9 ms·

Tesla stock drops 29% in first quarter as global dominance wanes

61 points by MilnerRoute 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MilnerRoute 3y ago
The title is from CNBC's home page -- which is also the title in the title tag of the web page (and visible in tabs). Further down the page, CNBC has a less specific title -- that "Tesla's awful quarter has Wall Street on edge ahead of delivery numbers"
lesuorac 3y ago
> Xiaomi CEO Lei Jun said the standard version of the SU7 will sell for the equivalent of $30,408 in China, a price he acknowledged would mean the company is losing money on each sale Isn't dumping banned by the WTO?
- Retric 3y ago
  Many US companies are also losing money on EV sales. I think dumping is more specific than just losing money you have to be selling in foreign markets for lower prices than you charge locally. “Ford is losing money on each EV it sells” https://www.npr.org/2023/08/11/1193083777/ford-electric-vehicles-f150-lightning-jim-farley https://www.npr.org/2023/08/11/1193083777/ford-electric-vehi...
  - gnfargbl 3y ago
    Indeed: > Dumping is, in general, a situation of international price discrimination, where the price of a product when sold in the importing country is less than the price of that product in the market of the exporting country. -- https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/adp_e/adp_info_e.htm#:~:text=Dumping%20in%20the%20GATT%2FWTO,market%20of%20the%20exporting%20country https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/adp_e/adp_info_e.htm#:~....
    - Retric 3y ago
      Sorry edited that a few times, thanks for the link.
  - maxerickson 3y ago
    Are they losing money on the incremental production, or not selling enough volume to cover development costs?
- zztop44 3y ago
  A Chinese company losing money on sales in China isn’t dumping and has nothing to do with the WTO.
- impossiblefork 3y ago
  "Since 11 December 2019, the Appellate Body is no longer able to deliver binding resolutions of trade disputes. Nor can it guarantee the right to appellate review. New appointments to the WTO's Appellate Body are blocked." This is due to the US blocking appointments to the Appellate Body. Basically the US does not want WTO rules to be binding, and want to be able to invoke national security to override any WTO rule without having this permit any kind of trade measures in response. Edit: I don't think this is necessarily terrible. The MFN rule is a problem for countries that form close associations in trade blocks, like the EU, so its destruction is probably good.
- amou234 3y ago
  Xiaomi isn't dumping (yet), but BYD is, and US is already keenly aware of Chinese dumping of electric vehicles years ago, that's why US currently has the 25 percent tax on Chinese made autos that Trump started in 2018, and Biden has continued since [1]. And that has so far prevented BYD and its Chinese EV peers (90 makers so far, but looking like 2-3 bankruptcy each month) from entering US market. Republican lawmakers and Trump are also looking to apply a 100% tariffs [2] Europe, the slow hare to US's rabbit, finally woke up in 2023, but just barely. They kicked off an inquiry into tariffs on Chinese EV vehicles in October 2023, and would take up to a year to finish [3]. These tariffs looks to be retroactive, as they have started requiring Chinese EV vehicles to be registered [4]. Europe, albeit slow witted, probably isn't going to willingly allow China to kill its own car industry, especially since China is actively helping Russia in attacking Europe. [1] https://www.vox.com/climate/2024/3/4/24087919/biden-tariff-chinese-ev-byd-battery-detroit https://www.vox.com/climate/2024/3/4/24087919/biden-tariff-c... [2] https://fortune.com/2024/03/16/trump-100-tariff-for-cars-made-in-mexico-by-chinese-firms/ https://fortune.com/2024/03/16/trump-100-tariff-for-cars-mad... [3] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-electric-vehicles-2023-09-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsid... [4] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-moves-slap-retroactive-tariffs-093000980.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-moves-slap-retroactive-tar...
photonbeam 3y ago
It’s fairly easy to point at things that have annoyed customers that they call features, like missing wheel stalks and poor autowipers
- Flyer4637 3y ago
  The autowipers are so bad on my 3 lol. I have to manually toggle them.
- speedgoose 3y ago
  The CEO too. I know a few people who refuse to buy a Tesla because of him. People buy Volskwagen, Porsche, Ford or Renault cars without thinking about the actions of the previous people attached to the manufacturer.
  - fred_is_fred 3y ago
