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Not sure why you think charging is not the problem. I am a very heavy user of rentals (300+ rentals last year, 200+ the year before - max status on National /

Not sure why you think charging is not the problem. I am a very heavy user of rentals (300+ rentals last year, 200+ the year before - max status on National / Enterprise, Hertz and Avis) and I've rented an EV (Tesla Model 3) exactly once. Most users don't have the time to think about places to charge and even more so, to bring it back at 80% Not to mention, outside of major metropolitan areas (US and Canada), charging infrastructure is spotty at best (esp. if you don't plan for it). This makes charging an added hurdle that takes away from the experience. If you're a business user - you don't do it because you don't have the time and if you're a leisure user - you don't do it because your vacation time is valuable and spending time at charging stations that are usually out of the way is not ideal time spent for an expensive vacation)

aeternum 2y ago
Yes, I think this was the primary reason actually. It only takes 1-2 times renting it before you realize that returning at 80% is a major hassle. It's also a ridiculous stipulation since Hertz could easily charge the cars themselves. Instead they invested heavily in the EVs while keeping their archaic rule about returning at 80%. I wonder how much they could have made without this. If they allowed returning at 20% it becomes less hassle than a gas car because many trips wouldn't require any charging at all and a much better user experience. Filling up and then expensing gas while running late for a flight is super stressful, trying to charge an EV in that same scenario is like 10x worse.
klyrs 2y ago
I own an EV, I wouldn't rent one except: single day, and don't make me recharge it. The infrastructure sucks. I don't install charger apps on my phone; the number of chargers that just take a credit card and don't require an account -- even my local power utility requires a special card to access their network! With my own car, in my home town, it isn't a problem. My garage has a lvl1 charger for grocery getting; I know a few account-free fast chargers around town, and that's all I need. A multi-day trip, or a rental company putting the onus on me to return it full, just isn't worthwhile.
- fasa99 2y ago
  On top of this, most times when I am renting, is via an airport. Airports are everywhere, but not everywhere. They're 1-6 hours from whereever you're going. And if your destination is say 4 hours from the airport, necessarily one is going to be worrying about charging as such. That alone slaughters the business model.
- ggreer 2y ago
  With a Tesla you don't install apps or use a credit card. You just plug into their Superchargers (which are automatically added to your route if the car needs to charge to get to your destination). In the US, the largest gap between superchargers is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to St. Regis, Montana (94 miles). I've gone on road trips all over the western US and never worried about charging.
  - idop 2y ago
    1. You're talking about Tesla ownership, not rental. 2. You still need a very specific payment source, even if it's not physically on you at the time of purchase. If you're a foreigner, this may be literally impossible for you. Many places only work by linking with your local bank account. Tourists do not have local bank accounts.
    - ggreer 2y ago
      Hertz just adds the charging costs to your rental bill. You don't set up any sort of payment in the car. The experience is the same as owning a Tesla.
      - idop 2y ago
        I see, as far as I know that is not possible with Tesla rental in the UK (where my experience was). This is nice, but does it work with non-Superchargers? I wouldn't want to be tied down to one provider on vacation. Superchargers are rare in some countries.
        2y ago
ein0p 2y ago
Easy solution for Hertz: don’t require it to be changed upon return. Where I live a full 100% charge from zero at residential prices is $8. It’d also improve the customer experience I bet, especially over gas cars where you either need to refuel or get nickel and dimed on yet another thing
- brewdad 2y ago
  From Hertz perspective, that car is now out of commission for half a day. Car rental companies rely on getting cars back on the road as quickly as possible once a rental period ends. A fleet that is parked, charging or waiting to be charged, is actively costing them money.
  - imtringued 2y ago
    Out of commission? Is this some kind of joke? You know you can just charge money for the services that you are offering, right?
  - ein0p 2y ago
    What “half a day”? With proper infra it takes less than a couple of hours to charge even when charging 2 cars per charger.
    - znkynz 2y ago
      you still have to clean and process ready for next customer. adding 2 hours to other work may make it half a day
      - TheCoelacanth 2y ago
        You can't clean the car while it's plugged in?
        Arrath 2y ago
