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Customers are not in a position to judge how much of a threat this might pose to their actual safety.
by BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
Customers are not in a position to judge how much of a threat this might pose to their actual safety.
- giantg2 3y agoThat's true for virtually everything. Most drivers have no idea how much danger they are in or may cause since our tests are a joke. Put them on a skid pad and/or autocross course (TireRack had a defensive driving AutoX program), and then they might start to learn about the vehicle dynamics.
- lupusreal 3y agoMost drivers have a reasonable estimate of how common and serious car crashes are, since we drive and know people who drive and therefore have firsthand and secondhand experience with the matter The same probably can't be said for most skydivers (I assume most are first timers ticking off a bucket list item.)
- bombcar 3y agoBecause most people are drivers, they can recognize a "bad cab" or even a "bad bus" just when they see one. Most people are not professional ship drivers, and so big ships are much harder to recognize as "bad" just by looking at it. And the entire world is filled with "required, but ignored" waivers and such, and people just kind of "do what the professionals are saying."
- giantg2 3y agoBy that same logic the skydiver had a reasonable estimate of how dangerous it was based on the stereotypical view of the activity (and his prayer before doing it). The point isn't about if you think something is dangerous, but how dangerous it is. There are a bunch of near accidents and minor accidents because people fail to realize their limitations and the vehicle dynamics. I constantly see people texting, tailgating, and not understanding the law (right of way isuses). Many people are wildly overconfident, showing they don't really know the risks and engage in risky behavior that they aren't even aware of.
- lupusreal 3y agoStereotypes probably aren't a good basis for reasonable estimates. The average "I would never skydive" person probably severely overestimates the risks. Somebody who does decide to skydive... I can't say. But unless they looked up the statistics I think it's fair to say they have less information about it than an average driver. Also, drivers know all about near misses. Their propensity to near miss is based off their knowledge that major accidents are quiet infrequent for most drivers (most will never be in a life-threatening crash, and minor crashes are a "once in several years" occassion for most drivers.)
- giantg2 3y ago"Stereotypes probably aren't a good basis for reasonable estimates." Yet stereotypes are exactly what you're talking about when it comes to anecdotal evidence in your prior comment. Most people don't think about the what ifs, or possible outcomes. They're making stereotypes based on the experiences they do have. Stuff like how dangerous driving in the snow is if your a southerner or a northerner. "Also, drivers know all about near misses." I've seen some rather oblivious drivers who didn't realize how close they came to injury or death. The statistics for either activity isn't particularly helpful because individual scenarios can be wildy different.
- lupusreal 3y agoPersonal experience aren't stereotypes. Stereotypes about skydiving by somebody who has no experience and knows nobody with any experience are not comparable to having said experience. I think you're being very silly here because you gave an axe to grind against cars.
- giantg2 3y agoI don't have an axe to grind against cars. I'm usually commenting in defense of cars. However, improving the driving tests could improve safety. Most crashes are the result of poor judgement or a lack of understanding the rules. "Personal experience aren't stereotypes." How do you think stereotypes start? It's personal experience coupled with group think. A perfect example is how people think nice sunny days are safer for driving. Yet in reality they are risky because people pay less attention and drive faster than in the rain. So yes, there are common stereotypes of the safety of various conditions.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago> Most drivers have no idea how much danger they are in or may cause... This is why we have vehicle safety regulations.
- giantg2 3y ago"This is why we have safety regulations." The regulations don't matter if people don't know them or choose not to follow them.
- simonw 3y agoI'm from the UK, but took my driving test in California. The California test did feel like a joke - it lasted 15 minutes and involved 3 left turns, 3 right turns, 3 crossings of an intersection, reversing in a straight line and parking in a bay. The UK driving test takes more than twice as long and involves way more maneuvers - though it looks like they've dropped three point turns and reversing left around a corner according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_driving_test#Manoeuvres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_driving_test#Ma...
- datascienced 3y agoah reverse around a corner, something I have not done since my driving test!
- Wowfunhappy 3y agoOops! For what it's worth, I interpreted GGP in a way that was clearly wrong in hindsight. I thought they meant "our vehicle safety tests are a joke". I edited the GP.
- michaelt 3y agoNobody goes skydiving expecting to be 100% safe. Nobody. The thrill of danger is the whole point of the sport. Unless they're providing skydiving to young children or the severely mentally disabled - which as I understand things, they aren't.
- datascienced 3y agoI don’t expect driving to be safe but I don’t want to worry about the airbag maker sticking a IED in my steering wheel, for profits or something.
- outcoldman 3y agoI feel as safe as driving a car. Except being on a plane, that is the main risk I take. I am a certified FAA Rigger, 1500 jumps, used to be an AFF Instructor.
- organsnyder 3y agoNo, but they are expecting a certain level of competence that will minimize risk.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tekla 3y agoDamn, if only we could apply this standard to driving
- tayo42 3y ago4.4 on Google maps with tons of positive 5star reviews
- throwaway74432 3y agoSurvivorship bias
- datascienced 3y ago20% discount on your next jump bias too as well?
- bigiain 3y agoNote to self: If I ever go skydiving, post a scathing 1 star review immediately before getting in the plane, and update it if I survive the landing...
- datascienced 3y agoA $40m judgement didn’t stop them but a millistar drop in their Google rating will get em!
- brewdad 3y agoA potential customers is far more likely to read a negative Google review than a log of court judgements.
- NathanaelRea 3y agoDeathswitch loaded with 1 star review "I died"
- RGamma 3y agoLet's be fair here. "I died" is two stars. One star is "I died and my family isn't paid damages and the business owner gets away scot-free".
- ilaksh 3y agoI feel like I have always judged skydiving correctly. It's been a consistent "nope" for me my entire life.
- outcoldman 3y agoSkydiving is much more safe than you think https://www.uspa.org/discover/faqs/safety https://www.uspa.org/discover/faqs/safety 1500 jumps in 5 years (not that much), 1 reserve ride, one twisted ankle in early 100 jumps.
- WalterBright 3y ago> Customers are not in a position to judge how much of a threat this might pose to their actual safety. I'm not so sure about that. I knew the statistics, and I paid full attention in the pre-jump class. A colleague of mine who went with us did not pay attention and shattered one leg from the ankle to the hip. Fortunately, he made a full recovery. I don't know why any intelligent person would regard jumping out of an airplane as "safe".
- NCFZ 3y agoWhich statistics are you talking about? According to the article, the only statistics available are from self reported data.
- WalterBright 3y agoWhen I went jumping back in the 80s, I was told that the accident rate was around 1 in 1000.