5 ms·

Have you gone through the process? The system wasn’t “designed” at all, it’s completely broken and chaotic. It is 100% the fault of this system and not that of

by jamil7 3y ago

Have you gone through the process? The system wasn’t “designed” at all, it’s completely broken and chaotic. It is 100% the fault of this system and not that of the immigrants going through it. Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German.

niemandhier 3y ago
I accompanied several friends through the process. My observation was that by simply changing the view on what is happening and extrapolating how to act based on that one can achieve quite a lot. I told people the following: 1. The person dealing with you is not there to help you, they are simply executing an act of governance. Rather than wanting them to help you, try to help them close their tickt. 2. You are the type of immigrant people actually want. These popele see lots of drama, lies, heartbreak and hopelessness. If you are pleasant and well prepared they will probably like working on your case since it will not make them feel bad. 3. Things take time. Be as early as possible with everything and realize that there early is a way to speed things up. Keeping those three things to heart worked very well. That does not make things faster, but it takes a lot of frustration out of the process.
- Ratelman 3y ago
  This is a brilliant view and probably applies to most situations when a person has to process something - not just government and not just Germany. Very, very few people outright don't want to help - if you come in trying to be the light in their day, they'll WANT to help you get your things done quickly and efficiently, and vice versa. A kind reminder, thanks @niemandhier
- amonavis 3y ago
  To me this is a weird view of government services. I'm paying taxes to have a system serve me, and to have processes support my life not the other way around. Leaving all emotions out of the equation, the job of the jurisdiction under which I fall is so facilitate my legality so I can pursue a productive and enjoyable life. If I'm paying taxes and I'm expected to pitch in the governmental effort, then that's not where I want to be.
  - duggan 3y ago
    You can deal with the world either how you wish it were, or how it is. The reality is that bureaucracies are full of humans – and we all know how humans are.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      Everything is full of humans, but private companies with terrible processes workers would usually have consequences that demand some change. Government services have no competition sos they are exempt from consequences if they're terrible.
      - malthaus 3y ago
        ah - i see you've never dealt with vodafone germany customer support then
        Rinzler89 3y ago
        Can you read my previous point? Vodafone Germany has competition, I'm not forced to be their customer if I don't want to, but I can take my money elsewhere. Meanwhile I can't choose between other government services while in Germany but those terrible forced upon me by the state.
      - amaccuish 3y ago
        Before the war when I studied Russian, I had the unpleasant experience of having to get a Russian visa, which is usually subcontracted to "VFS Global", a private company. Didn't do anything to improve the experience at all.
        Rinzler89 3y ago
        Private means nothing if it's just another monopoly without any competition.
      - duggan 3y ago
- egorfine 3y ago
  So much this. As a ukrainian, I have been immensely helped by the government officer in Germany while applying for temporal protection - just by being nice and understanding. Still took months with no success, because the German bureaucracy is in complete disrepair and is brain damaged.
Semaphor 3y ago
Not myself, but I accompanied my wife every time, and she’s now a permanent resident. The last time we just wanted to extend her temporary residence permit, they even advised us that we have no reason to do that and could just apply for permanent residence (which we then did). Waiting times are annoying, but that is because of an overloaded system, everything else was pretty painless.
- jamil7 3y ago
  I'm glad it was straightforward for you. I've gone for a number of temporary visas and had mixed experiences. I was in a very similar situation on my last visit and was, like your wife recommended to go straight for permanent residency, which ended up being a 6 month process with multiple visits and dealing with about 4-5 different people. This was all happening during the immigration reforms so that might have been a large part of the problem (requirements changed mid-way through).
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Ouch, that sounds painful. Permanent residency took 1.5 months and only required one more visit once everything was done.
shiroiushi 3y ago
>Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German. Isn't this just German culture, though? I had that experience just buying groceries and going through the checkout line!
- allarm 3y ago
  Absolutely not. I've lived in 2 cities in Germany for 2 years and Germans are the nicest people I've ever met. That's my second immigration and I travel a lot, so I can compare.

by jamil7 3y ago

niemandhier 3y ago

I accompanied several friends through the process. My observation was that by simply changing the view on what is happening and extrapolating how to act based on that one can achieve quite a lot. I told people the following: 1. The person dealing with you is not there to help you, they are simply executing an act of governance. Rather than wanting them to help you, try to help them close their tickt. 2. You are the type of immigrant people actually want. These popele see lots of drama, lies, heartbreak and hopelessness. If you are pleasant and well prepared they will probably like working on your case since it will not make them feel bad. 3. Things take time. Be as early as possible with everything and realize that there early is a way to speed things up. Keeping those three things to heart worked very well. That does not make things faster, but it takes a lot of frustration out of the process.

Ratelman 3y ago
This is a brilliant view and probably applies to most situations when a person has to process something - not just government and not just Germany. Very, very few people outright don't want to help - if you come in trying to be the light in their day, they'll WANT to help you get your things done quickly and efficiently, and vice versa. A kind reminder, thanks @niemandhier
amonavis 3y ago
To me this is a weird view of government services. I'm paying taxes to have a system serve me, and to have processes support my life not the other way around. Leaving all emotions out of the equation, the job of the jurisdiction under which I fall is so facilitate my legality so I can pursue a productive and enjoyable life. If I'm paying taxes and I'm expected to pitch in the governmental effort, then that's not where I want to be.
- duggan 3y ago
  You can deal with the world either how you wish it were, or how it is. The reality is that bureaucracies are full of humans – and we all know how humans are.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Everything is full of humans, but private companies with terrible processes workers would usually have consequences that demand some change. Government services have no competition sos they are exempt from consequences if they're terrible.
    - malthaus 3y ago
      ah - i see you've never dealt with vodafone germany customer support then
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Can you read my previous point? Vodafone Germany has competition, I'm not forced to be their customer if I don't want to, but I can take my money elsewhere. Meanwhile I can't choose between other government services while in Germany but those terrible forced upon me by the state.
    - amaccuish 3y ago
      Before the war when I studied Russian, I had the unpleasant experience of having to get a Russian visa, which is usually subcontracted to "VFS Global", a private company. Didn't do anything to improve the experience at all.
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Private means nothing if it's just another monopoly without any competition.
    - duggan 3y ago
egorfine 3y ago
So much this. As a ukrainian, I have been immensely helped by the government officer in Germany while applying for temporal protection - just by being nice and understanding. Still took months with no success, because the German bureaucracy is in complete disrepair and is brain damaged.

Semaphor 3y ago

Not myself, but I accompanied my wife every time, and she’s now a permanent resident. The last time we just wanted to extend her temporary residence permit, they even advised us that we have no reason to do that and could just apply for permanent residence (which we then did). Waiting times are annoying, but that is because of an overloaded system, everything else was pretty painless.

jamil7 3y ago
I'm glad it was straightforward for you. I've gone for a number of temporary visas and had mixed experiences. I was in a very similar situation on my last visit and was, like your wife recommended to go straight for permanent residency, which ended up being a 6 month process with multiple visits and dealing with about 4-5 different people. This was all happening during the immigration reforms so that might have been a large part of the problem (requirements changed mid-way through).
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Ouch, that sounds painful. Permanent residency took 1.5 months and only required one more visit once everything was done.

shiroiushi 3y ago

>Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German. Isn't this just German culture, though? I had that experience just buying groceries and going through the checkout line!

allarm 3y ago
Absolutely not. I've lived in 2 cities in Germany for 2 years and Germans are the nicest people I've ever met. That's my second immigration and I travel a lot, so I can compare.