5 ms·

Helix: Release 24.03 Highlights

69 points by frankjr 3y ago

alxmng 3y ago
Thank you. I love Helix. It’s my daily driver.
- jatins 3y ago
  What do you use it for i.e what kind of codebases are you typically working with?
  - e12e 3y ago
    Not op, but I use it for ruby/er/rails/graphql/SQL/typescript/css/html/Vue and various markdown mostly. Oh and shell, tofu/terraform, yaml - k8s/docker.
  - dcre 3y ago
    Rust and TypeScript for me.
  - alxmng 3y ago
    Everything. Rails, Haskell, Rust… I care about speed/performance above all and Helix is just faster than everything else. Zero config is icing on the cake.
weinzierl 3y ago
I love Helix as a vim user for decades. It brings fresh wind in a pretty entrenched world for people that think neovim is not neo enough. That being said, I'm pretty disappointed by the decision for an obscure plugin language. Moreover, I'm disappointed even more, that the necessity of a strong and tried and proven sandbox is not given enough attention. The recent xz disaster just proves once more that we cannot go on like this. An editor that requires tens of plugins from tens of different parties just to be usable will not have a future if it has no answer to the supply chain question. This is really not just vim and neovim, Visual Code Studio is equally bad and most full IDEs are only marginally better. In my opinion zellij is on the right track here and I had wished Helix had adopted a similar solution.
- __float 3y ago
  I didn't think Helix supported plugins, and I don't see any mention of it in the documentation. What language does it use? (Edit: I see a bit of Scheme in the GitHub repo, but to call them "plugins" are a bit of a stretch; it seems limited to mostly-declarative syntax highlighting stuff.)
  - davidkunz 3y ago
    It doesn't yet have a plugin system but they're thinking of adding one for the Steel programming language (a lisp). https://github.com/mattwparas/steel https://github.com/mattwparas/steel
    - weinzierl 3y ago
      Yes, and from what I understand there was plenty of discussion and they carefully analyzed different options. The discussion seems to be is closed now. I respect that, you cannot ponder these things forever and sometimes any decision is better than none. It's just that, unfortunately, my priorities are different from those of the Helix devs in that respect.
- multiplied 3y ago
  A code editor that doesn't support plugins is destined to die.
- boomskats 3y ago
  Are you referring to Scheme or to wasm/wasi? The sandboxing would be one of the the biggest benefits with a wasm-based plugin system, but they were waiting for the component model spec to be finalised last time I had a look. edit: looks like the plugin work is being done here https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/8675 https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/8675
- djaouen 3y ago
  If this is true, it’s a sad day for software. Not sure why some actors are intent on ruining it for the rest of us.
SirensOfTitan 3y ago
My daily driver is emacs with evil. Is Helix’s modal editing worth learning?
- laerus 3y ago
  Helix's modal editing is based on Kakoune's modal editing which is like an evolution to Vim's modal editing. You can think of it as being always in selection (visual) mode. https://github.com/mawww/kakoune?tab=readme-ov-file#selections https://github.com/mawww/kakoune?tab=readme-ov-file#selectio...
- frankjr 3y ago
  It couldn't hurt to try a different editing paradigm but as a daily Helix user but I wouldn't switch over just for that. It's different, not better or worse than Vim's.
- myaccountonhn 3y ago
  On eMacs there’s kakoune.el and meow that you can try out.
  - e12e 3y ago
    Thanks for the tip, meow looks interesting. I never got comfortable in evil-mode, but perhaps meow could be a gateway to trying emacs in anger. Still waiting for kakoune/helix mode for gnu readline... https://github.com/meow-edit/meow https://github.com/meow-edit/meow https://github.com/jmorag/kakoune.el https://github.com/jmorag/kakoune.el
- e12e 3y ago
  I moved to helix after using vim/neovim for a long time. I much prefer helix' kakoune-inspired object>verb/select>action to vi(m) verb>object. As others have said, I recommend giving it a try, eg with the tutorial. That said - if you enjoy the view from the emacs mountain top, you might find helix hill to be too small - helix is not an operating system. I prefer it that way, others might not.
yunohn 3y ago
Quite frankly, reading these release notes addressing basic features like toggling block comments is just… Makes me wonder why we engineers love reinventing the wheel with new text editors, all at various levels of brokenness.
- bobbyskelton41 3y ago
  Different needs/requirements. If there is demand for something then someone will eventually become the supplier.
  - yunohn 3y ago
    No, I think devs just love pointlessly tinkering with new tools all the time - I’m guilty of this myself too.
- frankjr 3y ago
  > basic features like toggling block comments Whether this is a basic feature depends on the languages you're using, I'm pretty sure I haven't toggled a block comment in 10+ years. Some languages don't even have them (Zig), others do but you are encouraged not to use them (Rust) and some only have those e.g. OCaml.
  - yunohn 3y ago
    My point is less around usage and prevalence, and more around reimplementing basic paradigms ad infinitum.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  By subscribing to the latest of web tech, we now get nice on/off buttons and horizontal bars in select menus. So by comparison this stuff is light years ahead!
- darthrupert 3y ago
  It's hardly just us engineers. Plenty of startups try to radically improve things instead of just joining companies that are already doing the thing. I think this is analogous.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sp33der89 3y ago
I absolutely don't mind the plugin system being a Scheme. It's a plugin for a text editor, and Steel(https://github.com/mattwparas/steel https://github.com/mattwparas/steel) seems to be a lot less of a maintenance burden than WASM plugins(besides that I find the WASM tooling to be extremely complex). But besides all that, Helix learned be that I don't need fancy plugins or endless finicking with config files and toolchains. Using a combination of other tools, like yazi and lazygit, helps me not only inside my editor but outside of it as well. And Kakoune does this even better. In that regard it has been a real eye-opener and refreshing. The downside is, it's hard to go back to other editors!
- mbStavola 3y ago
  While I understood the maintainer's arguments for wanting to adopt a Scheme-like for plugins, I can't help but be a bit disappointed. Helix being written in Rust meant that I felt very comfortable looking at the source code which gave me the confidence that if I wanted to implement something, I could reasonably do so. Furthermore, the idea that plugins could've been in Rust or Rust through WASM meant that I'd have an editor which was completely hackable in the least annoying way possible. Every time I have to learn one of these tool-specific languages I end up breathing a heavy sigh, spending a lot of time relearning things or working around weird quirks, and then ultimately giving up after writing the most basic version of what I want to do. Ultimately, this is just a me problem and I really can't complain about something I haven't paid for or substantially contributed to. Maybe it'll actually be awesome and I'll change my mind completely, maybe they'll reconsider and add Rust-based plugins. Helix as an editor is awesome and I'm just going to have to trust the developers.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    The original issue wrt. WASM for the Helix project was that WASM currently only exposes a very barebones, C-like FFI for communicating with plugins. This should be solved in the future by the WASM component model, so these choices could well be revisited.

