8 ms·

Develop in Swift Tutorials

58 points by Austin_Conlon 3y ago

yohannparis 3y ago
Thank you, I always wanted to learn to develop for apple OSes. This one sounds like a sure source of truth. I heard of 100 Days of Swift[1] as well. Do people have feedback on the matter? [1] https://www.hackingwithswift.com/100/swiftui/1 https://www.hackingwithswift.com/100/swiftui/1
- glhaynes 3y ago
  Yes, 100 Days of Swift (and, really, anything by Paul Hudson (@twostraws)) is really good and recommended all over the place. One more resource I'd add for a beginner, the book The Swift Programming Language: https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-programming-language/ https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-pr...
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  I also recommend asking GPT-4-Turbo for SwiftUI guidance.
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  All of Paul Hudson’s stuff is great.
_factor 3y ago
Thank you, but no thank you. I don’t need to promote a proprietary ecosystem charging yearly fees with my addition. PWAs or nothing.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - frizlab 3y ago
    I wonder who Jesus is in this scenario.
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      It’s a meme. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/most-people-rejected-his-message https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/most-people-rejected-his-mess... The parent is right that web technology is the most democratic solution, but native fanatics will never accept the truth.
      - frizlab 3y ago
        I am forced to use web “apps” for work, and they are (still) terrible. It might be the best way to reach maximum people, but that does not make it a good way.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        I am forced to use “apps” for everything, and they are (still) terrible. It might be the best way to access platform apis, but that does not make it a good way.
        frizlab 3y ago
        Most “apps” are wrappers around web pages though, or written in cross-platform technologies, making them not really apps.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Gee, silly me, mobile developer who is unable to recognize when I see native application instead of web wrapper.
- niek_pas 3y ago
  I feel like I haven't seen PWA's in a while. Are there any you recommend as feeling like native apps?
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    No
  - mdhb 3y ago
    VSCode.dev
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - _factor 3y ago
    That depends. You’ll start encountering dark patterns when the address bar and underlying Safari browser appears and ruins the experience. PWAs are the alternative App Store we need, not a just a bandaid.
cassepipe 3y ago
Anyone developping in Swift on Linux ? How much of an uphill battle is it ?
- georgelyon 3y ago
  I have in several capacities over the past few years. VSCode works pretty well with the sswg extension (powered by sourcekit-lsp). Devcontainers are particularly nice if you are into that sort of thing (I develop in a Linux container on a macOS host). I actually find it easier to experiment with new toolchains (for example, the nightlies) in the Linux container than on my host machine (which requires more manual setup).
  - ngcc_hk 3y ago
    Wonder which linux container - docker, Lima, vm …
- frizlab 3y ago
  I’m developing a full backend using Vapor. Fluent (Vapor’s ORM) is a bit raw but that’s being worked on, otherwise it’s very pleasant. Vapor’s community (on Discord) is great! I compile in a Docker, and deploy the resulting image (multi-step docker file, first step for compilation, second step copy the resulting binaries). Installing Swift on Linux is a one-liner now if you want to avoid Docker https://swift-server.github.io/swiftly/ https://swift-server.github.io/swiftly/. EDIT: Two-liners actually: first install swiftly then install Swift…
- _mlbt 3y ago
  It’s in Fedora’s repos. “sudo dnf install swiftlang” is all it takes to get started. https://developer.fedoraproject.org/tech/languages/swift/swift_installation.html https://developer.fedoraproject.org/tech/languages/swift/swi...
mdhb 3y ago
Picking up Swift in 2024 seems like a bit of a sucker move if I’m honest. A language that only runs on a tiny fraction of hardware, has crappy documentation, has poor interoperability, a questionable developer toolchain that only runs on one platform and then to top it off anything you want to release with it basically has to go through an extortion racket where the worlds richest company is going to take 30% of your revenue and has the ability to shut you down at any point, for any reason and provides no meaningful recourse. Honestly it’s a terrible choice.
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  Swift the language is open source and runs on pretty much anything. Also it’s quite a nice language to work with and developing native iOS apps is an enjoyable hobby. I wouldn’t want to tie my pay cheque to it though for sure.
- frizlab 3y ago
  Swift runs on microcontrollers now; you gotta update your knowledge. https://www.swift.org/blog/embedded-swift-examples/ https://www.swift.org/blog/embedded-swift-examples/
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    Basically, anything that comes from a swift.org link is cross-platform and will run perfectly well just about anywhere. If you've got something coming from developer.apple.com it will be specific to the Apple ecosystem. And of course this learning resource is Apple-specific since it is coming from developer.apple.com.
- gdubs 3y ago
  I've built my career on Apple platforms and honestly this is basically what people have said about it since the beginning. I'll offer a counter and say that if you like the Apple ecosystem, there's never been a better time to get started. SwiftUI is an amazingly great way to build apps – and again, I've been doing this for a very long time so I'm speaking from experience here. For smaller developers, the revenue share can be as low as 15%. Also, for anyone weighing the decision keep in mind that while iOS may not represent the largest marketshare in the world, their users are well known to spend more money on the platform compared to other platforms.
robbyiq999 3y ago
How effective would it be to shove all of the swift/swiftui/OS-dev docs into vector store and RAG it with a LLM?
