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I live in LA and I'm not sure this article is about California. Seems like a grab bag of regurgitated nonsense. I run a business and let me tell you there is n

I live in LA and I'm not sure this article is about California. Seems like a grab bag of regurgitated nonsense. I run a business and let me tell you there is no unemployment here, it's hard to retain employees. There is no outflow of migration as far as I can see, housing is extremely scarce. In fact one of the only reasons I would leave is because housing is cheaper elsewhere. California is doing so well, that me and many other people are paying a huge premium to live here. Also SF isn't California, it's a small part of the state.

hot_gril 3y ago
Whenever I see hit pieces written about my home state CA, that further confirms to me that it's prospering. Otherwise they wouldn't be talking about us.
- diogenescynic 3y ago
  Prospering for who though? Landlords? Certainly not the average Californian making $50-$60k who can barely afford rent and groceries. Cost of living and quality of life are moving in opposite directions. Yep, big tech, Hollywood, beaches/Tahoe, and a lot of other things are great--but why can't people admit that the state has been getting shittier for the last 30 years? It obviously has. Housing prices going up isn't exactly 'prospering' for most... what other signs can you point to? Our failing schools? Or lack of any consequences for any crime? I would struggle to point to how the state is doing well--other than income potential.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    The complaint about home values is like saying "nobody drives cause there's too much traffic." There's far more housing than before, and many cities that used to be cheap new developments have become sought-after. Irvine and Glendale were cheap places that attracted immigrants and built themselves up. Every person with a home and family can afford it, otherwise they wouldn't be here. That's how I gauge it, combined with the constant complaints from people who've never set foot in CA. If you want a real failure story, it's San Francisco. Plenty of well-to-do people are leaving it, and at best it serves as a temporary workplace for people who don't care about its future.
    - diogenescynic 3y ago
      Far more housing than before? No… housing is being built at lower numbers than ever… that’s precisely why property values have increased—when you restrict supply and increase demand (via immigration) then the price equilibrium pushes prices up. It’s borderline market manipulation. And there are so many different areas of California… Bay Area and Southern California surely are not representative of Central California or anything north of Marin county. Yes, if you’re rich and insulated in a nice neighborhood where houses cost $2m you’re probably pretty happy. If you’re living in Antioch or some area where sideshows happen and you see homeless people more often than you see cops… I’d bet you feel different.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        There are more houses in California than before, and the sum of their value has probably far outpaced any other state. There's no shortage of usable land here. And well, don't live in the bad part of Antioch.
        diogenescynic 3y ago
        You’re talking about absolutely values and ignoring that the rate of homes being built has stagnated to record lows (and definitely not keeping up with population growth and immigration). You’re either ignorant or dishonest or both. >And well, don't live in the bad part of Antioch. Might as well tell people not to be poor. Super useful advice, bub.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        I'm ignoring that because it doesn't matter. Are you saying that our population is simply growing without places for people to stay? Half our population is homeless or something? If the state were doing so poorly, there wouldn't be demand to live here. And if you want to call me ignorant, give me the source on those "record lows" because all I can find is https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SMU06000002023610001SA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SMU06000002023610001SA like are you comparing to the 2006 bubble? > Might as well tell people not to be poor. Super useful advice, bub. The suggestion is that if you cannot afford to live in an ok part of a city, you can instead be in a rural area, or better yet not live in California if you dislike it this much. I don't know if you'd find life better in the comparable part of Dallas or Detroit; weather alone might change your mind.
  - hnav 3y ago
    Mean vs median, mean Californian is prosperous because of a big concentration of wealth at the top, median Californian is desperate. California is in a lot of ways a trendsetter and a microcosm so something to look forward to on a national level in the future.
ilaksh 3y ago
Supposedly there are 40,000-70,000+ homeless in LA, depending on city or county level. Are you sure that none of them should be counted as unemployed?
- romafirst3 3y ago
  That’s actually a really common misconception. A lot of unhoused people in LA have one or more jobs. One survey I saw put that number over 65%.
  - diogenescynic 3y ago
    Yep a survey put out by a group that gets funding for homelessness no doubt… if Coca Cola put out a study on the benefits of sugar, I’d be similarly skeptical. And the jobs are probably stealing catalytic converters, stripping copper from light poles, etc. The homeless in California are on drugs and mentally ill. If they’re not, there are plenty of programs to support them, but if you’re on drugs then yeah you’re never gonna afford rent here… you can’t afford to be a junkie and afford rent on an apartment.
    - romafirst3 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - porkbeer 3y ago
        This type of insulting behavior is unwelcome here. You are no better than who you are replying to with that attitude.
      - diogenescynic 3y ago
        lol touched a nerve did I? Why are people so defensive of criticism of California? I’ve lived here my entire life and can tell you what’s great and what’s not. I want to change what isn’t working but if you’re just in denial about reality how can things ever get better? There’s a homeless camp under nearly ever freeway overpass… how can we be doing so well if that’s true? Go drive around Oakland or Fruitvale or Antioch or anywhere along the 5 or 99… California is in bad bad shape. It’s not all Palo Alto or Malibu…
nradov 3y ago
California has net migration outflows with a number of states such as Arizona, Texas, and Florida. Regardless of what you see this data is all readily available from the Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geograph... But there is still a housing shortage in California due to inadequate construction and foreign immigration.
- romafirst3 3y ago
  My feeling about the outflows to other warm southern states is that old retirees on fixed incomes tend to move to places where they can get value for the equity in their Californian homes. Often they buy multi family homes in these new states and can house their (now adult) kids who move with them. I don’t see it as a source of economic malaise more a way for them to cash out of the property market in California.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Your feeling would be incorrect. The outflow is 65% composed of Gen Z and Millennials. Retirees are a much smaller portion. https://www.businessinsider.com/moving-from-california-pros-cons-texas-millennials-gen-z-single-2023-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/moving-from-california-pros-...
    - romafirst3 3y ago
      Interesting breakdown. 1/3 are retired or students, I wonder how many people moving in to California are not working? This article also seems to say that the majority of people leaving the state earn below average income and don't have a college degree, so it seems like California has become too expensive for them perhaps? Again I'm not 100% sure it's a sign of economic malaise, people leave when it gets too expensive. There has been a dip in California population since covid (https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/population-exodus-2023-18566180.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/population-ex...) which makes sense with what I've experience anecdotally with people I know who've ditched SF for NY (and elsewhere). Definitely SF seems to be on the decline. The people I know didn't leave because of some kind of "failed state" vibe though, they left cause SF was going too right wing for them.

