10 ms·

A science fiction obsession led me to psychological war

180 points by MaysonL 3y ago

Animats 3y ago
"Pre-order ... now!" It's mostly an ad. "The Ballad of Lost C'mell" is probably Cordwainer Smith's best piece.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  > I was only able to cram a few of these gems into my book, so I've got a treasure trove of stuff here that I've been dying to talk about. It apparently has more content than the book.
  - randallsquared 3y ago
    Well, some different content, hopefully.
- defrost 3y ago
  You missed an oppotunity to decry Scammers Live in Vain ;) Seriously though, it was a decent read with material on Linebarger I hadn't seen before, the various photos and his life in China were new to me despite having skimmed other bio's in the past and having real life book copies of his work under several of his names.
fractallyte 3y ago
In his introduction to the book, The Best of Cordwainer Smith, J J Pierce recounts a story about Linebarger: "While in Korea, Linebarger masterminded the surrender of thousands of Chinese troops who considered it shameful to give up their arms. He drafted leaflets explaining how the soldiers could surrender by shouting the Chinese words for ‘love’, ‘duty’, ‘humanity’ and ‘virtue’ – words that happened, when pronounced in that order, to sound like “I surrender” in English. He considered this act the single most worthwhile thing he had done in his life." Further analysis here: https://languagehat.com/chinese-endangered/ https://languagehat.com/chinese-endangered/
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  Linebarger is also the source of my anecdote about making it easier for german soldiers to surrender by giving them a "Surrender Form" to fill out and hand to Allied troops, with all the standard bureaucratic fields they were accustomed to in civilian life. (His Psychological Warfare is well worth reading; not only does he warn the reader up front that PSYWAR operators are not always to be taken at face value, but I believe both 1948 and 1954 versions can be easily be read between the lines as promoting racial integration in the DoD; compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981 )
  - abrookewood 3y ago
    I was intrigued and looked that up. Found this which was very interesting: Paul M.A. Linebarger mentions the theory in Psychological Warfare, Infantry Journal Press, Washington D.C., 1948. He says: "Germans liked things done in an official and formal manner, even in the midst of chaos, catastrophe and defeat. The Allied obliged, and gave the Germans various forms of very official looking ‘surrender passes.’ One is printed in red and has banknote-type engraving which makes it resemble a soap-premium coupon." https://www.psywarrior.com/GermanSCP.html https://www.psywarrior.com/GermanSCP.html
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      Looks like I'd misremembered and "General Eisenhower's personal signature" was the ticket, not having a form to fill out. Sorry! > British expert Lee Richards told me that the picture itself is propaganda. By 1943 the M unit only sent "black propaganda" into Germany and the picture is probably meant to disguise that fact and imply that they just ballooned harmless white leaflets. In fact, he adds "Looking closely at a higher resolution version of the photo you can see that just the top leaflet is the Safe Conduct, beneath it are the forged Skorpion newspapers." "White" propaganda is when you say stuff you wrote is yours; "black" when you claim it comes from the other guys. Linebarger goes at length into the problem of "source attribution", which, however difficult it was in the 1940s, can only be even more so nowadays.
    - 3y ago
082349872349872 3y ago
> ...to persuade his fellow-countrymen that their customs and traditions were not the universal laws of reason, but only the peculiarly fine development of one civilization 坐井觀天。 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chinese_Stories/The_frog_of_the_well https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chinese_Stories/The_frog_of_th...
- anthk 3y ago
  Well', there's a golden rule. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
  - darby_eight 3y ago
    Our current day is so dominated by nationalist rhetoric that I can't imagine what this would even look like on an international stage. It sometimes seems like there's always a convenient excuse to put state politics ahead of humanity itself....
    - 6510 3y ago
      Companies use to be the same complete with executions and slavery. We now have a clumsy but workable set of rules for that. The only thing that gets in the way of making the same for government is apathy and nihilism. We don't believe we each have an important role to play. If we ever do it will be much like nationalism.
      - lupire 3y ago
        Government is the only reason that companies use less slavery now in the past.
        t0bia_s 3y ago
        What kind of slavery you talking about?
non-chalad 3y ago
Great song by Blue Oyster Cult.
Barrin92 3y ago
