5 ms·

It's all about saving time. Musk got a private jet to save time travelling around. Employees WFH to save time too. That's the hack they found to avoid commuting

It's all about saving time. Musk got a private jet to save time travelling around. Employees WFH to save time too. That's the hack they found to avoid commuting to work. In such they improve the quality of their lives. Musk, Jasys and Benioff should treat their employees like they do their customers. Adapt to their needs. Asking people to come back to the office is just like selling something a customer no longer wants. As for Musk saying "it ain't fair for service employees" I reply those are different jobs. Poor excuse.

wkat4242 3y ago
[flagged]
pwdisswordfishc 3y ago
> treat their employees like they do their customers So, with disdainful indifference?
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  I was like w0t, like, have you seen what kind of garbage Musk sells his customers
  - firecall 3y ago
    I’m not going to defend Musk. The sooner he is removed from his companies, the better. However, the Tesla Cars made in China are excellent. The Tesla model Y is the biggest selling EV in Australia for a reason. Also, the Tesla Powerwalls are very good, and anecdotally based on discussions with owners of other home batteries, superior to other battery products. And Starlink actually seems to be pretty decent! Plenty of people in Australia love their StarLink! Space X is doing Ok too it seems… So yes, Musk has become rather odious, but the people in his companies are doing great work IMHO :-) We won’t mention Twitter….
vouaobrasil 3y ago
> As for Musk saying "it ain't fair for service employees" I reply those are different jobs. Poor excuse. Exactly. I had a service job and I didn't mind going into work at all because that's what the job is. And besides, interacting with customers is much preferable to being in a building surrounded by people typing on keyboards when no one actualy needs to be there. Should we now say that executive jobs are unfair to employees because employees don't get to run the company?
- newsclues 3y ago
  I worked a service job that required going to work for minimum wage and wasn’t happy that my wage didn’t increase when WFH employees got the benefit of WFH during COVID. A class of workers benefited, but other classes didn’t.
  - Ecstatify 3y ago
    Some professions, such as surgeons, pilots, and actors, demand physical presence due to the nature of their work. This has nothing to do with worker 'class'.
    - kys_now 3y ago
      [dead]
    - newsclues 3y ago
      Those roles are upper class or professional jobs. I’m guessing they had the ability to extract higher compensation or work conditions, compared to others who had to accept the new normal or else. This really impacts the lower and middle class.
  - dmitrygr 3y ago
    > wasn’t happy that my wage didn’t increase Did you suddenly start producing more value? If no, then why would your wage increase?
newsclues 3y ago
Does WFH save employees or companies time?
- anonymoushn 3y ago
  Do you commute to work via teleporter?
  - newsclues 3y ago
    Teleporters don’t exist. Work from home can save employees money on commuting. Work from home can reduce productivity. So does WFH save employees or companies money?
    - cdelsolar 3y ago
      WFH can also greatly increase productivity.
      - newsclues 3y ago
        Can != does
        orwin 3y ago
        Exactly. So, to rewrite your prior message: WFH does reduce commute time. WFH can (sometime) reduce productivity.
    - Dutchie987 3y ago
      In our company the _measured_ productivity is higher since we WFH.
      - fire_lake 3y ago
        Not convinced that productivity can be measured for most SWE work.
Gigachad 3y ago
Pretty much, from all the debate, its clear that the problem isn't the office. It's the commute. I hated going to the office when it was an hour drive away, often worse with traffic incidents. But for the last few years I've lived much closer so it's a quick train trip or bike ride to work and now I much prefer going to the office. It's so obviously better for communicating with people.
- danaris 3y ago
  There's been plenty of discussion about how the problem is, in many cases, also the office. Right in the discussion on this very article, in fact. [0] There are many reasons to dislike forced work-in-the-office policies. Not all of these reasons apply to all people, but they all apply to at least some. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39968652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39968652
cladopa 3y ago
Musk was a terrible employee himself, he always wanted to do things his way. When Musk talks about WFH, it is something personal, you can see his face because he gets emotional. I believe it is a good thing to meet colleagues from time to time in the same place, but for deep work I need to work alone. No distractions, on my place. As an adult I can manage myself better than most people can.
- kkfx 3y ago
  Managers do want people in the office to physically lock them: if you are a giant in a certain place most works for you or have to migrate elsewhere and moving homes scare many, it's not easy, family members might have issues moving their jobs together, eventual kids might suffer loosing friends and change schools and so on. People in the office means people more tied to their employers, more keen to accept not-so-nice things at work, not-so-nice changes and so on. While remote workers can change employers potentially just changing some login screens, witch makes them less keen to accept bad work conditions or bag changes.
whoodle 3y ago
I find the “it’s not fair to service workers” incredibly unconvincing. There’s lots of things that tech workers get that service workers don’t. Better pay, better flexibility with vacations, control over schedules, probably better insurance, the ability to sit all day, etc. The fact that WFH is the line for Musk is because he doesn’t like it. The same for other CEOs. But they know that isn’t an argument anyone will listen to.
- pg_1234 3y ago
  A better counter is private jets (and other perks) are not fair to regular employees. CEOs will cave fast rather than loose their toys.
martin_drapeau 3y ago
Pulling on the thread of executives blaming WFH for poor productivity, it just points to their lack of adaptability and poor management. WFH is a global trend and something you cannot fight. People will just go elsewhere. Executives should indeed highlight there is a problem and fix it accordingly by changing how managers operate. Not by trying to wind back time.
adamtaylor_13 3y ago
I actually hadn’t heard that excuse yet, but holy shit. It’s like once you’re a CEO you’re back in 3rd grade where everything should be “fair” again, unless it’s YOU getting ahead in which case you’re probably just REALLY talented.
piva00 3y ago
> As for Musk saying "it ain't fair for service employees" I reply those are different jobs. Poor excuse. Of course it's poor excuse, solidarity amongst workers is something Musk actively fights against, using that as a rallying cry for this is more than a poor excuse, it's blatant weaponisation of empathy against workers themselves. Fuck that noise.
whazor 3y ago
With more people working from home, we need less concentration of people living nearby their work. This would decrease housing pricing and allow service workers to live closer to their work.

