5 ms·

Last time I was shopping for home insurance, an agent told me I was too close to a canyon, which I thought was strange because there are no canyons near me. The

by pants2 3y ago

Last time I was shopping for home insurance, an agent told me I was too close to a canyon, which I thought was strange because there are no canyons near me. They sent me a screenshot of the fire danger map where clearly it had the wrong location / coordinates for my address (they thought I was about a mile from where I really live). I pointed them to my address on Google Maps which has my correct location, but they said their system isn't wrong and the address coordinate mapping can't be changed anyway. Go away. Then another insurance company told me the same thing. I thought maybe I was going to be uninsurable completely based off of a computer error. Luckily, Lemonade has smarter systems and got my location right, so I was able to get insured with them. But I'm not sure what I would do without lemonade.

JBiserkov 3y ago
> I'm not sure what I would do without lemonade. Me too. So. many. lemons :-)
fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
I wonder if there’s a small-claims court claim here. It’s sort of annoying to have to jump through this hoop, but this is the sort of situation where you have to make it the right person’s problem to get what you want.
- MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
  Your best bet would probably be to go to your state Department of Insurance. They're the ones who regulate insurance in each state, including issuing licenses and appointments, and agencies and carriers tend to take DOI complaints seriously. It wouldn't necessarily get resolved fast, but they would have the authority to do something about it, if there are any grounds for taking action. (The federal government, for mostly historical reasons, does not generally regulate insurance except for health insurance, and that only started with Obamacare. So each state has its own DOI, and agents and carriers have to get licensed in each state. It's a dumb, byzantine system going back to Paul v. Virginia in 1869, when the Supreme Court ruled that issuing a policy of insurance is not a transaction of commerce. I don't think that reasoning applies today, but Congress has specifically exempted insurance from things like anti-trust legislation since then. Sweeping insurance under federal regulation would, in theory, cause a giant mess since there's so much law and process built around the current state-by-state system. IMO it would be worth it because the current system is completely ridiculous, but so it goes.)
  - giantg2 3y ago
    The State Attorney General might also get involved if you're being denied service based on faulty information.
- rendaw 3y ago
  I know it's not the EU, but under the GDPR you have a right to correct personal information. While you don't have a contract with them, it sounds like your information is in their database (for them to look up?). I wonder if that would be an avenue to fight this were this the EU?
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> Luckily, Lemonade has smarter systems and got my location right, so I was able to get insured with them. But I'm not sure what I would do without lemonade. Insurers with better information will be able to judge risk better, so they can undercut competitors on lower risk or avoid taking on higher risk. That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right?
- tshaddox 3y ago
  Cute idea, but hopefully (for that customer) Lemonade’s systems aren’t so smart that they figure out that they’re the only insurer willing to sell to that address.
- MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
  In the long run, yes, but Lemonade and other insurtechs have struggled to actually get that right. Their loss ratio (claims paid / premium collected) has historically been close to or above 100% (i.e. losing money), though I think Lemonade has finally been getting that under control recently. Distribution is also a huge factor in who wins. You can have the best product, but if you can't get it out to enough people, whether direct to consumer or through agents, you're going to struggle. A lot of startups have focused on direct-to-consumer plays, but there's value in taking a hybrid approach to distribution and incorporating agents into your distribution strategy. It's surprising sometimes, for those of us with a tech background, to see how sticky human insurance agents have proven to be. I can make a better potato chip than Frito-Lay, but if I can’t get stores to stock it, it doesn’t matter how good it is.
- mh- 3y ago
  >That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right? Should be. But states like California cap insurance rates in such a way that insurers are dropping (non-renewing) policies, since they can't charge market rates.
  - rlt 3y ago
    I don’t understand how states like California don’t understand basic economics.
nelox 3y ago
I wonder how many such properties are misclassified?
unyttigfjelltol 3y ago
I bought a house in when internet mapping was less mature, but still important, and many of the online data sources simply did not have the address. This was good at first, since very few people seemed to have been able to find the open house and bid against us, but it was annoying in the long run because you'd ask for Internet service to be installed and the technicians would blow off 2 appointments driving around the city lost and eventually you would have to talk them to the location turn-by-turn. The solution was to complain vociferously to the folks that maintained data sources. In those days it was Google, someone else, and it turned out the remainder of the defective commercial products were put out by a predecessor of, I think, the folks who eventually published or supplied the data for HERE We Go. Basically, every few months I would call them or write messages to them, social engineering who might be in a position to fix it. They did respond pretty quickly, for a bigcorp, but it took a few years for the prior versions of their database to cycle out of usage.
staticautomatic 3y ago
You should request your data from CoreLogic and see if the wrong location is in their DB, because they’re the broker for a lot of real estate underwriting data.
lliamander 3y ago
> but they said their system isn't wrong and the address coordinate mapping can't be changed anyway. That is some breathtaking hubris.
derwiki 3y ago
Reminds me of a few years back when my dad tried to get ATT DSL for my grandpa’s house. ATT told him they couldn’t find his address with their system. My dad reminded ATT they had a landline through ATT for fifty years. “Sorry, different system.” Got cable internet instead.
- tekknik 3y ago
  This is curious. Is it because they hadn’t upgraded the lines out to the residence? I had always understood DSL used existing phone lines.
  - mango7283 3y ago
    From the context it's nothing to do with the technology, it's the bureaucracy refusing to accept they already have the address.
autoexec 3y ago
Thank goodness you learned early that those other insurance companies were incompetent and unwilling to work with their customers even in the face of obvious mistakes on their part. If they had accepted you, you wouldn't want to have had to deal with trying to get money out of them, especially when you'd already be dealing with a stressful situation. They really did you a favor by rejecting you, and you now know to stay away from them when it comes to other types of insurance too.
namirez 3y ago
This sounds like a Lemonade ad.
madsbuch 3y ago
In the framework of GDPR (which I know is not applicable in the US) you have the legal mandate to ask them to correct information about you. I think that is very reasonable law: If n organisation makes decision about your relations, you should be able to force them to process correct information. (I have used that clause ones, when a bank wrongly reported that I had an open account of a certain type, which resultet in that I could not open that type of account at another bank.)
- rileymat2 3y ago
  Does it cover information about something about you? For example the insurance company had the correct address for the person (no need to correct) but the wrong information about the location of the address.
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    I reckon you can argue that they store and use wrong coordinates about the place you reside, which would indeed be illegal - just like it would be illegal to store a wrong address of where your reside.
Spooky23 3y ago
I had a similar issue with my car insurance. My mother in law, who shared a first and last name with my wife, got into a car accident, on my insurance. I worked it for a year and was unsuccessful in removing it. Ironically, my wife passed away but the accident is now associated with her car. They did figure out however, that I’m no longer eligible for a multi-driver discount.