- belmont_sup 3y ago
  It’s been done a few times now. In looking for more SwiftUI docs, I’ve used a GPT from OpenAI’s gpt store where someone’s uploaded a bunch of their docs.
bsaul 3y ago
I think swift 6 will be the version where this language finally exists, or will remain a niche for always, until it get replaced by another (hopefully open, hopefully truely cross-platform) tech. Apple was a great place to start the language but its now completely really detrimental to it, largely due to its impact on the ecosystem (objc compatibility, xcode, focus on iOS only, etc). I believe swift core team should now reorganize around a community of people working in various major companies, not just apple.
gdubs 3y ago
I built my first iOS app in 2010. Today, it's fantastically easier to get started. A night and day comparison. My biggest piece of advice: pick something you're interested in, build it, see how it comes out, and then do it again. You'll learn way more with a project you're interested in to motivate you.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  The only issue that I've had with SwiftUI -and it's a showstopper- is that SwiftUI makes writing fairly basic apps insanely easy, but really has problems, when I try to veer off the beaten path (which describes pretty much every single one of my projects). Apple has always enabled staying in their desired UI and workflow, but I've usually been able to find a way to coerce the system to do what I need. That appears to not be the case, with SwiftUI. You need to follow The Rules. Workarounds are crazy complex. But I love working in Swift. It's just that I ship [UI|App|Watch]Kit.
  - gdubs 3y ago
    You'll definitely have a much more pleasant time following conventions – which arguably provides the best user experience. But for those times when you just really have to have something non-conventional, I've found that the UIViewRepresentable fallback works well. Just easier in those circumstances to not try and mix the two approaches, but separate them. Example in a recent app was it was easier for me to use a UIScrollView for the image panning and zooming functionality it offers. Simple matter of wrapping that one element in the Representable. Generally, for me it's been a ginormous productivity booster. I can rip apart and re-design a SwiftUI app and it doesn't break. That was always a lot more of a challenge with pre-SwiftUI apps.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
      It's not just non-conventional UI. For example, I wrote a dashboard app for the social app we wrote. Part of it, is a map, displaying the geographic distribution of users. It needed to be affected in a number of ways, and SwiftUI completely fell down. I spent over a week, trying all kinds of crazy stuff, and then gave up, and coded up the map screen in about four hours, with UIKit. Since this is a central feature of the dashboard, it meant that I had to also toss the previous week's SwiftUI work, and start from scratch with UIKit. I'm not very happy with UIViewRepresentable, and I eagerly await native SwiftUI API elements.
abalone 3y ago
One of my more unpopular opinions is that Swift would’ve made a good successor to Java for server development. Syntactically I feel it is in that smalltalk-inspired vein and feels like a pretty elegant balance of simplicity and robustness (strong typing, concurrency friendly primitives etc etc). And the reference counting based memory management is really interesting for servers where consistent latency is desirable. I know there’s a working group on it and a small community, but it never seemed to take off and get the kind of Linux optimization needed for high performance. Am I wrong?
synergy20 3y ago
I'm working on some porting-apple-code-to-Linux and it's quite a pain, many info is proprietary so google/chatgpt won't help you, neither does apple, there is no tech support, posts to its community forum has been zero responses for the last year. While I understand many love development with Apple, I decided never to touch anything to do with it. Linux, even Microsoft, are much easier to get things done and not locked up to a closed ecosystem.
AJRF 3y ago
I will echo what others have said here - Apple have failed on the original goals of Swift. - It is no longer simple, Swift 4 onwards have been piling the complexity higher than I previously thought possible. I would never recommend it as a language to teach. I would have with Swift 3, but 4 to now - absolutely not - too complex. - It was never open, but the language features dropped on the community to support SwiftUI cemented the fact that outside contributors are not treated with any respect. Worth reading - this is from the guy who created the language! https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/02/22/why-latter-left-the-swift-core-team https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/02/22/why-latter-left-the-swift... - Swift on the server is dead. Swift on other platforms has dreadfully poor support. It would and should be rejected for anything outside of iOS apps. Kotlin or Rust are much much better choices that live in the same space that Swift projects would be considered for.
- izackp 3y ago
  Swift has some of the simplest code for what it’s trying to accomplish. Any complexity is opt-in. Error handling is great and works well with async. Protocols and enums are amazing. It’s keeping up with new patterns and techniques such as implementing move semantics and actors. As well as c and c++ interop, and so on. Support is coming for other OSs. Kotlin constantly clashes with java. It almost feels like typescript + JavaScript. Rust doesn’t allow for shared mutability making common/simple patterns for making apps much more difficult. I like rust but it has its own place.
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  It really strikes me as odd how often I see the "Swift got too complex" criticism. IMO, all Swift got was all the best features of programming languages, designed as good as or better than in almost all other languages. It feels like calling Swift too complex is like calling a box of tools too complex. You don't need to understand all of them to use any of them, and the easiest tools in the box are those that are perfect for 90% of jobs. Enormous caveat for SwiftUI, but that's not part of the language, it's a framework. The parts of the language that enable it are perfectly nice.