wkat4242 3y ago

[flagged]

pwdisswordfishc 3y ago

> treat their employees like they do their customers So, with disdainful indifference?

lnxg33k1 3y ago
I was like w0t, like, have you seen what kind of garbage Musk sells his customers
- firecall 3y ago
  I’m not going to defend Musk. The sooner he is removed from his companies, the better. However, the Tesla Cars made in China are excellent. The Tesla model Y is the biggest selling EV in Australia for a reason. Also, the Tesla Powerwalls are very good, and anecdotally based on discussions with owners of other home batteries, superior to other battery products. And Starlink actually seems to be pretty decent! Plenty of people in Australia love their StarLink! Space X is doing Ok too it seems… So yes, Musk has become rather odious, but the people in his companies are doing great work IMHO :-) We won’t mention Twitter….

vouaobrasil 3y ago

> As for Musk saying "it ain't fair for service employees" I reply those are different jobs. Poor excuse. Exactly. I had a service job and I didn't mind going into work at all because that's what the job is. And besides, interacting with customers is much preferable to being in a building surrounded by people typing on keyboards when no one actualy needs to be there. Should we now say that executive jobs are unfair to employees because employees don't get to run the company?

newsclues 3y ago
I worked a service job that required going to work for minimum wage and wasn’t happy that my wage didn’t increase when WFH employees got the benefit of WFH during COVID. A class of workers benefited, but other classes didn’t.
- Ecstatify 3y ago
  Some professions, such as surgeons, pilots, and actors, demand physical presence due to the nature of their work. This has nothing to do with worker 'class'.
  - kys_now 3y ago
    [dead]
  - newsclues 3y ago
    Those roles are upper class or professional jobs. I’m guessing they had the ability to extract higher compensation or work conditions, compared to others who had to accept the new normal or else. This really impacts the lower and middle class.
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  > wasn’t happy that my wage didn’t increase Did you suddenly start producing more value? If no, then why would your wage increase?