    Your friends have a point. Volkswagen to my knowledge isn't currently actively spreading conspiracy theories or boosting the voices of fascists.
    - Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago
      There was the whole diesel-gate thing with volkswagen which was pretty shadey.
      - speedgoose 3y ago
        And the whole Nazi history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#History
        fred_is_fred 3y ago
        Yes I am aware. Henry Ford was also problematic. There's a difference between present day which will impact my life and the lives of my kids and something that is 80 years old. I have gay family members and a daughter and I worry about what this election cycle will do to both. VW isn't going to change that, Musk might.
xyst 3y ago
I wonder if Bill Gates is still shorting TSLA [1]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-bill-gates-super-mean-shorted-tesla-stock-biographer-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-bill-gates-super-m...
- ta1243 3y ago
  Tesla is overvalued to any rational player, but the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Gates on the other hand can certainly stay solvent for longer than you or me.
gravescale 3y ago
I still have never understood the valuations. Sure, they'd make sense if Tesla ended up being the only game in town, forever. But even though they undoubtedly have been streets ahead in many places for a long time and Western manufacturers have been caught on the back foot, the Asian players are snapping at their heels, and (some of) the Western brands are slowly waking up. And even if they weren't, I don't see how Tesla would have been able to dig a moat wide enough to last so long that a trillion dollar valuation could be realised before they become just another EV brand in the pack.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Tesla is a Schrodinger, depending on the narrative needed: They're David going against the Goliath of "the dinosaurs", "legacy auto". And then their fans like to remind people of their (IMHO laughable) Goliath market cap. You know, the market cap that says Tesla is worth more than: Toyota, Volkwagen Group, Hyundai/Kia, General Motors, Ford, Nissan, Honda, Fiat Chrysler, Renault, Suzuki, Daimler, BMW, Mazda and Mitsubishi. COMBINED. But wait, there's more, also worth more than all of these AND several Chinese manufacturers: SAID, Geely, Changan, Dongfeng.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  With the recent NACS deals they have basically also become the charging network of choice in North America, which is certainly worth something.
  - peutetre 3y ago
    With North America slowing working toward a common EV plug and CCS winning the charging standard war, North American EV charging will become more like Europe. Charge any brand of EV on any brand of charging network, just as nature intended. No more vendor lock in.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      NACS is winning, not CCS.
sschnei8 3y ago
Steering has gone out twice on a family member’s Model Y. N=1 example but plenty of other companies now make EVs and they do a decent job of it… shedding 29% still leaves the company at an astronomical valuation, ~100bn larger market cap than Toyota.
- dmbche 3y ago
  Also, steering-by-wire is not exclusive to electric cars, it's common ICE's as well - so it's even more apalling to have catastrophic steering failure on a new car, it's not the bleeding edge of tech.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  Toyota will have a greater marketcap than Tesla, by the end of this year. I just purchased a Camry Hybrid and it is just an incredible driving experience.
  - akmarinov 3y ago
    Toyota is a dinosaur that’s going extinct with their policies on EVs
    - xenospn 3y ago
      …or they’ll be the only one left alive after everyone else loses a fortune.
    - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
      Toyota's [IMHO correct] insistance on manufacturing hybrids instead of full-EVs is what is going to help them be so successful. My Camry hybrid gets 50mpg+, and "re-charging" it on roadtrips is as simple as filling the gastank.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    Does that include the super annoying lane-keeping? Rented a Corolla and would never want to drive that again.
DustinBrett 3y ago
The company is so far ahead that it doesn't matter as long as they can keep executing on their plans. Not a popular opinion right now because of the Musk hate, but Tesla is not like other companies and Elon is not like other CEO's.
- lvl102 3y ago
  So Tesla is not like other companies…that survived secular changes. Tesla demographics changed quite a bit in the past five years.
  - DustinBrett 3y ago