58 points by Austin_Conlon 3y ago

Thank you, I always wanted to learn to develop for apple OSes. This one sounds like a sure source of truth. I heard of 100 Days of Swift[1] as well. Do people have feedback on the matter? [1] https://www.hackingwithswift.com/100/swiftui/1 https://www.hackingwithswift.com/100/swiftui/1

glhaynes 3y ago
Yes, 100 Days of Swift (and, really, anything by Paul Hudson (@twostraws)) is really good and recommended all over the place. One more resource I'd add for a beginner, the book The Swift Programming Language: https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-programming-language/ https://docs.swift.org/swift-book/documentation/the-swift-pr...
wahnfrieden 3y ago
I also recommend asking GPT-4-Turbo for SwiftUI guidance.
simonbarker87 3y ago
All of Paul Hudson’s stuff is great.

_factor 3y ago

Thank you, but no thank you. I don’t need to promote a proprietary ecosystem charging yearly fees with my addition. PWAs or nothing.

wiseowise 3y ago
[flagged]
- frizlab 3y ago
  I wonder who Jesus is in this scenario.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    It’s a meme. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/most-people-rejected-his-message https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/most-people-rejected-his-mess... The parent is right that web technology is the most democratic solution, but native fanatics will never accept the truth.
    - frizlab 3y ago
      I am forced to use web “apps” for work, and they are (still) terrible. It might be the best way to reach maximum people, but that does not make it a good way.
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        I am forced to use “apps” for everything, and they are (still) terrible. It might be the best way to access platform apis, but that does not make it a good way.
        frizlab 3y ago
        Most “apps” are wrappers around web pages though, or written in cross-platform technologies, making them not really apps.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Gee, silly me, mobile developer who is unable to recognize when I see native application instead of web wrapper.
niek_pas 3y ago
I feel like I haven't seen PWA's in a while. Are there any you recommend as feeling like native apps?
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  No
- mdhb 3y ago
  VSCode.dev
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- _factor 3y ago
  That depends. You’ll start encountering dark patterns when the address bar and underlying Safari browser appears and ruins the experience. PWAs are the alternative App Store we need, not a just a bandaid.