by pants2 3y ago

JBiserkov 3y ago

> I'm not sure what I would do without lemonade. Me too. So. many. lemons :-)

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago

I wonder if there’s a small-claims court claim here. It’s sort of annoying to have to jump through this hoop, but this is the sort of situation where you have to make it the right person’s problem to get what you want.

MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
Your best bet would probably be to go to your state Department of Insurance. They're the ones who regulate insurance in each state, including issuing licenses and appointments, and agencies and carriers tend to take DOI complaints seriously. It wouldn't necessarily get resolved fast, but they would have the authority to do something about it, if there are any grounds for taking action. (The federal government, for mostly historical reasons, does not generally regulate insurance except for health insurance, and that only started with Obamacare. So each state has its own DOI, and agents and carriers have to get licensed in each state. It's a dumb, byzantine system going back to Paul v. Virginia in 1869, when the Supreme Court ruled that issuing a policy of insurance is not a transaction of commerce. I don't think that reasoning applies today, but Congress has specifically exempted insurance from things like anti-trust legislation since then. Sweeping insurance under federal regulation would, in theory, cause a giant mess since there's so much law and process built around the current state-by-state system. IMO it would be worth it because the current system is completely ridiculous, but so it goes.)
- giantg2 3y ago
  The State Attorney General might also get involved if you're being denied service based on faulty information.
rendaw 3y ago
I know it's not the EU, but under the GDPR you have a right to correct personal information. While you don't have a contract with them, it sounds like your information is in their database (for them to look up?). I wonder if that would be an avenue to fight this were this the EU?