69 points by frankjr 3y ago

alxmng 3y ago

Thank you. I love Helix. It’s my daily driver.

jatins 3y ago
What do you use it for i.e what kind of codebases are you typically working with?
- e12e 3y ago
  Not op, but I use it for ruby/er/rails/graphql/SQL/typescript/css/html/Vue and various markdown mostly. Oh and shell, tofu/terraform, yaml - k8s/docker.
- dcre 3y ago
  Rust and TypeScript for me.
- alxmng 3y ago
  Everything. Rails, Haskell, Rust… I care about speed/performance above all and Helix is just faster than everything else. Zero config is icing on the cake.

weinzierl 3y ago

I love Helix as a vim user for decades. It brings fresh wind in a pretty entrenched world for people that think neovim is not neo enough. That being said, I'm pretty disappointed by the decision for an obscure plugin language. Moreover, I'm disappointed even more, that the necessity of a strong and tried and proven sandbox is not given enough attention. The recent xz disaster just proves once more that we cannot go on like this. An editor that requires tens of plugins from tens of different parties just to be usable will not have a future if it has no answer to the supply chain question. This is really not just vim and neovim, Visual Code Studio is equally bad and most full IDEs are only marginally better. In my opinion zellij is on the right track here and I had wished Helix had adopted a similar solution.

__float 3y ago
I didn't think Helix supported plugins, and I don't see any mention of it in the documentation. What language does it use? (Edit: I see a bit of Scheme in the GitHub repo, but to call them "plugins" are a bit of a stretch; it seems limited to mostly-declarative syntax highlighting stuff.)
- davidkunz 3y ago
  It doesn't yet have a plugin system but they're thinking of adding one for the Steel programming language (a lisp). https://github.com/mattwparas/steel https://github.com/mattwparas/steel
  - weinzierl 3y ago
    Yes, and from what I understand there was plenty of discussion and they carefully analyzed different options. The discussion seems to be is closed now. I respect that, you cannot ponder these things forever and sometimes any decision is better than none. It's just that, unfortunately, my priorities are different from those of the Helix devs in that respect.
multiplied 3y ago
A code editor that doesn't support plugins is destined to die.
boomskats 3y ago
Are you referring to Scheme or to wasm/wasi? The sandboxing would be one of the the biggest benefits with a wasm-based plugin system, but they were waiting for the component model spec to be finalised last time I had a look. edit: looks like the plugin work is being done here https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/8675 https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/8675
djaouen 3y ago
If this is true, it’s a sad day for software. Not sure why some actors are intent on ruining it for the rest of us.

