5 ms·

Wife had to get an ambulance ride a few years ago in the US. She was apprehensive of getting it because this - wrong - information is repeated over and over onl

by speff 3y ago

Wife had to get an ambulance ride a few years ago in the US. She was apprehensive of getting it because this - wrong - information is repeated over and over online. It and the hospital trip cost a few hundred with insurance. This is why we don't listen to people on the internet.

subharmonicon 3y ago
Sounds like pure luck. My ambulance was “out of network” (as if I had any choice in the matter) and the charges were “unreasonable” for the services provided per the insurance company. They initially billed me for $7k. I eventually got the insurance to pay $3k of that. So $4k out of pocket. [edit to add this] I did hear on the radio that a bill was passed in California recently to help fix this to some extent but I don’t recall the details. I believe it goes into effect mid-2024.
- ksec 3y ago
  Excuse me. $7K USD for ambulance in US? I thought the OP "while ten more people file for bankruptcy because they took an ill-timed ambulance ride to the ER." was being sarcastic. And below it wrote ambulance with insurance only cost few hundred. So in US without insurance equals waiting to die or bankrupt? Wasn't there a thing about Obamacare a while ago? I mean That was the first time for many NON-US Citizen to know US doesn't have Universal Health Care system. ( Which a lot of us take for granted )
  - 1123581321 3y ago
    $7k doesn’t sound right. If you were to pay cash (no insurance) for a bog standard ambulance ride, it would typically be several hundred. And likely written off, but that’s beside the point. My family’s most expensive ambulance bill before insurance was $6k, but that was intensive care transport for our newborn. I believe we paid $250 out of pocket for that. It’s true that having to pay anything out of pocket affects when people call for ambulances. Also, keep in mind high car ownership rates mean most people drive or are driven to the ER. Ambulances are typically only used when there was on-scene medical care provided, that continues on the way to the hospital, or when transporting a patient between facilities. A minority of Americans use ambulances because they don’t have personal transportation.
    - subharmonicon 3y ago
      Search “American Medical Response” and terms like “thousands” and you’ll find story after story of 4-5k bills, some of those from 7+ years ago. Here’s one: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/16ixoc8/i_was_just_hit_with_a_4000_ambulance_bill_from https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/16ixoc8/i_... And another which links to the California Assembly Bill to try to prevent this: https://calmatters.org/health/2023/12/surprise-ambulance-bills-new-california-laws-2024/ https://calmatters.org/health/2023/12/surprise-ambulance-bil... I didn’t receive any notice of the bill until nine months later and was told it would go to collections in 30 days. My insurance company decided to reconsider whether they would pay anything after I called them, and they told AMR they would review the case which put the clock for collections on hold for about six weeks until the insurance coughed up $3k or so.
      - 1123581321 3y ago
        There is studied pricing data available. For example, Fair, an organization working against surprise bills, tells us average pricing by charge code. Before insurance, basic transport averages under a thousand. Mileage and cost of living accounts for the variation. People with huge bills before insurance are either receiving advanced care (like my infant daughter) or being transported long distances. CMS has negotiated average basic transport down to a few hundred. I’d like to see this proliferated. Dispatching keeps ambulances from refusing service in the way CMS pricing dries up proactive care availability. Certainly share your pain dealing with medical bills and receiving them after they’re overdue. I’m good at it but I know most aren’t, and they come at an overwhelming time. Also, many ambulance companies use crappy overbooked billing call centers so it’s hard to talk to someone. Reforming medical communication is part of the whole solution.
  - fingerlocks 3y ago
    It’s nonsense. When I was broke in college I had to take an ambulance, the cost was $800. I called the payment center and told them I had no insurance and it was reduced to $100. This was a large hospital in a major American city.
    - ksec 3y ago
      >I had no insurance and it was reduced to $100. This was a large hospital in a major American city. Thank You. While not perfect may be sanity is still a thing in the US.
      - effingwewt 3y ago
        What happened was the hospital weote it off. It doesn't detract from the fact that it was thousands initially. Also that's just for the ride. If they need to stabilize you in any way it's going to increase drastically. When my ex-wife was pregnant with our first child she caught valley fever and we went to the emergency room. While there a tatted-up tough as nails gang-banger came in cradling his elderly dad in his arms. He was crying hysterically that his father was having a heart attack and please help. The lady at the front desk tossed a clipboard at him and told him to fill it out and have a seat. His father was turning blue. He cried please help he's dying and her response was he should have taken an ambulance. He replied his dad didnt want to cuz he cant afford it. While crying while holding his dying father. An EMT was coming out from just having dropped someone off. He heard all this go down and told the guy to call 911. He did while the EMT took his father and placed him on the gurney to wheel him outside. He then turned around and came right back in, past the receptionist screaming at him and wheeled dude's father to the back while ignoring her. This same hospital that night told my 7 months pregnant wife with coughing fits and lesions on her legs to go home they dont have a treatment for valley fever and tried to charge us for an overnight stay and stabilization. Fuck the healthcare system in the US it's completely insane. I have way too many horror stories I've experienced personally to ever have faith in it.
      - Supermancho 3y ago
        In 2005, my 55yo uncle died of an overdose in southern california (orange county Kaiser). Ofc he had no insurance. My grandmother was billed over $2500. There are plenty of cases where insurance doesn't apply.
  - Izkata 3y ago
    Health insurance in the US is typically provided by the employer and covers the whole family, so there's a general assumption that everyone has it and it will cover some part of the cost. Medical services quote high to get as much as they can from the insurance, knowing (since everyone should have insurance) you won't be paying the whole amount. Obamacare was in part meant to cover the people missed by this. But they're required to provide emergency services even to people without insurance, and the cost isn't set in stone. It can be reduced (happened to a family member, he called and asked and I think he said they just did it even without proof) or "financial assistance provided" (says this right on a recent one I have). Haggling isn't really much of a thing here so I'd guess most people don't know those are options, or if they do are embarrassed to let people know they have financial troubles.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  What’s even sadder is those EMTs are getting paid $15/hr in the Bay Area to do 24 hour shifts ffs
latexr 3y ago
> It and the hospital trip cost a few hundred with insurance. That’s a major asterisk. People usually lob this complaint with the context of not having any insurance or somehow their insurance not covering the particular ambulance. Your story does not disprove the others.
- speff 3y ago
  At least I disclosed my asterisk. When was the last time you read about someone getting a huge bill who also said “btw I don’t have insurance”? Every time it’s just - Don’t take the ambulance or you’ll go bankrupt. And then you have people who aren’t in their right mind endangering themselves because honest discourse on the internet is dead.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
elevatedastalt 3y ago
A lot of ambulance companies are out of network. I am happy to relay countless horror stories.