>This guy who wrote about subversive cat women and robot cities and weapons made from angry psychic weasels and mind control sex between people who are literally floating naked inside a chamber of flames – he had also codified the U.S. military’s approach to psyops at the dawn of the Cold War? Really?? That part is not super surprising. There was a ton of para-psychological, New Age woo-woo happening within military circles of the 60s, 70s, 80s. Men who stare at Goats is a fun book that delves into some of the really bizarre psychological experiments the US military ran and a lot of pop culture draws from that intersection, Metal Gear Solid for example. There was a thing called the "Human Potential Movement" that originated in 60s hippie circles that somehow made it's way to the military as well and influenced some apparent programs trying to create superior soldiers. It's pretty hilarious and a little bit concerning that these ideas were sometimes as popular within these institutions as they were in the conspiracy theories about them.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- the_gipsy 3y ago
  These institutions always appear ultra-serious from the outside, but in the inside they are just an anthill of idiots running around in absurd bureaucracy.
  - anthk 3y ago
    Heh, the ultimate Spanish slapstick comic book called "Mortadelo y Filemón", which first began parodying Sherlock Holmes and, next, James Bond, it's a more proper depiction about who idiotic state agencies where in Spain in the 70s-80's, if not worldwide. Imagine a more idiotic duo than Don Quixote and Sancho Panza but in a modernish set, a la Supeagent 86, where the Spanish CIA-like agency it's filled with dumb, incompetent agents and superiors everywhere fighting outdated technology and with an 'IT'/scientic lab with a mad doctor proposing crazy inventions to fight the crime... And the IRL depiction wasn't that far fetched... In the Arpanet days, a lot of people walked 'inside' the net as if your aunt Gertrude walked inside an official secret bulding carelessly without too much effort...
incomingpain 3y ago
In my non-fiction book, this was 1 chapter. Something which I showed was the huge difference between what you see from the USA, Germany/Poland and Canada. Canada doesnt have a real cyber army; but was caught pushing propaganda: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/psychological-warfare-influence-campaign-canadian-armed-forces-1.6079084 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/psychological-warfare-influ... Canada for the most part is ultra exposed to hostile foreign nation state propaganda. Whereas USA's cyber army is protecting against this. the problem with unfiltered internet is that bad actors across the world can simply post upon social media and cause problems. You need some sort of defense against this, but Canada is too broke to afford a legitimate cyber army unlike the rest of the world. One of the interesting things that happened when I was writing this book. I shocked a ton of people with a random prediction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Paul_Pelosi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Paul_Pelosi When this happened, I made the early prediction this guy was going to be Canadian. In fact, I could have predicted he would be from BC but I didn't. There was absolutely nothing early on to suggest this and people called me crazy. But this is exactly what's happening. Foreign nation states unopposed by cyber armies are convincing people online to do attacks like this.
- pjc50 3y ago
  > Canada for the most part is ultra exposed to hostile foreign nation state propaganda. Whereas USA's cyber army is protecting against this. Can you explain what this might consist of? On the face of it, the US is a pretty difficult place to simply remove posts, and has a massive domestic propaganda industry.
  - incomingpain 3y ago
    > On the face of it, the US is a pretty difficult place to simply remove posts Elon Musk exposed that removing content was routine by a large list of US agencies as part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Files https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Files Zuckerburg publicly confirmed that the same thing is occuring at facebook. Especially in context of the Biden laptop story for example. This seems to be true here on HN, which is rather surprising. I expected HN to be too small potatoes for the US government. The important legislation to look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_Foreign_Propaganda_and_Disinformation_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_Foreign_Propaganda_... >In both the House and Senate the bill was included in the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2017. So this is a department of defense effort; cyber command obviously. Which is quite interesting because in the twitter files, they never mention DoD at all. Most focus was on the FBI. Obviously a factor of national security you might consider? >and has a massive domestic propaganda industry. You have to be careful with this though. What's the attribution here? Snowden never revealed this right, surveillance is obviously true but not necessarily propaganda. There is perhaps the CIA mockingbird program which is still operating, but much smaller then during the cold war; so it's difficult to suggest this is massive. A big one though started under Obama isn't so public to be able to make those conclusions. We are simply seeing the consequences and collapse of the USA journalism because of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2013#Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Modernization_Act_of_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization... It's important to note, this is fully bipartisan supported. Seeing from a Canadian point of view where this isn't happening, it's a much worse situation. >You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks. Welp, got shadow banned on HN again for this post. I also see I'm censored and quite negative on the parent comment... i wonder who it was lol... none of my other posts have gone negative votes. I always find it funny when I get shadowbanned on HN and I'm obviously not posting too fast. guess I'll be taking another break from HN?