    Well I don't know what you mean by secular changes. I can't speak to what has changed in the last 5 years as far as staff. But they still seem to be planning big and thinking the same way. They are the slow giant.
- deadbabe 3y ago
  They are not far ahead. We’ve seen peak Tesla, competitors are catching up fast.
  - DustinBrett 3y ago
    Tesla has no competition. Cars is a small part of what they do.
    - hervature 3y ago
      Tesla's most recent 10-K (numbers in millions of $): """ Automotive sales: 78,509 Automotive regulatory credits: 1,790 Automotive leasing: 2,120 Services and other: 8,319 Energy generation and storage segment revenue: 6,035 """ Which part are you referring to when you say cars is a small part?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
PreachSoup 3y ago
It's just a matter of time. China is making ev like android phones. Other countries are also catching up. The high profit margin of Tesla cannot last forever
- amou234 3y ago
  It's not a matter of time, cars and the car industry are treated as national security. Chinese EV cars will be even more tariffed in US and Europe in 2024/2025
  - PreachSoup 3y ago
    We were talking about Tesla's profit margin and evaluation in the thread. Not sure if you replied to the wrong post
    - amou234 3y ago
      Ah, your statement sounds like Chinese EVs were inevitable
      - PreachSoup 3y ago
        The competition is inevitable. It comes from everywhere
  - xnx 3y ago
    Will tariffs work if BYD does final assembly of vehicles in Mexico?
- ansible 3y ago
  I'm just concerned about battery safety with Chinese EVs. I've seen more than a few video clips of Chinese EVs just spontaneously catching fire (not from an accident). I would be more confident in owning a Chinese-made EV if it conforms to appropriate battery safety standards, and that those standards are enforced by USA regulations. I'm sure at least half the problems with the Chinese EVs are the inadequate regulatory environment created by the PRC.
gerdesj 3y ago
"Investors are concerned about auto sales as the company faces increased competition from China and disruptions in Europe." Tesla have practically defined the market so far. They made EVs cool, created a comparatively vast world wide charging distribution network and so on. Now we have competition, proper competition. Mind you some of it is a bit shag, but nonetheless there is competition, and a lot of it is pretty good. I drive a thing called a MG4. I went to school in Abingdon near to where the Morris Garage originated. My Dad had an MG Midget, back in the '60s. The car I drive is Chinese, it just has MG plastered on it. My MG4 (its the extended range version) has comparable range to most of the current crop of EVs and is also comparably cheaper, and somewhat smaller, so less space. Swings and roundabouts. My point is that there is a lot more variety now than say five years ago. There is Polestar (from Norway) and Volvo and ... and. However, what all the johnny come lately's lack, which Tesla has, is its charging network. They have lost their lead in style and all that S3XY wankery - all the rest can do a reasonable job in looking cool/menacing. They do have a lead in infrastructure and should capitalise on it. I suggest opening it up to everyone and expand as fast as they can possibly manage/acquire. The real winners will be the energy suppliers. If you can ensure you are the flogger of the hardware that consumes that energy then its win/win. Swallow your pride: partner with everyone and get them to brand their stuff as Tesla. If Tesla manage to bugger this up (given their head start) then they only have themselves to blame and the market will be merciless.
- gerdesj 3y ago
  Just in case I didn't spell it out: ICE: You buy a Ford/Volvo/VAG and you run it on Shell, Esso, BP etc EV: You buy a Tesla, power it with Tesla. Buy another EV - power it with ... electricity Tesla seem to have go this early on and then perhaps lost focus.
- atombender 3y ago
  > There is Polestar (from Norway) Minor correction: Polestar is Swedish. It is co-owned by Volvo and Geely, a Chinese car company, which in turn is an owner of Volvo. This year, Volvo stopped funding Polestar and has handed responsibility over entirely to Geely [1], and plans to get rid of their stake. So you could say Polestar is now a fully Chinese brand. Agreed about there being a lot of alternatives now. Other than MG, you can get great EVs from VW, Peugot, BMW, Audi, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, Volvo, Opel etc., ranging from very cheap (MG4, Opel Mokka) to ridiculously expensive (Lotus Eletre). [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automaker-volvo-cars-stop-funding-polestar-quarterly-earnings-above-estimates-2024-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automa...

