8 ms·

Blaming Airbnb and other short term rental systems for lack of stock is nothing more than a bandaid to the real problem: not building enough housing. Small town

Blaming Airbnb and other short term rental systems for lack of stock is nothing more than a bandaid to the real problem: not building enough housing. Small towns could easily make this a non issue by allowing slight densification, but scapegoats are easier to deal with than root causes.

kiba 3y ago
If it works to make homes more available, then it works, but yes the solution requires actual construction.
davidw 3y ago
100%. It's at least nice to see places realize that "supply and demand" are real for housing, but at the end of the day if you're in a tourist oriented area, you need tourist housing too. Build some more hotels, build a lot more housing for residents. Build SRO's, shrink lot sizes and fix condo liability laws for ownership opportunities, legalize small 4/6/8plexes everywhere. Remove parking minimums. There are a lot of levers to pull...
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  So basically allow shitty dwellings to be thrown together for the 'servant classes', while making sure the itinerant wealthy have the pick of the nicer places.
  - davidw 3y ago
    That's not what I wrote. New housing tends to be nicer than older housing, and right now the option for people working in these place is often to commute in over long distances or basically 'hot bunk' in some cramped housing. Things are bad right now and more housing, especially housing dedicated to people living and working in an area, would help some people. At least it's an option they have rather than just getting priced out completely.
    - somewhereoutth 3y ago
      I'm all for 'right-sized' housing, of good quality, and without nonsense like parking minimums - but you did mention SROs (fine for students, but otherwise far from a good way to live). The easiest way to fix housing right now is to ban STRs. The supply available to long term renters / home buyers would increase dramatically, quite literally over night.
      - davidw 3y ago
        I mentioned a lot of different things. SRO's are a good fit for some people. Not for others.
tony_cannistra 3y ago
I'm not going to argue the point that housing supply is woefully inadequate - you're right about that. But, at the same time, these city and town governments have an obligation to sustain a reasonable amount of housing for their residents. AirBNB is of course not itself the issue (though one might argue that their aggressive anti-community lobbying is). I believe that town administrators have a duty to severely curtail the presence of STR businesses like AirBNB in their towns as one of the several paths to maintaining a healthy community with adequate housing.
etchalon 3y ago
Housing isn't built overnight, and land is not unlimited.
wvenable 3y ago
If only we could build some really dense buildings just for tourists to rent with just individual rooms (with bathrooms), a little fridge maybe, and some amenities like pools and gyms. Imagine how much of this problem that would solve.
- sickofparadox 3y ago
  If only we could build anything at all! Texas is going to grow to be the largest population state in the Union because every other one in contention decided they didn't want to build anything at all!
- digging 3y ago
  (more?) hotel rooms need kitchenettes, or at least an option for rooms with them. That's something you typically get in an AirBNB and typically don't get in a hotel, and it makes a big difference if you're not planning to eat out for every meal.
  - sbarre 3y ago
    This is a good point. When we travelled in Europe last summer 2 out of our 4 hotels (one in France and one in Switzerland) had kitchens in them, and it made a huge difference for a 5-6 day stay.. I've only seen this on rare occasions in North America
- JoshTriplett 3y ago
  If only we had a range of options for people to choose from, rather than assuming one solution will satisfy everyone.
  - sbarre 3y ago
    If only some of those options weren't wrecking communities and driving up housing costs for the locals!
  - angmarsbane 3y ago
    I like this idea, break up and segment demand. We build 55+ communities with rules about who can buy and live there. Why can't we build housing that only available to people with on-site local jobs? Or housing that you can only buy into if you have children (so families can live near other families)?
undersuit 3y ago
Housing is long term. Build more short term units like hotels.
clutchdude 3y ago
I think some discussion is warranted - an unoccupied house still cost infrastructure dollars. The tradeoff for those infrastructure investments is usually individual(s) who participates in some degree with their community and city. An AirBNB takes up most of the same cost of infrastructure with the community footing the bill.
bee_rider 3y ago
Lots of tourists seem to be part of an exclusive club of people who visit this authentic small town by the sea-side. It’s a contradiction, if you pander to it your town is inauthentic, if you don’t people complain that you don’t build enough. Towns should build sacrificial fake downtowns and really pour on the Disneyland vibes just to get tourists to bugger off.
nradov 3y ago
There also appears to be some sort of market failure or structural inefficiency in the hotel industry. AirBnB is clearly meeting a demand for larger units to accommodate groups or families travelling together. But in many areas the only hotel room options are a single room with 1 king size or 2 queen size beds. You can't get a suite or even guaranteed connecting rooms at any price! Could someone explain why the hotel industry often doesn't even try to compete?
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  Because it’s cheaper to lobby for stuff like this and pretend it’s a grassroots endeavour? I agree, better hotels is the solution, but we couldn’t force a private company to build actually good hotels that cater to modern expectations now could we? /s
- jimbokun 3y ago
  My guess: requires a ton of upfront capital to build those kinds of accommodations to compete with renting out existing homes.
ufmace 3y ago
> slight densification I don't think this is seeing the issue the right way. Building sufficient housing to reduce the pure free-market price of temporary / hotel stays to a level where housing is still accessible to locals is likely to permanently change the character of many locations. Perhaps from a quiet mountain town to Disney World. IMO, the residents of such towns, and other potentially attractive locations, have the right to keep their community the way it is rather than be swamped by tourists and high-rises to house them. It is likely better to regulate the short-term housing volume instead, such that the free-market price of that housing goes high enough to reduce the demand to a level that the community feels is consistent with maintaining its character.
- davidw 3y ago
  Pricing everyone out 'changes the character' of it too, and quite radically. It's just different from the physical characteristics that are easy to see. Change is a constant, you just have to figure out what form it takes.