        It would seem ideal to have the line-up area where cars are turned in, inspected and cleaned set up with a bunch of retractable charger leads in the ceiling, ala shop air. As soon as you pull up, the attendant pulls down a lead and plugs the car in. Bam.
nicpottier 2y ago
What in the world do you do? 300 rentals a year and you are range limited on those trips? Genuinely interested just can't even imagine your life!
- skmexyz 2y ago
  I used to essentially be a consultant (left that life behind this year). My title was Junior Partner / Assoc Director. I'd on one hand advice executives (public, private & gov) on strategy (usually focused on tech but also growth, finance etc.) and work with on-the-ground staff to figure out what was going on & implement changes (meaning tons of travel between my home base - Toronto, to on-site - all over US / CA, to engagement HQs - usually NYC / Washington / Chicago / Seattle / Nashville etc.) I also took tons of (very-short) vacations in-between because I used to get super burnt-out (eg. my last day was Dec 31, and I ended up working at a client from Dec 5th to Jan 1st and flew back on the 1st to start my new job on the 2nd) and I love driving so I'd rent cars and drive all over (eg. Toronto to NYC to DC or Seattle to Vancouver to Whistler to Kamloops to Edmonton to Calgary, Toronto to Halifax etc.) I used to joke that in general, any car I rented would come back with at least 1k km if I had it for more than 2 - 3 days) Fun life (I'm just turning 29), enjoyed my job (tons of perks like I earned points for a lifetime on Air Canada and Marriott - my family used to joke that I'd treat my home as a hotel as I spent more time in hotels than at home), but I was grossly underpaid (I gave up a role that paid me 2x what I would have made for this) and I ended up on the wrong side of the politics at the consultancy (big 4) so I left on my terms (for a much better role) before I'd have been forced to.
windowshopping 2y ago
I'm curious, what's the point of renting 300 cars in a year? Why not just buy a car? That's close to renting a car daily, no? Unless you're flying to different places and renting cars there every day?
- skmexyz 2y ago
  it was mostly for work (I was home for less than 1 month including weekends) & some vacations (~15-20 rentals for vacations). My car was also stolen and wreaked and due to the auto shortage, it took insurance 3 months to get me a new car (meaning, 3 months of rentals - each for 1 week term).
fallingknife 2y ago
Since they can just install chargers at the rental location, you would think they wouldn't need to make renters worry about that like gas.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jimt1234 2y ago
Never rented a Tesla through Hertz, but I did rent one through Turo once. The owner did stipulate that I return the car fully charged. However, he pointed out hotels in the area that offered charging. So, I just charged the night before I returned the car; couldn't have been easier. Not sure if Hertz has/had coordination with hotels that offer EV charging, but that would help in a lot of cases.
emrah 2y ago
It's interesting Tesla did not take the opportunity to install chargers at the rental dealerships at no cost or reduced cost, and have the rental company offer "no need to charge before you return it" deal.
willmadden 2y ago
The other issue is people rent cars where they do not live and are unfamiliar. No one wants to hunt for a charging station when they need to get to a business meeting on time or enjoy their vacation. It is also a change in consumer behavior. EV owners just aren’t that big a percentage of the total market, and ICE users aren’t going to learn EV on a business trip to unfamiliar territory.
m463 2y ago
I rented a model 3 twice. One time I brought it back charged. The other time I dropped it off uncharged. I think it was $25? I didn't think it was that big a deal, doing the same with a gas car would have been 3-4x the price.
paulddraper 2y ago
> to bring it back at 80% Why wouldn't the rental car company charge it? Worst case, it's going to lose 2 hours on a 1+ day rental, right?
Reason077 2y ago
> "Not sure why you think charging is not the problem... Most users don't have the time to think about places to charge and even more so, to bring it back at 80%" Nobody is forcing you to bring it back with 80%. Hertz's charging fees are not extortionate or unreasonable. If you don't have the time or inclination, just return it as-is and pay the per-kWh charging fee. It isn't all that much more than what it would cost you to supercharge it anyway! (I don't disagree that charging is a problem when it comes to car rentals, but for the most part it's a psychological problem, not a real one.)
tw04 2y ago
>Not to mention, outside of major metropolitan areas (US and Canada), charging infrastructure is spotty at best (esp. if you don't plan for it). EV owner here. It’s VERY state and location dependent. Generally speaking, if you’re following an interstate, charging won’t be a problem even “in the middle of nowhere”. If you aren’t following an interstate, in general, “red” states that haven’t had any programs to build out infrastructure are a nightmare compared to “blue” states that have. Tesla in general is far better about charging in the boonies than CCS.