hot_gril 3y ago

Whenever I see hit pieces written about my home state CA, that further confirms to me that it's prospering. Otherwise they wouldn't be talking about us.

diogenescynic 3y ago
Prospering for who though? Landlords? Certainly not the average Californian making $50-$60k who can barely afford rent and groceries. Cost of living and quality of life are moving in opposite directions. Yep, big tech, Hollywood, beaches/Tahoe, and a lot of other things are great--but why can't people admit that the state has been getting shittier for the last 30 years? It obviously has. Housing prices going up isn't exactly 'prospering' for most... what other signs can you point to? Our failing schools? Or lack of any consequences for any crime? I would struggle to point to how the state is doing well--other than income potential.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  The complaint about home values is like saying "nobody drives cause there's too much traffic." There's far more housing than before, and many cities that used to be cheap new developments have become sought-after. Irvine and Glendale were cheap places that attracted immigrants and built themselves up. Every person with a home and family can afford it, otherwise they wouldn't be here. That's how I gauge it, combined with the constant complaints from people who've never set foot in CA. If you want a real failure story, it's San Francisco. Plenty of well-to-do people are leaving it, and at best it serves as a temporary workplace for people who don't care about its future.
  - diogenescynic 3y ago
    Far more housing than before? No… housing is being built at lower numbers than ever… that’s precisely why property values have increased—when you restrict supply and increase demand (via immigration) then the price equilibrium pushes prices up. It’s borderline market manipulation. And there are so many different areas of California… Bay Area and Southern California surely are not representative of Central California or anything north of Marin county. Yes, if you’re rich and insulated in a nice neighborhood where houses cost $2m you’re probably pretty happy. If you’re living in Antioch or some area where sideshows happen and you see homeless people more often than you see cops… I’d bet you feel different.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      There are more houses in California than before, and the sum of their value has probably far outpaced any other state. There's no shortage of usable land here. And well, don't live in the bad part of Antioch.
      - diogenescynic 3y ago
        You’re talking about absolutely values and ignoring that the rate of homes being built has stagnated to record lows (and definitely not keeping up with population growth and immigration). You’re either ignorant or dishonest or both. >And well, don't live in the bad part of Antioch. Might as well tell people not to be poor. Super useful advice, bub.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        I'm ignoring that because it doesn't matter. Are you saying that our population is simply growing without places for people to stay? Half our population is homeless or something? If the state were doing so poorly, there wouldn't be demand to live here. And if you want to call me ignorant, give me the source on those "record lows" because all I can find is https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SMU06000002023610001SA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SMU06000002023610001SA like are you comparing to the 2006 bubble? > Might as well tell people not to be poor. Super useful advice, bub. The suggestion is that if you cannot afford to live in an ok part of a city, you can instead be in a rural area, or better yet not live in California if you dislike it this much. I don't know if you'd find life better in the comparable part of Dallas or Detroit; weather alone might change your mind.
- hnav 3y ago
  Mean vs median, mean Californian is prosperous because of a big concentration of wealth at the top, median Californian is desperate. California is in a lot of ways a trendsetter and a microcosm so something to look forward to on a national level in the future.