cassepipe 3y ago

Anyone developping in Swift on Linux ? How much of an uphill battle is it ?

georgelyon 3y ago
I have in several capacities over the past few years. VSCode works pretty well with the sswg extension (powered by sourcekit-lsp). Devcontainers are particularly nice if you are into that sort of thing (I develop in a Linux container on a macOS host). I actually find it easier to experiment with new toolchains (for example, the nightlies) in the Linux container than on my host machine (which requires more manual setup).
- ngcc_hk 3y ago
  Wonder which linux container - docker, Lima, vm …
frizlab 3y ago
I’m developing a full backend using Vapor. Fluent (Vapor’s ORM) is a bit raw but that’s being worked on, otherwise it’s very pleasant. Vapor’s community (on Discord) is great! I compile in a Docker, and deploy the resulting image (multi-step docker file, first step for compilation, second step copy the resulting binaries). Installing Swift on Linux is a one-liner now if you want to avoid Docker https://swift-server.github.io/swiftly/ https://swift-server.github.io/swiftly/. EDIT: Two-liners actually: first install swiftly then install Swift…
_mlbt 3y ago
It’s in Fedora’s repos. “sudo dnf install swiftlang” is all it takes to get started. https://developer.fedoraproject.org/tech/languages/swift/swift_installation.html https://developer.fedoraproject.org/tech/languages/swift/swi...

mdhb 3y ago

Picking up Swift in 2024 seems like a bit of a sucker move if I’m honest. A language that only runs on a tiny fraction of hardware, has crappy documentation, has poor interoperability, a questionable developer toolchain that only runs on one platform and then to top it off anything you want to release with it basically has to go through an extortion racket where the worlds richest company is going to take 30% of your revenue and has the ability to shut you down at any point, for any reason and provides no meaningful recourse. Honestly it’s a terrible choice.

simonbarker87 3y ago
Swift the language is open source and runs on pretty much anything. Also it’s quite a nice language to work with and developing native iOS apps is an enjoyable hobby. I wouldn’t want to tie my pay cheque to it though for sure.
frizlab 3y ago
Swift runs on microcontrollers now; you gotta update your knowledge. https://www.swift.org/blog/embedded-swift-examples/ https://www.swift.org/blog/embedded-swift-examples/
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  Basically, anything that comes from a swift.org link is cross-platform and will run perfectly well just about anywhere. If you've got something coming from developer.apple.com it will be specific to the Apple ecosystem. And of course this learning resource is Apple-specific since it is coming from developer.apple.com.
gdubs 3y ago
I've built my career on Apple platforms and honestly this is basically what people have said about it since the beginning. I'll offer a counter and say that if you like the Apple ecosystem, there's never been a better time to get started. SwiftUI is an amazingly great way to build apps – and again, I've been doing this for a very long time so I'm speaking from experience here. For smaller developers, the revenue share can be as low as 15%. Also, for anyone weighing the decision keep in mind that while iOS may not represent the largest marketshare in the world, their users are well known to spend more money on the platform compared to other platforms.

robbyiq999 3y ago

How effective would it be to shove all of the swift/swiftui/OS-dev docs into vector store and RAG it with a LLM?

belmont_sup 3y ago
It’s been done a few times now. In looking for more SwiftUI docs, I’ve used a GPT from OpenAI’s gpt store where someone’s uploaded a bunch of their docs.

bsaul 3y ago

I think swift 6 will be the version where this language finally exists, or will remain a niche for always, until it get replaced by another (hopefully open, hopefully truely cross-platform) tech. Apple was a great place to start the language but its now completely really detrimental to it, largely due to its impact on the ecosystem (objc compatibility, xcode, focus on iOS only, etc). I believe swift core team should now reorganize around a community of people working in various major companies, not just apple.