61 points by MilnerRoute 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

The title is from CNBC's home page -- which is also the title in the title tag of the web page (and visible in tabs). Further down the page, CNBC has a less specific title -- that "Tesla's awful quarter has Wall Street on edge ahead of delivery numbers"

lesuorac 3y ago

> Xiaomi CEO Lei Jun said the standard version of the SU7 will sell for the equivalent of $30,408 in China, a price he acknowledged would mean the company is losing money on each sale Isn't dumping banned by the WTO?

Retric 3y ago
Many US companies are also losing money on EV sales. I think dumping is more specific than just losing money you have to be selling in foreign markets for lower prices than you charge locally. “Ford is losing money on each EV it sells” https://www.npr.org/2023/08/11/1193083777/ford-electric-vehicles-f150-lightning-jim-farley https://www.npr.org/2023/08/11/1193083777/ford-electric-vehi...
- gnfargbl 3y ago
  Indeed: > Dumping is, in general, a situation of international price discrimination, where the price of a product when sold in the importing country is less than the price of that product in the market of the exporting country. -- https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/adp_e/adp_info_e.htm#:~:text=Dumping%20in%20the%20GATT%2FWTO,market%20of%20the%20exporting%20country https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/adp_e/adp_info_e.htm#:~....
  - Retric 3y ago
    Sorry edited that a few times, thanks for the link.
- maxerickson 3y ago
  Are they losing money on the incremental production, or not selling enough volume to cover development costs?
zztop44 3y ago
A Chinese company losing money on sales in China isn’t dumping and has nothing to do with the WTO.
impossiblefork 3y ago
"Since 11 December 2019, the Appellate Body is no longer able to deliver binding resolutions of trade disputes. Nor can it guarantee the right to appellate review. New appointments to the WTO's Appellate Body are blocked." This is due to the US blocking appointments to the Appellate Body. Basically the US does not want WTO rules to be binding, and want to be able to invoke national security to override any WTO rule without having this permit any kind of trade measures in response. Edit: I don't think this is necessarily terrible. The MFN rule is a problem for countries that form close associations in trade blocks, like the EU, so its destruction is probably good.
amou234 3y ago
Xiaomi isn't dumping (yet), but BYD is, and US is already keenly aware of Chinese dumping of electric vehicles years ago, that's why US currently has the 25 percent tax on Chinese made autos that Trump started in 2018, and Biden has continued since [1]. And that has so far prevented BYD and its Chinese EV peers (90 makers so far, but looking like 2-3 bankruptcy each month) from entering US market. Republican lawmakers and Trump are also looking to apply a 100% tariffs [2] Europe, the slow hare to US's rabbit, finally woke up in 2023, but just barely. They kicked off an inquiry into tariffs on Chinese EV vehicles in October 2023, and would take up to a year to finish [3]. These tariffs looks to be retroactive, as they have started requiring Chinese EV vehicles to be registered [4]. Europe, albeit slow witted, probably isn't going to willingly allow China to kill its own car industry, especially since China is actively helping Russia in attacking Europe. [1] https://www.vox.com/climate/2024/3/4/24087919/biden-tariff-chinese-ev-byd-battery-detroit https://www.vox.com/climate/2024/3/4/24087919/biden-tariff-c... [2] https://fortune.com/2024/03/16/trump-100-tariff-for-cars-made-in-mexico-by-chinese-firms/ https://fortune.com/2024/03/16/trump-100-tariff-for-cars-mad... [3] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-electric-vehicles-2023-09-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsid... [4] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-moves-slap-retroactive-tariffs-093000980.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-moves-slap-retroactive-tar...

photonbeam 3y ago

It’s fairly easy to point at things that have annoyed customers that they call features, like missing wheel stalks and poor autowipers