aeternum 2y ago

Yes, I think this was the primary reason actually. It only takes 1-2 times renting it before you realize that returning at 80% is a major hassle. It's also a ridiculous stipulation since Hertz could easily charge the cars themselves. Instead they invested heavily in the EVs while keeping their archaic rule about returning at 80%. I wonder how much they could have made without this. If they allowed returning at 20% it becomes less hassle than a gas car because many trips wouldn't require any charging at all and a much better user experience. Filling up and then expensing gas while running late for a flight is super stressful, trying to charge an EV in that same scenario is like 10x worse.

klyrs 2y ago

I own an EV, I wouldn't rent one except: single day, and don't make me recharge it. The infrastructure sucks. I don't install charger apps on my phone; the number of chargers that just take a credit card and don't require an account -- even my local power utility requires a special card to access their network! With my own car, in my home town, it isn't a problem. My garage has a lvl1 charger for grocery getting; I know a few account-free fast chargers around town, and that's all I need. A multi-day trip, or a rental company putting the onus on me to return it full, just isn't worthwhile.

fasa99 2y ago
On top of this, most times when I am renting, is via an airport. Airports are everywhere, but not everywhere. They're 1-6 hours from whereever you're going. And if your destination is say 4 hours from the airport, necessarily one is going to be worrying about charging as such. That alone slaughters the business model.
ggreer 2y ago
With a Tesla you don't install apps or use a credit card. You just plug into their Superchargers (which are automatically added to your route if the car needs to charge to get to your destination). In the US, the largest gap between superchargers is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to St. Regis, Montana (94 miles). I've gone on road trips all over the western US and never worried about charging.
- idop 2y ago
  1. You're talking about Tesla ownership, not rental. 2. You still need a very specific payment source, even if it's not physically on you at the time of purchase. If you're a foreigner, this may be literally impossible for you. Many places only work by linking with your local bank account. Tourists do not have local bank accounts.
  - ggreer 2y ago
    Hertz just adds the charging costs to your rental bill. You don't set up any sort of payment in the car. The experience is the same as owning a Tesla.
    - idop 2y ago
      I see, as far as I know that is not possible with Tesla rental in the UK (where my experience was). This is nice, but does it work with non-Superchargers? I wouldn't want to be tied down to one provider on vacation. Superchargers are rare in some countries.
      - 2y ago

ein0p 2y ago

Easy solution for Hertz: don’t require it to be changed upon return. Where I live a full 100% charge from zero at residential prices is $8. It’d also improve the customer experience I bet, especially over gas cars where you either need to refuel or get nickel and dimed on yet another thing

brewdad 2y ago
From Hertz perspective, that car is now out of commission for half a day. Car rental companies rely on getting cars back on the road as quickly as possible once a rental period ends. A fleet that is parked, charging or waiting to be charged, is actively costing them money.
- imtringued 2y ago
  Out of commission? Is this some kind of joke? You know you can just charge money for the services that you are offering, right?
- ein0p 2y ago
  What “half a day”? With proper infra it takes less than a couple of hours to charge even when charging 2 cars per charger.
  - znkynz 2y ago
    you still have to clean and process ready for next customer. adding 2 hours to other work may make it half a day
    - TheCoelacanth 2y ago
      You can't clean the car while it's plugged in?
      - Arrath 2y ago
        It would seem ideal to have the line-up area where cars are turned in, inspected and cleaned set up with a bunch of retractable charger leads in the ceiling, ala shop air. As soon as you pull up, the attendant pulls down a lead and plugs the car in. Bam.

nicpottier 2y ago

What in the world do you do? 300 rentals a year and you are range limited on those trips? Genuinely interested just can't even imagine your life!