thimkerbell 3y ago
"what Stories Are Weapons is about: how psyops designed for use against national adversaries became weapons in a culture war between people who live in the United States."
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
suoduandao3 3y ago
If American propaganda owes so much to Scifi, I wonder why optimistic visions of the future have gone out of vogue to such a great degree. Endemic conservatism in the military arm of the deep state?
- KittenInABox 3y ago
  People are easier to manipulate when they're frightened.
- pjc50 3y ago
  Optimistic visions pretty much ended with the 1971 oil crisis, in much the same way as all those graphs showing wage divergence starting then. It became apparent that progress was not linear and only upwards, and there would be significant downsides for at least some groups. You don't have to presume that it's all propaganda.
  - suoduandao3 3y ago
    right, but I'm wondering specifically about the part that is propaganda.
    - theendisney 3y ago
      They change star trek into a space [war] opera.
      - krapp 3y ago
        TOS was literally the Cold War and Vietnam in space. TNG brought us a world-consuming machine hivemind, a military bureaucracy in which admirals being corrupt or incompetent was so common it's become a meme, and the Maquis. DS9 obviously had the Dominion War. Enterprise had the Xindi/temporal cold war nonsense. And I'm pretty sure Janeway is guilty of war crimes all across the Delta Quadrant. Star Trek was always space opera, and has always involved war. Not because of "the deep state" or propaganda, but because pew pew lasers make for compelling television.
nonbirithm 3y ago
I once played an indie JRPG that took inspiration from Cordwainer Smith and some other authors. It's untranslated but the Santaclara drug is a usable item that acts like a Phoenix Down. https://andymente.moo.jp/html/game2/rs/rs.htm https://andymente.moo.jp/html/game2/rs/rs.htm
grzeshru 3y ago
> "The artistic and cultural aspect of writing is readily converted to propaganda usage," Linebarger wrote in the book's new conclusion. And how!
samatman 3y ago
> Psyops are also, fundamentally, lies Psyops are, fundamentally, propaganda. Some of the most devastating propaganda is rubbing the enemy's face in truths they would prefer not to face. It is more accurate to say that propaganda, and therefore psyops, are indifferent to the truth. In many ways this makes it more dangerous than lies.
- t0bia_s 3y ago
  More known as "public realations". In 30's Edward Barneys thought it would be more convincing to use this term after "propaganda" become linked to Nazis.
lusus_naturae 3y ago
Myth and folklore has always been used as an instrument for defining culture and reinforcing it. Nothing is a better example of this than the myriad of Bibles produced during Charlemagne's rein, and these manuscripts are the progenitors of the English bible. A source for the curious, https://www.purecambridgetext.com/post/charlemagne-and-the-english-bible https://www.purecambridgetext.com/post/charlemagne-and-the-e... So what does this author consider “psyops”, exactly? I assume anything that subverts the culture being maintained by the ruling class in the current time for a given place.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  > So what does this author consider “psyops”, exactly? Linebarger was employed by the US Army during WWII with a Psychological Warfare MOS and wrote a textbook (with the obvious name, available in the obvious places) on the subject; after that, having been among the group that "lost China", he updated his textbook with lessons learned. (but yes, subverting the culture* which the other guys' ruling class maintains to keep their subjects fighting on their behalf is an obvious part of the job; Linebarger gives biblical examples demonstrating this line of work, and the Cyrus Cylinder fits in his model. He was himself part of the class depicted in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPPpjU1UeAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPPpjU1UeAo and, at least by the 1954 version of his book, was aware how this may have damaged his side's credibility in the eyes of the modal chinese peasant) * culture explains the stasis hypothesised in 1984: because all three geopowers have superficially-different but structurally-identical socioeconomics, they have a shared interest in not attempting to subvert each other deeply, only competing superficially.
suoduandao3 3y ago
Question: are you drawing on oral accounts of the 'meme magic wars' of 2016? I find it a fascinating piece of history and very relevant to the subject you're writing about.

