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This is not compatible with AirTags in any way, no? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity for a common standard? Or is there one?

by nikeee 3y ago

accrual 3y ago
I don't know the answer but I agree this tech should be standardized. Over time there will be a massive network of phones and tags capable of finding each other, but it's silly to bifurcate it such that you might not find your device because nobody on the "correct" network is nearby.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Couldn't agree more – just like it's quite silly to not be able to "AirDrop" a photo to an Android device, even though Bluetooth could do it just fine 20 years ago from a Nokia to an Ericsson or Motorola.
FateOfNations 3y ago
Apple and Google have agreed on a standard for the anti-stalking functionality. Everything else is still separate.
kelnos 3y ago
Oh sure, it would be a great opportunity, but the idea of Apple voluntarily interoperating with anyone else on most things is just funny to think about. Google isn't significantly better on that metric, of course, but I feel like it's often in Google's business interests to interoperate more often than it is in Apple's.
- MBCook 3y ago
  Yep. They never adopted or pushed USB-C (it was on laptops for years), Thunderbolt, SCSI, USB, Ethernet, HDMI, WiFi, Bluetooth, FireWire…
  - lightbritefight 3y ago
    It's unclear if you are being sarcastic or not. Apple adopted USB C on their phones because the EU compelled them to. They tend to oppose standards they aren't already using.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      Bull. That’s why I put the comment in parentheses. They had already switched their laptops to all USB-C many years ago. And iPad Pros. I think the iPad Air and iPad (no name) switched as well. There were also strong rumblings Apple was going to release the USB-C iPhones when the rule was passed. > They tend to oppose standards they aren't already using. You’re kidding right? Then explain USB. Or Thunderbolt. Of every other thing I listed above. Apple didn’t invent any of them and open them. They were all existing standards.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        So you're saying that's what they wanted to do all along, it just took them almost ten years, and it just happened to neatly coincide with the EU regulation as well? Sure, and they're now allowing game streaming apps and retro emulators on iOS because that's what they always knew was best for the world anyway. What a coincidence (with the DMA, in that case)! > Apple didn’t invent any of them and open them. They were all existing standards. Counterpoint: Magsafe. They had USB-C and went back to something proprietary. Another counterpoint: Thunderbolt wasn't an open standard until very recently, and I can only imagine that Intel gave Apple some heavy discounts on the controller chips used (or even their main CPUs) to push the standard. Apple doesn't always hate standards and interoperability, but they will absolutely try to push their proprietary protocols and interfaces whenever it's in their business interest.
        MBCook 3y ago
        USB-C didn’t exist when they went to Lightning, it wasn’t an option. The fact all their other products were moving seems to indicate they’d move to USB-C on the iPhone as well. Rumors had them working on it for years. Now maybe it would have come out this year and not last. MagSafe: they added something back. You can still charge with USB-C. Works fine, I do it. Thunderbolt: that wasn’t Apple. Intel invented it and Apple put it to use. I have no idea if it’s open or closed, that’s my fault. What I meant was it wasn’t an Apple invention. Besides, what else had that kind of bandwidth at the time in a cable? It’s not like there was some common better thing they shunned.
- shuckles 3y ago
  Apple's Find My spec has been available for 3rd party adopters for years.
  - kuschku 3y ago
    Only for third party tags, not phone apps, though?
    - shuckles 3y ago
      That’s fair. It’s unclear whether they’d allow 3p apps to query their servers to locate devices per the spec.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  What? Google is generally a lot better on interoperability compared to Apple. Just look at which company has their apps on which platforms.
lxgr 3y ago
Of course it isn't. The time of interoperable standards in consumer devices is long past. Bluetooth used to support file transfers from device to device on feature- and early smartphones no matter the brand; now there's AirDrop (and maybe sometimes Google Nearby, but only if the humidity and lunar phase is just right). In home audio streaming, there was once DLNA; now there's AirPlay and Google Cast. We have two mutually incompatible walled gardens, and while life within them is admittedly nicer than in a world of poorly-implemented standards, the walls are getting higher by the day.
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  Bluetooth file transfer was always nearly useless in my experience, airdrop was somewhat revolutionary in that it actually worked reliably most of the time
  - lxgr 3y ago
    For me, reliability has been similar. I will say that it is much faster, though (no wonder – hundreds of Mbit/s over 802.11 vs. 2 Mbit/s over Bluetooth EDR). UX is much better too. But would it kill them to just support both? I’d take sometimes janky, always slow transfers to Android over having to WhatsApp photos to somebody literally next to me any day.
    - Shawnj2 3y ago
      Maybe not but IIRC iOS at least used to have support for Bluetooth file transfer so it’s annoying only airdrop works now
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Are you sure? I don’t think it ever supported that profile (OBEX). macOS did and maybe still does.
  - kiwijamo 3y ago
    AirDrop has its issues too. Used to work in educaiton at a school with 100+ iPads within reception range. Quite common to have A-to-B drops work but not the reverse direction i.e. B-to-A. Solution was often to ask another student C and use their iPad as a proxy i.e. B-to-C-to-A to get something from B to A. Quite fustrating given it would be an issue one day and not the next and what device it appeared on was totally random too. The same device B would send/receive fine to other devices but just not to A, and A itself would send/receive file to others but just not to B! No rhyme or reason to it, and of course being Apple no way to properly debug it.