Flyer4637 3y ago
The autowipers are so bad on my 3 lol. I have to manually toggle them.
speedgoose 3y ago
The CEO too. I know a few people who refuse to buy a Tesla because of him. People buy Volskwagen, Porsche, Ford or Renault cars without thinking about the actions of the previous people attached to the manufacturer.
- fred_is_fred 3y ago
  Your friends have a point. Volkswagen to my knowledge isn't currently actively spreading conspiracy theories or boosting the voices of fascists.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago
    There was the whole diesel-gate thing with volkswagen which was pretty shadey.
    - speedgoose 3y ago
      And the whole Nazi history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#History
      - fred_is_fred 3y ago
        Yes I am aware. Henry Ford was also problematic. There's a difference between present day which will impact my life and the lives of my kids and something that is 80 years old. I have gay family members and a daughter and I worry about what this election cycle will do to both. VW isn't going to change that, Musk might.

xyst 3y ago

I wonder if Bill Gates is still shorting TSLA [1]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-bill-gates-super-mean-shorted-tesla-stock-biographer-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-bill-gates-super-m...

ta1243 3y ago
Tesla is overvalued to any rational player, but the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Gates on the other hand can certainly stay solvent for longer than you or me.

gravescale 3y ago

I still have never understood the valuations. Sure, they'd make sense if Tesla ended up being the only game in town, forever. But even though they undoubtedly have been streets ahead in many places for a long time and Western manufacturers have been caught on the back foot, the Asian players are snapping at their heels, and (some of) the Western brands are slowly waking up. And even if they weren't, I don't see how Tesla would have been able to dig a moat wide enough to last so long that a trillion dollar valuation could be realised before they become just another EV brand in the pack.

FireBeyond 3y ago
Tesla is a Schrodinger, depending on the narrative needed: They're David going against the Goliath of "the dinosaurs", "legacy auto". And then their fans like to remind people of their (IMHO laughable) Goliath market cap. You know, the market cap that says Tesla is worth more than: Toyota, Volkwagen Group, Hyundai/Kia, General Motors, Ford, Nissan, Honda, Fiat Chrysler, Renault, Suzuki, Daimler, BMW, Mazda and Mitsubishi. COMBINED. But wait, there's more, also worth more than all of these AND several Chinese manufacturers: SAID, Geely, Changan, Dongfeng.
bobthepanda 3y ago
With the recent NACS deals they have basically also become the charging network of choice in North America, which is certainly worth something.
- peutetre 3y ago
  With North America slowing working toward a common EV plug and CCS winning the charging standard war, North American EV charging will become more like Europe. Charge any brand of EV on any brand of charging network, just as nature intended. No more vendor lock in.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    NACS is winning, not CCS.

sschnei8 3y ago

Steering has gone out twice on a family member’s Model Y. N=1 example but plenty of other companies now make EVs and they do a decent job of it… shedding 29% still leaves the company at an astronomical valuation, ~100bn larger market cap than Toyota.

dmbche 3y ago
Also, steering-by-wire is not exclusive to electric cars, it's common ICE's as well - so it's even more apalling to have catastrophic steering failure on a new car, it's not the bleeding edge of tech.
ProllyInfamous 3y ago
Toyota will have a greater marketcap than Tesla, by the end of this year. I just purchased a Camry Hybrid and it is just an incredible driving experience.
- akmarinov 3y ago
  Toyota is a dinosaur that’s going extinct with their policies on EVs
  - xenospn 3y ago
    …or they’ll be the only one left alive after everyone else loses a fortune.
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    Toyota's [IMHO correct] insistance on manufacturing hybrids instead of full-EVs is what is going to help them be so successful. My Camry hybrid gets 50mpg+, and "re-charging" it on roadtrips is as simple as filling the gastank.
- r00fus 3y ago
  Does that include the super annoying lane-keeping? Rented a Corolla and would never want to drive that again.