180 points by MaysonL 3y ago

Animats 3y ago

"Pre-order ... now!" It's mostly an ad. "The Ballad of Lost C'mell" is probably Cordwainer Smith's best piece.

drewcoo 3y ago
> I was only able to cram a few of these gems into my book, so I've got a treasure trove of stuff here that I've been dying to talk about. It apparently has more content than the book.
- randallsquared 3y ago
  Well, some different content, hopefully.
defrost 3y ago
You missed an oppotunity to decry Scammers Live in Vain ;) Seriously though, it was a decent read with material on Linebarger I hadn't seen before, the various photos and his life in China were new to me despite having skimmed other bio's in the past and having real life book copies of his work under several of his names.

fractallyte 3y ago

In his introduction to the book, The Best of Cordwainer Smith, J J Pierce recounts a story about Linebarger: "While in Korea, Linebarger masterminded the surrender of thousands of Chinese troops who considered it shameful to give up their arms. He drafted leaflets explaining how the soldiers could surrender by shouting the Chinese words for ‘love’, ‘duty’, ‘humanity’ and ‘virtue’ – words that happened, when pronounced in that order, to sound like “I surrender” in English. He considered this act the single most worthwhile thing he had done in his life." Further analysis here: https://languagehat.com/chinese-endangered/ https://languagehat.com/chinese-endangered/

082349872349872 3y ago
Linebarger is also the source of my anecdote about making it easier for german soldiers to surrender by giving them a "Surrender Form" to fill out and hand to Allied troops, with all the standard bureaucratic fields they were accustomed to in civilian life. (His Psychological Warfare is well worth reading; not only does he warn the reader up front that PSYWAR operators are not always to be taken at face value, but I believe both 1948 and 1954 versions can be easily be read between the lines as promoting racial integration in the DoD; compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981 )
- abrookewood 3y ago
  I was intrigued and looked that up. Found this which was very interesting: Paul M.A. Linebarger mentions the theory in Psychological Warfare, Infantry Journal Press, Washington D.C., 1948. He says: "Germans liked things done in an official and formal manner, even in the midst of chaos, catastrophe and defeat. The Allied obliged, and gave the Germans various forms of very official looking ‘surrender passes.’ One is printed in red and has banknote-type engraving which makes it resemble a soap-premium coupon." https://www.psywarrior.com/GermanSCP.html https://www.psywarrior.com/GermanSCP.html
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    Looks like I'd misremembered and "General Eisenhower's personal signature" was the ticket, not having a form to fill out. Sorry! > British expert Lee Richards told me that the picture itself is propaganda. By 1943 the M unit only sent "black propaganda" into Germany and the picture is probably meant to disguise that fact and imply that they just ballooned harmless white leaflets. In fact, he adds "Looking closely at a higher resolution version of the photo you can see that just the top leaflet is the Safe Conduct, beneath it are the forged Skorpion newspapers." "White" propaganda is when you say stuff you wrote is yours; "black" when you claim it comes from the other guys. Linebarger goes at length into the problem of "source attribution", which, however difficult it was in the 1940s, can only be even more so nowadays.
  - 3y ago

082349872349872 3y ago

> ...to persuade his fellow-countrymen that their customs and traditions were not the universal laws of reason, but only the peculiarly fine development of one civilization 坐井觀天。 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chinese_Stories/The_frog_of_the_well https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chinese_Stories/The_frog_of_th...

anthk 3y ago
Well', there's a golden rule. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
- darby_eight 3y ago
  Our current day is so dominated by nationalist rhetoric that I can't imagine what this would even look like on an international stage. It sometimes seems like there's always a convenient excuse to put state politics ahead of humanity itself....
  - 6510 3y ago
    Companies use to be the same complete with executions and slavery. We now have a clumsy but workable set of rules for that. The only thing that gets in the way of making the same for government is apathy and nihilism. We don't believe we each have an important role to play. If we ever do it will be much like nationalism.
    - lupire 3y ago
      Government is the only reason that companies use less slavery now in the past.
      - t0bia_s 3y ago
        What kind of slavery you talking about?

non-chalad 3y ago

Great song by Blue Oyster Cult.