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

> Luckily, Lemonade has smarter systems and got my location right, so I was able to get insured with them. But I'm not sure what I would do without lemonade. Insurers with better information will be able to judge risk better, so they can undercut competitors on lower risk or avoid taking on higher risk. That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right?

tshaddox 3y ago
Cute idea, but hopefully (for that customer) Lemonade’s systems aren’t so smart that they figure out that they’re the only insurer willing to sell to that address.
MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
In the long run, yes, but Lemonade and other insurtechs have struggled to actually get that right. Their loss ratio (claims paid / premium collected) has historically been close to or above 100% (i.e. losing money), though I think Lemonade has finally been getting that under control recently. Distribution is also a huge factor in who wins. You can have the best product, but if you can't get it out to enough people, whether direct to consumer or through agents, you're going to struggle. A lot of startups have focused on direct-to-consumer plays, but there's value in taking a hybrid approach to distribution and incorporating agents into your distribution strategy. It's surprising sometimes, for those of us with a tech background, to see how sticky human insurance agents have proven to be. I can make a better potato chip than Frito-Lay, but if I can’t get stores to stock it, it doesn’t matter how good it is.
mh- 3y ago
>That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right? Should be. But states like California cap insurance rates in such a way that insurers are dropping (non-renewing) policies, since they can't charge market rates.
- rlt 3y ago
  I don’t understand how states like California don’t understand basic economics.

nelox 3y ago

I wonder how many such properties are misclassified?

unyttigfjelltol 3y ago

I bought a house in when internet mapping was less mature, but still important, and many of the online data sources simply did not have the address. This was good at first, since very few people seemed to have been able to find the open house and bid against us, but it was annoying in the long run because you'd ask for Internet service to be installed and the technicians would blow off 2 appointments driving around the city lost and eventually you would have to talk them to the location turn-by-turn. The solution was to complain vociferously to the folks that maintained data sources. In those days it was Google, someone else, and it turned out the remainder of the defective commercial products were put out by a predecessor of, I think, the folks who eventually published or supplied the data for HERE We Go. Basically, every few months I would call them or write messages to them, social engineering who might be in a position to fix it. They did respond pretty quickly, for a bigcorp, but it took a few years for the prior versions of their database to cycle out of usage.

staticautomatic 3y ago

You should request your data from CoreLogic and see if the wrong location is in their DB, because they’re the broker for a lot of real estate underwriting data.

lliamander 3y ago

> but they said their system isn't wrong and the address coordinate mapping can't be changed anyway. That is some breathtaking hubris.

derwiki 3y ago

Reminds me of a few years back when my dad tried to get ATT DSL for my grandpa’s house. ATT told him they couldn’t find his address with their system. My dad reminded ATT they had a landline through ATT for fifty years. “Sorry, different system.” Got cable internet instead.

tekknik 3y ago
This is curious. Is it because they hadn’t upgraded the lines out to the residence? I had always understood DSL used existing phone lines.
- mango7283 3y ago
  From the context it's nothing to do with the technology, it's the bureaucracy refusing to accept they already have the address.

autoexec 3y ago

Thank goodness you learned early that those other insurance companies were incompetent and unwilling to work with their customers even in the face of obvious mistakes on their part. If they had accepted you, you wouldn't want to have had to deal with trying to get money out of them, especially when you'd already be dealing with a stressful situation. They really did you a favor by rejecting you, and you now know to stay away from them when it comes to other types of insurance too.

namirez 3y ago

This sounds like a Lemonade ad.

madsbuch 3y ago

In the framework of GDPR (which I know is not applicable in the US) you have the legal mandate to ask them to correct information about you. I think that is very reasonable law: If n organisation makes decision about your relations, you should be able to force them to process correct information. (I have used that clause ones, when a bank wrongly reported that I had an open account of a certain type, which resultet in that I could not open that type of account at another bank.)

rileymat2 3y ago
Does it cover information about something about you? For example the insurance company had the correct address for the person (no need to correct) but the wrong information about the location of the address.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  I reckon you can argue that they store and use wrong coordinates about the place you reside, which would indeed be illegal - just like it would be illegal to store a wrong address of where your reside.

Spooky23 3y ago

I had a similar issue with my car insurance. My mother in law, who shared a first and last name with my wife, got into a car accident, on my insurance. I worked it for a year and was unsuccessful in removing it. Ironically, my wife passed away but the accident is now associated with her car. They did figure out however, that I’m no longer eligible for a multi-driver discount.