ilaksh 3y ago

Supposedly there are 40,000-70,000+ homeless in LA, depending on city or county level. Are you sure that none of them should be counted as unemployed?

romafirst3 3y ago
That’s actually a really common misconception. A lot of unhoused people in LA have one or more jobs. One survey I saw put that number over 65%.
- diogenescynic 3y ago
  Yep a survey put out by a group that gets funding for homelessness no doubt… if Coca Cola put out a study on the benefits of sugar, I’d be similarly skeptical. And the jobs are probably stealing catalytic converters, stripping copper from light poles, etc. The homeless in California are on drugs and mentally ill. If they’re not, there are plenty of programs to support them, but if you’re on drugs then yeah you’re never gonna afford rent here… you can’t afford to be a junkie and afford rent on an apartment.
  - romafirst3 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - porkbeer 3y ago
      This type of insulting behavior is unwelcome here. You are no better than who you are replying to with that attitude.
    - diogenescynic 3y ago
      lol touched a nerve did I? Why are people so defensive of criticism of California? I’ve lived here my entire life and can tell you what’s great and what’s not. I want to change what isn’t working but if you’re just in denial about reality how can things ever get better? There’s a homeless camp under nearly ever freeway overpass… how can we be doing so well if that’s true? Go drive around Oakland or Fruitvale or Antioch or anywhere along the 5 or 99… California is in bad bad shape. It’s not all Palo Alto or Malibu…

nradov 3y ago

California has net migration outflows with a number of states such as Arizona, Texas, and Florida. Regardless of what you see this data is all readily available from the Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geograph... But there is still a housing shortage in California due to inadequate construction and foreign immigration.

romafirst3 3y ago
My feeling about the outflows to other warm southern states is that old retirees on fixed incomes tend to move to places where they can get value for the equity in their Californian homes. Often they buy multi family homes in these new states and can house their (now adult) kids who move with them. I don’t see it as a source of economic malaise more a way for them to cash out of the property market in California.
- nradov 3y ago
  Your feeling would be incorrect. The outflow is 65% composed of Gen Z and Millennials. Retirees are a much smaller portion. https://www.businessinsider.com/moving-from-california-pros-cons-texas-millennials-gen-z-single-2023-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/moving-from-california-pros-...
  - romafirst3 3y ago
    Interesting breakdown. 1/3 are retired or students, I wonder how many people moving in to California are not working? This article also seems to say that the majority of people leaving the state earn below average income and don't have a college degree, so it seems like California has become too expensive for them perhaps? Again I'm not 100% sure it's a sign of economic malaise, people leave when it gets too expensive. There has been a dip in California population since covid (https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/population-exodus-2023-18566180.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/population-ex...) which makes sense with what I've experience anecdotally with people I know who've ditched SF for NY (and elsewhere). Definitely SF seems to be on the decline. The people I know didn't leave because of some kind of "failed state" vibe though, they left cause SF was going too right wing for them.