Barrin92 3y ago

>This guy who wrote about subversive cat women and robot cities and weapons made from angry psychic weasels and mind control sex between people who are literally floating naked inside a chamber of flames – he had also codified the U.S. military’s approach to psyops at the dawn of the Cold War? Really?? That part is not super surprising. There was a ton of para-psychological, New Age woo-woo happening within military circles of the 60s, 70s, 80s. Men who stare at Goats is a fun book that delves into some of the really bizarre psychological experiments the US military ran and a lot of pop culture draws from that intersection, Metal Gear Solid for example. There was a thing called the "Human Potential Movement" that originated in 60s hippie circles that somehow made it's way to the military as well and influenced some apparent programs trying to create superior soldiers. It's pretty hilarious and a little bit concerning that these ideas were sometimes as popular within these institutions as they were in the conspiracy theories about them.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
the_gipsy 3y ago
These institutions always appear ultra-serious from the outside, but in the inside they are just an anthill of idiots running around in absurd bureaucracy.
- anthk 3y ago
  Heh, the ultimate Spanish slapstick comic book called "Mortadelo y Filemón", which first began parodying Sherlock Holmes and, next, James Bond, it's a more proper depiction about who idiotic state agencies where in Spain in the 70s-80's, if not worldwide. Imagine a more idiotic duo than Don Quixote and Sancho Panza but in a modernish set, a la Supeagent 86, where the Spanish CIA-like agency it's filled with dumb, incompetent agents and superiors everywhere fighting outdated technology and with an 'IT'/scientic lab with a mad doctor proposing crazy inventions to fight the crime... And the IRL depiction wasn't that far fetched... In the Arpanet days, a lot of people walked 'inside' the net as if your aunt Gertrude walked inside an official secret bulding carelessly without too much effort...

incomingpain 3y ago

In my non-fiction book, this was 1 chapter. Something which I showed was the huge difference between what you see from the USA, Germany/Poland and Canada. Canada doesnt have a real cyber army; but was caught pushing propaganda: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/psychological-warfare-influence-campaign-canadian-armed-forces-1.6079084 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/psychological-warfare-influ... Canada for the most part is ultra exposed to hostile foreign nation state propaganda. Whereas USA's cyber army is protecting against this. the problem with unfiltered internet is that bad actors across the world can simply post upon social media and cause problems. You need some sort of defense against this, but Canada is too broke to afford a legitimate cyber army unlike the rest of the world. One of the interesting things that happened when I was writing this book. I shocked a ton of people with a random prediction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Paul_Pelosi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Paul_Pelosi When this happened, I made the early prediction this guy was going to be Canadian. In fact, I could have predicted he would be from BC but I didn't. There was absolutely nothing early on to suggest this and people called me crazy. But this is exactly what's happening. Foreign nation states unopposed by cyber armies are convincing people online to do attacks like this.

pjc50 3y ago
> Canada for the most part is ultra exposed to hostile foreign nation state propaganda. Whereas USA's cyber army is protecting against this. Can you explain what this might consist of? On the face of it, the US is a pretty difficult place to simply remove posts, and has a massive domestic propaganda industry.
- incomingpain 3y ago
  > On the face of it, the US is a pretty difficult place to simply remove posts Elon Musk exposed that removing content was routine by a large list of US agencies as part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Files https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Files Zuckerburg publicly confirmed that the same thing is occuring at facebook. Especially in context of the Biden laptop story for example. This seems to be true here on HN, which is rather surprising. I expected HN to be too small potatoes for the US government. The important legislation to look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_Foreign_Propaganda_and_Disinformation_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countering_Foreign_Propaganda_... >In both the House and Senate the bill was included in the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2017. So this is a department of defense effort; cyber command obviously. Which is quite interesting because in the twitter files, they never mention DoD at all. Most focus was on the FBI. Obviously a factor of national security you might consider? >and has a massive domestic propaganda industry. You have to be careful with this though. What's the attribution here? Snowden never revealed this right, surveillance is obviously true but not necessarily propaganda. There is perhaps the CIA mockingbird program which is still operating, but much smaller then during the cold war; so it's difficult to suggest this is massive. A big one though started under Obama isn't so public to be able to make those conclusions. We are simply seeing the consequences and collapse of the USA journalism because of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2013#Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Modernization_Act_of_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization... It's important to note, this is fully bipartisan supported. Seeing from a Canadian point of view where this isn't happening, it's a much worse situation. >You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks. Welp, got shadow banned on HN again for this post. I also see I'm censored and quite negative on the parent comment... i wonder who it was lol... none of my other posts have gone negative votes. I always find it funny when I get shadowbanned on HN and I'm obviously not posting too fast. guess I'll be taking another break from HN?

thimkerbell 3y ago

"what Stories Are Weapons is about: how psyops designed for use against national adversaries became weapons in a culture war between people who live in the United States."