DustinBrett 3y ago

The company is so far ahead that it doesn't matter as long as they can keep executing on their plans. Not a popular opinion right now because of the Musk hate, but Tesla is not like other companies and Elon is not like other CEO's.

lvl102 3y ago
So Tesla is not like other companies…that survived secular changes. Tesla demographics changed quite a bit in the past five years.
- DustinBrett 3y ago
  Well I don't know what you mean by secular changes. I can't speak to what has changed in the last 5 years as far as staff. But they still seem to be planning big and thinking the same way. They are the slow giant.
deadbabe 3y ago
They are not far ahead. We’ve seen peak Tesla, competitors are catching up fast.
- DustinBrett 3y ago
  Tesla has no competition. Cars is a small part of what they do.
  - hervature 3y ago
    Tesla's most recent 10-K (numbers in millions of $): """ Automotive sales: 78,509 Automotive regulatory credits: 1,790 Automotive leasing: 2,120 Services and other: 8,319 Energy generation and storage segment revenue: 6,035 """ Which part are you referring to when you say cars is a small part?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

PreachSoup 3y ago

It's just a matter of time. China is making ev like android phones. Other countries are also catching up. The high profit margin of Tesla cannot last forever

amou234 3y ago
It's not a matter of time, cars and the car industry are treated as national security. Chinese EV cars will be even more tariffed in US and Europe in 2024/2025
- PreachSoup 3y ago
  We were talking about Tesla's profit margin and evaluation in the thread. Not sure if you replied to the wrong post
  - amou234 3y ago
    Ah, your statement sounds like Chinese EVs were inevitable
    - PreachSoup 3y ago
      The competition is inevitable. It comes from everywhere
- xnx 3y ago
  Will tariffs work if BYD does final assembly of vehicles in Mexico?
ansible 3y ago
I'm just concerned about battery safety with Chinese EVs. I've seen more than a few video clips of Chinese EVs just spontaneously catching fire (not from an accident). I would be more confident in owning a Chinese-made EV if it conforms to appropriate battery safety standards, and that those standards are enforced by USA regulations. I'm sure at least half the problems with the Chinese EVs are the inadequate regulatory environment created by the PRC.

gerdesj 3y ago

"Investors are concerned about auto sales as the company faces increased competition from China and disruptions in Europe." Tesla have practically defined the market so far. They made EVs cool, created a comparatively vast world wide charging distribution network and so on. Now we have competition, proper competition. Mind you some of it is a bit shag, but nonetheless there is competition, and a lot of it is pretty good. I drive a thing called a MG4. I went to school in Abingdon near to where the Morris Garage originated. My Dad had an MG Midget, back in the '60s. The car I drive is Chinese, it just has MG plastered on it. My MG4 (its the extended range version) has comparable range to most of the current crop of EVs and is also comparably cheaper, and somewhat smaller, so less space. Swings and roundabouts. My point is that there is a lot more variety now than say five years ago. There is Polestar (from Norway) and Volvo and ... and. However, what all the johnny come lately's lack, which Tesla has, is its charging network. They have lost their lead in style and all that S3XY wankery - all the rest can do a reasonable job in looking cool/menacing. They do have a lead in infrastructure and should capitalise on it. I suggest opening it up to everyone and expand as fast as they can possibly manage/acquire. The real winners will be the energy suppliers. If you can ensure you are the flogger of the hardware that consumes that energy then its win/win. Swallow your pride: partner with everyone and get them to brand their stuff as Tesla. If Tesla manage to bugger this up (given their head start) then they only have themselves to blame and the market will be merciless.

gerdesj 3y ago
Just in case I didn't spell it out: ICE: You buy a Ford/Volvo/VAG and you run it on Shell, Esso, BP etc EV: You buy a Tesla, power it with Tesla. Buy another EV - power it with ... electricity Tesla seem to have go this early on and then perhaps lost focus.
atombender 3y ago
> There is Polestar (from Norway) Minor correction: Polestar is Swedish. It is co-owned by Volvo and Geely, a Chinese car company, which in turn is an owner of Volvo. This year, Volvo stopped funding Polestar and has handed responsibility over entirely to Geely [1], and plans to get rid of their stake. So you could say Polestar is now a fully Chinese brand. Agreed about there being a lot of alternatives now. Other than MG, you can get great EVs from VW, Peugot, BMW, Audi, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, Volvo, Opel etc., ranging from very cheap (MG4, Opel Mokka) to ridiculously expensive (Lotus Eletre). [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automaker-volvo-cars-stop-funding-polestar-quarterly-earnings-above-estimates-2024-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automa...