gdubs 3y ago

I built my first iOS app in 2010. Today, it's fantastically easier to get started. A night and day comparison. My biggest piece of advice: pick something you're interested in, build it, see how it comes out, and then do it again. You'll learn way more with a project you're interested in to motivate you.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
The only issue that I've had with SwiftUI -and it's a showstopper- is that SwiftUI makes writing fairly basic apps insanely easy, but really has problems, when I try to veer off the beaten path (which describes pretty much every single one of my projects). Apple has always enabled staying in their desired UI and workflow, but I've usually been able to find a way to coerce the system to do what I need. That appears to not be the case, with SwiftUI. You need to follow The Rules. Workarounds are crazy complex. But I love working in Swift. It's just that I ship [UI|App|Watch]Kit.
- gdubs 3y ago
  You'll definitely have a much more pleasant time following conventions – which arguably provides the best user experience. But for those times when you just really have to have something non-conventional, I've found that the UIViewRepresentable fallback works well. Just easier in those circumstances to not try and mix the two approaches, but separate them. Example in a recent app was it was easier for me to use a UIScrollView for the image panning and zooming functionality it offers. Simple matter of wrapping that one element in the Representable. Generally, for me it's been a ginormous productivity booster. I can rip apart and re-design a SwiftUI app and it doesn't break. That was always a lot more of a challenge with pre-SwiftUI apps.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    It's not just non-conventional UI. For example, I wrote a dashboard app for the social app we wrote. Part of it, is a map, displaying the geographic distribution of users. It needed to be affected in a number of ways, and SwiftUI completely fell down. I spent over a week, trying all kinds of crazy stuff, and then gave up, and coded up the map screen in about four hours, with UIKit. Since this is a central feature of the dashboard, it meant that I had to also toss the previous week's SwiftUI work, and start from scratch with UIKit. I'm not very happy with UIViewRepresentable, and I eagerly await native SwiftUI API elements.

abalone 3y ago

One of my more unpopular opinions is that Swift would’ve made a good successor to Java for server development. Syntactically I feel it is in that smalltalk-inspired vein and feels like a pretty elegant balance of simplicity and robustness (strong typing, concurrency friendly primitives etc etc). And the reference counting based memory management is really interesting for servers where consistent latency is desirable. I know there’s a working group on it and a small community, but it never seemed to take off and get the kind of Linux optimization needed for high performance. Am I wrong?

synergy20 3y ago

I'm working on some porting-apple-code-to-Linux and it's quite a pain, many info is proprietary so google/chatgpt won't help you, neither does apple, there is no tech support, posts to its community forum has been zero responses for the last year. While I understand many love development with Apple, I decided never to touch anything to do with it. Linux, even Microsoft, are much easier to get things done and not locked up to a closed ecosystem.

AJRF 3y ago

I will echo what others have said here - Apple have failed on the original goals of Swift. - It is no longer simple, Swift 4 onwards have been piling the complexity higher than I previously thought possible. I would never recommend it as a language to teach. I would have with Swift 3, but 4 to now - absolutely not - too complex. - It was never open, but the language features dropped on the community to support SwiftUI cemented the fact that outside contributors are not treated with any respect. Worth reading - this is from the guy who created the language! https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/02/22/why-latter-left-the-swift-core-team https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/02/22/why-latter-left-the-swift... - Swift on the server is dead. Swift on other platforms has dreadfully poor support. It would and should be rejected for anything outside of iOS apps. Kotlin or Rust are much much better choices that live in the same space that Swift projects would be considered for.

izackp 3y ago
Swift has some of the simplest code for what it’s trying to accomplish. Any complexity is opt-in. Error handling is great and works well with async. Protocols and enums are amazing. It’s keeping up with new patterns and techniques such as implementing move semantics and actors. As well as c and c++ interop, and so on. Support is coming for other OSs. Kotlin constantly clashes with java. It almost feels like typescript + JavaScript. Rust doesn’t allow for shared mutability making common/simple patterns for making apps much more difficult. I like rust but it has its own place.
happytoexplain 3y ago
It really strikes me as odd how often I see the "Swift got too complex" criticism. IMO, all Swift got was all the best features of programming languages, designed as good as or better than in almost all other languages. It feels like calling Swift too complex is like calling a box of tools too complex. You don't need to understand all of them to use any of them, and the easiest tools in the box are those that are perfect for 90% of jobs. Enormous caveat for SwiftUI, but that's not part of the language, it's a framework. The parts of the language that enable it are perfectly nice.