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

suoduandao3 3y ago

If American propaganda owes so much to Scifi, I wonder why optimistic visions of the future have gone out of vogue to such a great degree. Endemic conservatism in the military arm of the deep state?

KittenInABox 3y ago
People are easier to manipulate when they're frightened.
pjc50 3y ago
Optimistic visions pretty much ended with the 1971 oil crisis, in much the same way as all those graphs showing wage divergence starting then. It became apparent that progress was not linear and only upwards, and there would be significant downsides for at least some groups. You don't have to presume that it's all propaganda.
- suoduandao3 3y ago
  right, but I'm wondering specifically about the part that is propaganda.
  - theendisney 3y ago
    They change star trek into a space [war] opera.
    - krapp 3y ago
      TOS was literally the Cold War and Vietnam in space. TNG brought us a world-consuming machine hivemind, a military bureaucracy in which admirals being corrupt or incompetent was so common it's become a meme, and the Maquis. DS9 obviously had the Dominion War. Enterprise had the Xindi/temporal cold war nonsense. And I'm pretty sure Janeway is guilty of war crimes all across the Delta Quadrant. Star Trek was always space opera, and has always involved war. Not because of "the deep state" or propaganda, but because pew pew lasers make for compelling television.

nonbirithm 3y ago

I once played an indie JRPG that took inspiration from Cordwainer Smith and some other authors. It's untranslated but the Santaclara drug is a usable item that acts like a Phoenix Down. https://andymente.moo.jp/html/game2/rs/rs.htm https://andymente.moo.jp/html/game2/rs/rs.htm

grzeshru 3y ago

> "The artistic and cultural aspect of writing is readily converted to propaganda usage," Linebarger wrote in the book's new conclusion. And how!

samatman 3y ago

> Psyops are also, fundamentally, lies Psyops are, fundamentally, propaganda. Some of the most devastating propaganda is rubbing the enemy's face in truths they would prefer not to face. It is more accurate to say that propaganda, and therefore psyops, are indifferent to the truth. In many ways this makes it more dangerous than lies.

t0bia_s 3y ago
More known as "public realations". In 30's Edward Barneys thought it would be more convincing to use this term after "propaganda" become linked to Nazis.

lusus_naturae 3y ago

Myth and folklore has always been used as an instrument for defining culture and reinforcing it. Nothing is a better example of this than the myriad of Bibles produced during Charlemagne's rein, and these manuscripts are the progenitors of the English bible. A source for the curious, https://www.purecambridgetext.com/post/charlemagne-and-the-english-bible https://www.purecambridgetext.com/post/charlemagne-and-the-e... So what does this author consider “psyops”, exactly? I assume anything that subverts the culture being maintained by the ruling class in the current time for a given place.

082349872349872 3y ago
> So what does this author consider “psyops”, exactly? Linebarger was employed by the US Army during WWII with a Psychological Warfare MOS and wrote a textbook (with the obvious name, available in the obvious places) on the subject; after that, having been among the group that "lost China", he updated his textbook with lessons learned. (but yes, subverting the culture* which the other guys' ruling class maintains to keep their subjects fighting on their behalf is an obvious part of the job; Linebarger gives biblical examples demonstrating this line of work, and the Cyrus Cylinder fits in his model. He was himself part of the class depicted in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPPpjU1UeAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPPpjU1UeAo and, at least by the 1954 version of his book, was aware how this may have damaged his side's credibility in the eyes of the modal chinese peasant) * culture explains the stasis hypothesised in 1984: because all three geopowers have superficially-different but structurally-identical socioeconomics, they have a shared interest in not attempting to subvert each other deeply, only competing superficially.

suoduandao3 3y ago

Question: are you drawing on oral accounts of the 'meme magic wars' of 2016? I find it a fascinating piece of history and very relevant to the subject you're writing about.