SirensOfTitan 3y ago

My daily driver is emacs with evil. Is Helix’s modal editing worth learning?

laerus 3y ago
Helix's modal editing is based on Kakoune's modal editing which is like an evolution to Vim's modal editing. You can think of it as being always in selection (visual) mode. https://github.com/mawww/kakoune?tab=readme-ov-file#selections https://github.com/mawww/kakoune?tab=readme-ov-file#selectio...
frankjr 3y ago
It couldn't hurt to try a different editing paradigm but as a daily Helix user but I wouldn't switch over just for that. It's different, not better or worse than Vim's.
myaccountonhn 3y ago
On eMacs there’s kakoune.el and meow that you can try out.
- e12e 3y ago
  Thanks for the tip, meow looks interesting. I never got comfortable in evil-mode, but perhaps meow could be a gateway to trying emacs in anger. Still waiting for kakoune/helix mode for gnu readline... https://github.com/meow-edit/meow https://github.com/meow-edit/meow https://github.com/jmorag/kakoune.el https://github.com/jmorag/kakoune.el
e12e 3y ago
I moved to helix after using vim/neovim for a long time. I much prefer helix' kakoune-inspired object>verb/select>action to vi(m) verb>object. As others have said, I recommend giving it a try, eg with the tutorial. That said - if you enjoy the view from the emacs mountain top, you might find helix hill to be too small - helix is not an operating system. I prefer it that way, others might not.

yunohn 3y ago

Quite frankly, reading these release notes addressing basic features like toggling block comments is just… Makes me wonder why we engineers love reinventing the wheel with new text editors, all at various levels of brokenness.

bobbyskelton41 3y ago
Different needs/requirements. If there is demand for something then someone will eventually become the supplier.
- yunohn 3y ago
  No, I think devs just love pointlessly tinkering with new tools all the time - I’m guilty of this myself too.
frankjr 3y ago
> basic features like toggling block comments Whether this is a basic feature depends on the languages you're using, I'm pretty sure I haven't toggled a block comment in 10+ years. Some languages don't even have them (Zig), others do but you are encouraged not to use them (Rust) and some only have those e.g. OCaml.
- yunohn 3y ago
  My point is less around usage and prevalence, and more around reimplementing basic paradigms ad infinitum.
threatofrain 3y ago
By subscribing to the latest of web tech, we now get nice on/off buttons and horizontal bars in select menus. So by comparison this stuff is light years ahead!
darthrupert 3y ago
It's hardly just us engineers. Plenty of startups try to radically improve things instead of just joining companies that are already doing the thing. I think this is analogous.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sp33der89 3y ago

I absolutely don't mind the plugin system being a Scheme. It's a plugin for a text editor, and Steel(https://github.com/mattwparas/steel https://github.com/mattwparas/steel) seems to be a lot less of a maintenance burden than WASM plugins(besides that I find the WASM tooling to be extremely complex). But besides all that, Helix learned be that I don't need fancy plugins or endless finicking with config files and toolchains. Using a combination of other tools, like yazi and lazygit, helps me not only inside my editor but outside of it as well. And Kakoune does this even better. In that regard it has been a real eye-opener and refreshing. The downside is, it's hard to go back to other editors!

mbStavola 3y ago
While I understood the maintainer's arguments for wanting to adopt a Scheme-like for plugins, I can't help but be a bit disappointed. Helix being written in Rust meant that I felt very comfortable looking at the source code which gave me the confidence that if I wanted to implement something, I could reasonably do so. Furthermore, the idea that plugins could've been in Rust or Rust through WASM meant that I'd have an editor which was completely hackable in the least annoying way possible. Every time I have to learn one of these tool-specific languages I end up breathing a heavy sigh, spending a lot of time relearning things or working around weird quirks, and then ultimately giving up after writing the most basic version of what I want to do. Ultimately, this is just a me problem and I really can't complain about something I haven't paid for or substantially contributed to. Maybe it'll actually be awesome and I'll change my mind completely, maybe they'll reconsider and add Rust-based plugins. Helix as an editor is awesome and I'm just going to have to trust the developers.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zozbot234 3y ago
  The original issue wrt. WASM for the Helix project was that WASM currently only exposes a very barebones, C-like FFI for communicating with plugins. This should be solved in the future by the WASM component model, so these choices could well be revisited.