This is not compatible with AirTags in any way, no? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity for a common standard? Or is there one?

by nikeee 3y ago

This is not compatible with AirTags in any way, no? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity for a common standard? Or is there one?

accrual 3y ago

I don't know the answer but I agree this tech should be standardized. Over time there will be a massive network of phones and tags capable of finding each other, but it's silly to bifurcate it such that you might not find your device because nobody on the "correct" network is nearby.

lxgr 3y ago
Couldn't agree more – just like it's quite silly to not be able to "AirDrop" a photo to an Android device, even though Bluetooth could do it just fine 20 years ago from a Nokia to an Ericsson or Motorola.

FateOfNations 3y ago

Apple and Google have agreed on a standard for the anti-stalking functionality. Everything else is still separate.

kelnos 3y ago

Oh sure, it would be a great opportunity, but the idea of Apple voluntarily interoperating with anyone else on most things is just funny to think about. Google isn't significantly better on that metric, of course, but I feel like it's often in Google's business interests to interoperate more often than it is in Apple's.

MBCook 3y ago
Yep. They never adopted or pushed USB-C (it was on laptops for years), Thunderbolt, SCSI, USB, Ethernet, HDMI, WiFi, Bluetooth, FireWire…
- lightbritefight 3y ago
  It's unclear if you are being sarcastic or not. Apple adopted USB C on their phones because the EU compelled them to. They tend to oppose standards they aren't already using.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Bull. That’s why I put the comment in parentheses. They had already switched their laptops to all USB-C many years ago. And iPad Pros. I think the iPad Air and iPad (no name) switched as well. There were also strong rumblings Apple was going to release the USB-C iPhones when the rule was passed. > They tend to oppose standards they aren't already using. You’re kidding right? Then explain USB. Or Thunderbolt. Of every other thing I listed above. Apple didn’t invent any of them and open them. They were all existing standards.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      So you're saying that's what they wanted to do all along, it just took them almost ten years, and it just happened to neatly coincide with the EU regulation as well? Sure, and they're now allowing game streaming apps and retro emulators on iOS because that's what they always knew was best for the world anyway. What a coincidence (with the DMA, in that case)! > Apple didn’t invent any of them and open them. They were all existing standards. Counterpoint: Magsafe. They had USB-C and went back to something proprietary. Another counterpoint: Thunderbolt wasn't an open standard until very recently, and I can only imagine that Intel gave Apple some heavy discounts on the controller chips used (or even their main CPUs) to push the standard. Apple doesn't always hate standards and interoperability, but they will absolutely try to push their proprietary protocols and interfaces whenever it's in their business interest.
      - MBCook 3y ago
        USB-C didn’t exist when they went to Lightning, it wasn’t an option. The fact all their other products were moving seems to indicate they’d move to USB-C on the iPhone as well. Rumors had them working on it for years. Now maybe it would have come out this year and not last. MagSafe: they added something back. You can still charge with USB-C. Works fine, I do it. Thunderbolt: that wasn’t Apple. Intel invented it and Apple put it to use. I have no idea if it’s open or closed, that’s my fault. What I meant was it wasn’t an Apple invention. Besides, what else had that kind of bandwidth at the time in a cable? It’s not like there was some common better thing they shunned.
shuckles 3y ago
Apple's Find My spec has been available for 3rd party adopters for years.
- kuschku 3y ago
  Only for third party tags, not phone apps, though?
  - shuckles 3y ago
    That’s fair. It’s unclear whether they’d allow 3p apps to query their servers to locate devices per the spec.
TulliusCicero 3y ago
What? Google is generally a lot better on interoperability compared to Apple. Just look at which company has their apps on which platforms.

lxgr 3y ago

Of course it isn't. The time of interoperable standards in consumer devices is long past. Bluetooth used to support file transfers from device to device on feature- and early smartphones no matter the brand; now there's AirDrop (and maybe sometimes Google Nearby, but only if the humidity and lunar phase is just right). In home audio streaming, there was once DLNA; now there's AirPlay and Google Cast. We have two mutually incompatible walled gardens, and while life within them is admittedly nicer than in a world of poorly-implemented standards, the walls are getting higher by the day.

Shawnj2 3y ago
Bluetooth file transfer was always nearly useless in my experience, airdrop was somewhat revolutionary in that it actually worked reliably most of the time
- lxgr 3y ago
  For me, reliability has been similar. I will say that it is much faster, though (no wonder – hundreds of Mbit/s over 802.11 vs. 2 Mbit/s over Bluetooth EDR). UX is much better too. But would it kill them to just support both? I’d take sometimes janky, always slow transfers to Android over having to WhatsApp photos to somebody literally next to me any day.
  - Shawnj2 3y ago
    Maybe not but IIRC iOS at least used to have support for Bluetooth file transfer so it’s annoying only airdrop works now
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Are you sure? I don’t think it ever supported that profile (OBEX). macOS did and maybe still does.
- kiwijamo 3y ago
  AirDrop has its issues too. Used to work in educaiton at a school with 100+ iPads within reception range. Quite common to have A-to-B drops work but not the reverse direction i.e. B-to-A. Solution was often to ask another student C and use their iPad as a proxy i.e. B-to-C-to-A to get something from B to A. Quite fustrating given it would be an issue one day and not the next and what device it appeared on was totally random too. The same device B would send/receive fine to other devices but just not to A, and A itself would send/receive file to others but just not to B! No rhyme or reason to it, and of course being Apple no way to properly debug it.