skmexyz 2y ago
I used to essentially be a consultant (left that life behind this year). My title was Junior Partner / Assoc Director. I'd on one hand advice executives (public, private & gov) on strategy (usually focused on tech but also growth, finance etc.) and work with on-the-ground staff to figure out what was going on & implement changes (meaning tons of travel between my home base - Toronto, to on-site - all over US / CA, to engagement HQs - usually NYC / Washington / Chicago / Seattle / Nashville etc.) I also took tons of (very-short) vacations in-between because I used to get super burnt-out (eg. my last day was Dec 31, and I ended up working at a client from Dec 5th to Jan 1st and flew back on the 1st to start my new job on the 2nd) and I love driving so I'd rent cars and drive all over (eg. Toronto to NYC to DC or Seattle to Vancouver to Whistler to Kamloops to Edmonton to Calgary, Toronto to Halifax etc.) I used to joke that in general, any car I rented would come back with at least 1k km if I had it for more than 2 - 3 days) Fun life (I'm just turning 29), enjoyed my job (tons of perks like I earned points for a lifetime on Air Canada and Marriott - my family used to joke that I'd treat my home as a hotel as I spent more time in hotels than at home), but I was grossly underpaid (I gave up a role that paid me 2x what I would have made for this) and I ended up on the wrong side of the politics at the consultancy (big 4) so I left on my terms (for a much better role) before I'd have been forced to.

windowshopping 2y ago

I'm curious, what's the point of renting 300 cars in a year? Why not just buy a car? That's close to renting a car daily, no? Unless you're flying to different places and renting cars there every day?

skmexyz 2y ago
it was mostly for work (I was home for less than 1 month including weekends) & some vacations (~15-20 rentals for vacations). My car was also stolen and wreaked and due to the auto shortage, it took insurance 3 months to get me a new car (meaning, 3 months of rentals - each for 1 week term).

fallingknife 2y ago

Since they can just install chargers at the rental location, you would think they wouldn't need to make renters worry about that like gas.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jimt1234 2y ago

Never rented a Tesla through Hertz, but I did rent one through Turo once. The owner did stipulate that I return the car fully charged. However, he pointed out hotels in the area that offered charging. So, I just charged the night before I returned the car; couldn't have been easier. Not sure if Hertz has/had coordination with hotels that offer EV charging, but that would help in a lot of cases.

emrah 2y ago

It's interesting Tesla did not take the opportunity to install chargers at the rental dealerships at no cost or reduced cost, and have the rental company offer "no need to charge before you return it" deal.

willmadden 2y ago

The other issue is people rent cars where they do not live and are unfamiliar. No one wants to hunt for a charging station when they need to get to a business meeting on time or enjoy their vacation. It is also a change in consumer behavior. EV owners just aren’t that big a percentage of the total market, and ICE users aren’t going to learn EV on a business trip to unfamiliar territory.

m463 2y ago

I rented a model 3 twice. One time I brought it back charged. The other time I dropped it off uncharged. I think it was $25? I didn't think it was that big a deal, doing the same with a gas car would have been 3-4x the price.

paulddraper 2y ago

> to bring it back at 80% Why wouldn't the rental car company charge it? Worst case, it's going to lose 2 hours on a 1+ day rental, right?

Reason077 2y ago

> "Not sure why you think charging is not the problem... Most users don't have the time to think about places to charge and even more so, to bring it back at 80%" Nobody is forcing you to bring it back with 80%. Hertz's charging fees are not extortionate or unreasonable. If you don't have the time or inclination, just return it as-is and pay the per-kWh charging fee. It isn't all that much more than what it would cost you to supercharge it anyway! (I don't disagree that charging is a problem when it comes to car rentals, but for the most part it's a psychological problem, not a real one.)

tw04 2y ago

>Not to mention, outside of major metropolitan areas (US and Canada), charging infrastructure is spotty at best (esp. if you don't plan for it). EV owner here. It’s VERY state and location dependent. Generally speaking, if you’re following an interstate, charging won’t be a problem even “in the middle of nowhere”. If you aren’t following an interstate, in general, “red” states that haven’t had any programs to build out infrastructure are a nightmare compared to “blue” states that have. Tesla in general is far better about charging in the boonies than CCS.