kiba 3y ago

If it works to make homes more available, then it works, but yes the solution requires actual construction.

davidw 3y ago

100%. It's at least nice to see places realize that "supply and demand" are real for housing, but at the end of the day if you're in a tourist oriented area, you need tourist housing too. Build some more hotels, build a lot more housing for residents. Build SRO's, shrink lot sizes and fix condo liability laws for ownership opportunities, legalize small 4/6/8plexes everywhere. Remove parking minimums. There are a lot of levers to pull...

somewhereoutth 3y ago
So basically allow shitty dwellings to be thrown together for the 'servant classes', while making sure the itinerant wealthy have the pick of the nicer places.
- davidw 3y ago
  That's not what I wrote. New housing tends to be nicer than older housing, and right now the option for people working in these place is often to commute in over long distances or basically 'hot bunk' in some cramped housing. Things are bad right now and more housing, especially housing dedicated to people living and working in an area, would help some people. At least it's an option they have rather than just getting priced out completely.
  - somewhereoutth 3y ago
    I'm all for 'right-sized' housing, of good quality, and without nonsense like parking minimums - but you did mention SROs (fine for students, but otherwise far from a good way to live). The easiest way to fix housing right now is to ban STRs. The supply available to long term renters / home buyers would increase dramatically, quite literally over night.
    - davidw 3y ago
      I mentioned a lot of different things. SRO's are a good fit for some people. Not for others.

tony_cannistra 3y ago

I'm not going to argue the point that housing supply is woefully inadequate - you're right about that. But, at the same time, these city and town governments have an obligation to sustain a reasonable amount of housing for their residents. AirBNB is of course not itself the issue (though one might argue that their aggressive anti-community lobbying is). I believe that town administrators have a duty to severely curtail the presence of STR businesses like AirBNB in their towns as one of the several paths to maintaining a healthy community with adequate housing.

etchalon 3y ago

Housing isn't built overnight, and land is not unlimited.

wvenable 3y ago

If only we could build some really dense buildings just for tourists to rent with just individual rooms (with bathrooms), a little fridge maybe, and some amenities like pools and gyms. Imagine how much of this problem that would solve.

sickofparadox 3y ago
If only we could build anything at all! Texas is going to grow to be the largest population state in the Union because every other one in contention decided they didn't want to build anything at all!
digging 3y ago
(more?) hotel rooms need kitchenettes, or at least an option for rooms with them. That's something you typically get in an AirBNB and typically don't get in a hotel, and it makes a big difference if you're not planning to eat out for every meal.
- sbarre 3y ago
  This is a good point. When we travelled in Europe last summer 2 out of our 4 hotels (one in France and one in Switzerland) had kitchens in them, and it made a huge difference for a 5-6 day stay.. I've only seen this on rare occasions in North America
JoshTriplett 3y ago
If only we had a range of options for people to choose from, rather than assuming one solution will satisfy everyone.
- sbarre 3y ago
  If only some of those options weren't wrecking communities and driving up housing costs for the locals!
- angmarsbane 3y ago
  I like this idea, break up and segment demand. We build 55+ communities with rules about who can buy and live there. Why can't we build housing that only available to people with on-site local jobs? Or housing that you can only buy into if you have children (so families can live near other families)?

undersuit 3y ago

Housing is long term. Build more short term units like hotels.

clutchdude 3y ago

I think some discussion is warranted - an unoccupied house still cost infrastructure dollars. The tradeoff for those infrastructure investments is usually individual(s) who participates in some degree with their community and city. An AirBNB takes up most of the same cost of infrastructure with the community footing the bill.

bee_rider 3y ago

Lots of tourists seem to be part of an exclusive club of people who visit this authentic small town by the sea-side. It’s a contradiction, if you pander to it your town is inauthentic, if you don’t people complain that you don’t build enough. Towns should build sacrificial fake downtowns and really pour on the Disneyland vibes just to get tourists to bugger off.

nradov 3y ago

There also appears to be some sort of market failure or structural inefficiency in the hotel industry. AirBnB is clearly meeting a demand for larger units to accommodate groups or families travelling together. But in many areas the only hotel room options are a single room with 1 king size or 2 queen size beds. You can't get a suite or even guaranteed connecting rooms at any price! Could someone explain why the hotel industry often doesn't even try to compete?

simonbarker87 3y ago
Because it’s cheaper to lobby for stuff like this and pretend it’s a grassroots endeavour? I agree, better hotels is the solution, but we couldn’t force a private company to build actually good hotels that cater to modern expectations now could we? /s
jimbokun 3y ago
My guess: requires a ton of upfront capital to build those kinds of accommodations to compete with renting out existing homes.

ufmace 3y ago

> slight densification I don't think this is seeing the issue the right way. Building sufficient housing to reduce the pure free-market price of temporary / hotel stays to a level where housing is still accessible to locals is likely to permanently change the character of many locations. Perhaps from a quiet mountain town to Disney World. IMO, the residents of such towns, and other potentially attractive locations, have the right to keep their community the way it is rather than be swamped by tourists and high-rises to house them. It is likely better to regulate the short-term housing volume instead, such that the free-market price of that housing goes high enough to reduce the demand to a level that the community feels is consistent with maintaining its character.

davidw 3y ago
Pricing everyone out 'changes the character' of it too, and quite radically. It's just different from the physical characteristics that are easy to see. Change is a constant, you just have to figure out what form it takes.