also: the literature on trans and gender-nonconforming experience of those with autism See also: prevalence of neuro-atypical ppl in the nordic larping community (an unscripted in-depth long-form roleplay experience) https://nordiclarp.org/2021/11/29/atypical-journeys-of-neurodivergent-larpers/ https://nordiclarp.org/2021/11/29/atypical-journeys-of-neuro... > I grew up difficult. I was a difficult child and a difficult teenager. > The world was a maze. I felt I was the only one without a map. > Everyone seems to have figured their way out. > So I built my own world, full of all the things I liked. > I had an interest in magic, spells, witches. A specific one. > I’ve been labeled unhinged and crazy. > Because > I thought animals were better than people, > I walked bare feets, > My face was strange, > Because I looked for magic.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  pedantry: Alecto, Megaera, and Tisiphone are furies. Belle, Jessica Rabbit, and Spongebob are furries.
  - 1oooqooq 3y ago
    q.e.d.
lupire 3y ago
Including the psychological torture research the proto-CIA conducted at Harvard on a teenage boy named Ted Kaczynski, which made him into the "Unabomber"

deleted 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

the_gipsy 3y ago

These institutions always appear ultra-serious from the outside, but in the inside they are just an anthill of idiots running around in absurd bureaucracy.

anthk 3y ago
Heh, the ultimate Spanish slapstick comic book called "Mortadelo y Filemón", which first began parodying Sherlock Holmes and, next, James Bond, it's a more proper depiction about who idiotic state agencies where in Spain in the 70s-80's, if not worldwide. Imagine a more idiotic duo than Don Quixote and Sancho Panza but in a modernish set, a la Supeagent 86, where the Spanish CIA-like agency it's filled with dumb, incompetent agents and superiors everywhere fighting outdated technology and with an 'IT'/scientic lab with a mad doctor proposing crazy inventions to fight the crime... And the IRL depiction wasn't that far fetched... In the Arpanet days, a lot of people walked 'inside' the net as if your aunt Gertrude walked inside an official secret bulding carelessly without too much effort...
- foobarian 3y ago
  That sounds a lot like the Italian Alan Ford comic.
  - anthk 3y ago
    Close, but MyF began in the 50's. Later, with the first James Bond films, the UFO craze, mad/futuristic technology an such, MyF stepped up from being private detectives to become full members of an parodic agency. And, as Alan Ford, the critizised the Spanish society/politics as well.

anthk 3y ago

>Metal Gear Solid And maybe the OGs Metal Gear 1 and 2 under MSX, which now have proper English translations to be played anywhere. OpenMSX it's a good emulator. For Spanish speakers/readers, there's a short,half hilarious scifi/fantasy/triller/comedy novel called 'Más fría que la guerra' (colder than [the] war), which begins with Woodstock hippies summoning dark entities from who knows where, a la Lovecraft. You'll get these military/agency tropes and lots more. BTW, for Latin Americans, CESID = basically old CIA-like state agency from Spain.

Apocryphon 3y ago
Guess it's a really popular pun to pair with that premise: http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
- anthk 3y ago
  Indeed; the novel it's set in an alternate 80's with a cold war still going on. The books begins with a Francoist Spain which never got into democracy because of the paranormal events of the 60's in the USA, and then the world opens up making the main characters roam between different places around the globe.

mistermann 3y ago

> It's pretty hilarious and a little bit concerning that these ideas were sometimes as popular within these institutions as they were in the conspiracy theories about them. Can you expand on what you have in mind here? This seems like the polar opposite of my take on it.

Vecr 3y ago
Yeah, imagine if they didn't check and it turned out to work somehow. Various biological stuff would have probably been a better bet, I think they took the psy stuff too far in some places.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> and a lot of pop culture draws from that intersection, Metal Gear Solid for example metal gear solid and later are best thought of as ninja stories that put on a tom clancy veneer. that a bunch of psy-ops and other initiatives kind of line up with that genre all the better, but when they didn't kojima just sort of handwaved them away. like there was a vampire guy in MGS2, and sexy robot ladies in MGS4. "nanomachines, son!"

teddyh 3y ago

I have a different take. People are suprisingly capable of doublethink. Much fun is made of the prevalence of furries among IT administrators, but consider that many of these people also work at the likes of Google, Facebook, Amazon, the Pentagon, and the NSA. People convince themselves of whatever they feel they need to believe.

t0bia_s 3y ago
Another example of doublethinking would be anticommunists and grant recipients in one person. Or democrat supporting censorship/desinformation regulations.
- teddyh 3y ago
  I agree with your latter example, but not the former. It is perfectly reasonably be against some government policy while at the same time choosing to benefit from that policy. To claim otherwise is to be Mister Gotcha: <https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/>
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    Then you support centrally planed economics that ruin a free market. Benefit from system that you are against sounds like hypocrisy. Also, could be morally unacceptable to benefit from money of involuntary collected money - taxes.
    - teddyh 3y ago
      Let me get this straight. You say that just because I believe someone can be against a government policy while at the same time benefiting from that policy, that I therefore ”support centrally planed economics that ruin a free market”? That’s quite the leap. I benefit from society all the time. I buy cheap food from the store, and the low prices are a benefit I get from societal policies which I do not agree with. To avoid hypocrisy, would I have to grow my own food?

1oooqooq 3y ago

some things never change. nsa today is full of furies. pretty much all the staff out of Hawaii (analysts) and Langley (liaisons) is all furies and anime girls avatars on the employee chat thing i can't name.

patcon 3y ago
My expectation is that this has to do with there being a critical mass of autistic or otherwise neurodivergent persons who work in these spaces. There are many interests more common to people on the autistic spectrum. Gender and identity is experienced as much more performative and arbitrary by many on the spectrum. https://www.wesa.fm/science-health-tech/2019-07-10/for-some-with-autism-furry-culture-offers-comfort-and-acceptance https://www.wesa.fm/science-health-tech/2019-07-10/for-some-... See also: the literature on trans and gender-nonconforming experience of those with autism See also: prevalence of neuro-atypical ppl in the nordic larping community (an unscripted in-depth long-form roleplay experience) https://nordiclarp.org/2021/11/29/atypical-journeys-of-neurodivergent-larpers/ https://nordiclarp.org/2021/11/29/atypical-journeys-of-neuro... > I grew up difficult. I was a difficult child and a difficult teenager. > The world was a maze. I felt I was the only one without a map. > Everyone seems to have figured their way out. > So I built my own world, full of all the things I liked. > I had an interest in magic, spells, witches. A specific one. > I’ve been labeled unhinged and crazy. > Because > I thought animals were better than people, > I walked bare feets, > My face was strange, > Because I looked for magic.
082349872349872 3y ago
pedantry: Alecto, Megaera, and Tisiphone are furies. Belle, Jessica Rabbit, and Spongebob are furries.
- 1oooqooq 3y ago
  q.e.d.

lupire 3y ago

Including the psychological torture research the proto-CIA conducted at Harvard on a teenage boy named Ted Kaczynski, which made him into the "Unabomber"