newsclues 3y ago

Does WFH save employees or companies time?

anonymoushn 3y ago
Do you commute to work via teleporter?
- newsclues 3y ago
  Teleporters don’t exist. Work from home can save employees money on commuting. Work from home can reduce productivity. So does WFH save employees or companies money?
  - cdelsolar 3y ago
    WFH can also greatly increase productivity.
    - newsclues 3y ago
      Can != does
      - orwin 3y ago
        Exactly. So, to rewrite your prior message: WFH does reduce commute time. WFH can (sometime) reduce productivity.
  - Dutchie987 3y ago
    In our company the _measured_ productivity is higher since we WFH.
    - fire_lake 3y ago
      Not convinced that productivity can be measured for most SWE work.

Gigachad 3y ago

Pretty much, from all the debate, its clear that the problem isn't the office. It's the commute. I hated going to the office when it was an hour drive away, often worse with traffic incidents. But for the last few years I've lived much closer so it's a quick train trip or bike ride to work and now I much prefer going to the office. It's so obviously better for communicating with people.

danaris 3y ago
There's been plenty of discussion about how the problem is, in many cases, also the office. Right in the discussion on this very article, in fact. [0] There are many reasons to dislike forced work-in-the-office policies. Not all of these reasons apply to all people, but they all apply to at least some. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39968652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39968652

cladopa 3y ago

Musk was a terrible employee himself, he always wanted to do things his way. When Musk talks about WFH, it is something personal, you can see his face because he gets emotional. I believe it is a good thing to meet colleagues from time to time in the same place, but for deep work I need to work alone. No distractions, on my place. As an adult I can manage myself better than most people can.

kkfx 3y ago
Managers do want people in the office to physically lock them: if you are a giant in a certain place most works for you or have to migrate elsewhere and moving homes scare many, it's not easy, family members might have issues moving their jobs together, eventual kids might suffer loosing friends and change schools and so on. People in the office means people more tied to their employers, more keen to accept not-so-nice things at work, not-so-nice changes and so on. While remote workers can change employers potentially just changing some login screens, witch makes them less keen to accept bad work conditions or bag changes.

whoodle 3y ago

I find the “it’s not fair to service workers” incredibly unconvincing. There’s lots of things that tech workers get that service workers don’t. Better pay, better flexibility with vacations, control over schedules, probably better insurance, the ability to sit all day, etc. The fact that WFH is the line for Musk is because he doesn’t like it. The same for other CEOs. But they know that isn’t an argument anyone will listen to.

pg_1234 3y ago
A better counter is private jets (and other perks) are not fair to regular employees. CEOs will cave fast rather than loose their toys.

martin_drapeau 3y ago

Pulling on the thread of executives blaming WFH for poor productivity, it just points to their lack of adaptability and poor management. WFH is a global trend and something you cannot fight. People will just go elsewhere. Executives should indeed highlight there is a problem and fix it accordingly by changing how managers operate. Not by trying to wind back time.

adamtaylor_13 3y ago

I actually hadn’t heard that excuse yet, but holy shit. It’s like once you’re a CEO you’re back in 3rd grade where everything should be “fair” again, unless it’s YOU getting ahead in which case you’re probably just REALLY talented.

piva00 3y ago

> As for Musk saying "it ain't fair for service employees" I reply those are different jobs. Poor excuse. Of course it's poor excuse, solidarity amongst workers is something Musk actively fights against, using that as a rallying cry for this is more than a poor excuse, it's blatant weaponisation of empathy against workers themselves. Fuck that noise.

whazor 3y ago

With more people working from home, we need less concentration of people living nearby their work. This would decrease housing pricing and allow service workers to live closer to their work.