by speff 3y ago

subharmonicon 3y ago

Sounds like pure luck. My ambulance was “out of network” (as if I had any choice in the matter) and the charges were “unreasonable” for the services provided per the insurance company. They initially billed me for $7k. I eventually got the insurance to pay $3k of that. So $4k out of pocket. [edit to add this] I did hear on the radio that a bill was passed in California recently to help fix this to some extent but I don’t recall the details. I believe it goes into effect mid-2024.

ksec 3y ago
Excuse me. $7K USD for ambulance in US? I thought the OP "while ten more people file for bankruptcy because they took an ill-timed ambulance ride to the ER." was being sarcastic. And below it wrote ambulance with insurance only cost few hundred. So in US without insurance equals waiting to die or bankrupt? Wasn't there a thing about Obamacare a while ago? I mean That was the first time for many NON-US Citizen to know US doesn't have Universal Health Care system. ( Which a lot of us take for granted )
- 1123581321 3y ago
  $7k doesn’t sound right. If you were to pay cash (no insurance) for a bog standard ambulance ride, it would typically be several hundred. And likely written off, but that’s beside the point. My family’s most expensive ambulance bill before insurance was $6k, but that was intensive care transport for our newborn. I believe we paid $250 out of pocket for that. It’s true that having to pay anything out of pocket affects when people call for ambulances. Also, keep in mind high car ownership rates mean most people drive or are driven to the ER. Ambulances are typically only used when there was on-scene medical care provided, that continues on the way to the hospital, or when transporting a patient between facilities. A minority of Americans use ambulances because they don’t have personal transportation.
  - subharmonicon 3y ago
    Search “American Medical Response” and terms like “thousands” and you’ll find story after story of 4-5k bills, some of those from 7+ years ago. Here’s one: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/16ixoc8/i_was_just_hit_with_a_4000_ambulance_bill_from https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/16ixoc8/i_... And another which links to the California Assembly Bill to try to prevent this: https://calmatters.org/health/2023/12/surprise-ambulance-bills-new-california-laws-2024/ https://calmatters.org/health/2023/12/surprise-ambulance-bil... I didn’t receive any notice of the bill until nine months later and was told it would go to collections in 30 days. My insurance company decided to reconsider whether they would pay anything after I called them, and they told AMR they would review the case which put the clock for collections on hold for about six weeks until the insurance coughed up $3k or so.
    - 1123581321 3y ago
      There is studied pricing data available. For example, Fair, an organization working against surprise bills, tells us average pricing by charge code. Before insurance, basic transport averages under a thousand. Mileage and cost of living accounts for the variation. People with huge bills before insurance are either receiving advanced care (like my infant daughter) or being transported long distances. CMS has negotiated average basic transport down to a few hundred. I’d like to see this proliferated. Dispatching keeps ambulances from refusing service in the way CMS pricing dries up proactive care availability. Certainly share your pain dealing with medical bills and receiving them after they’re overdue. I’m good at it but I know most aren’t, and they come at an overwhelming time. Also, many ambulance companies use crappy overbooked billing call centers so it’s hard to talk to someone. Reforming medical communication is part of the whole solution.
- fingerlocks 3y ago
  It’s nonsense. When I was broke in college I had to take an ambulance, the cost was $800. I called the payment center and told them I had no insurance and it was reduced to $100. This was a large hospital in a major American city.
  - ksec 3y ago
    >I had no insurance and it was reduced to $100. This was a large hospital in a major American city. Thank You. While not perfect may be sanity is still a thing in the US.
    - effingwewt 3y ago
      What happened was the hospital weote it off. It doesn't detract from the fact that it was thousands initially. Also that's just for the ride. If they need to stabilize you in any way it's going to increase drastically. When my ex-wife was pregnant with our first child she caught valley fever and we went to the emergency room. While there a tatted-up tough as nails gang-banger came in cradling his elderly dad in his arms. He was crying hysterically that his father was having a heart attack and please help. The lady at the front desk tossed a clipboard at him and told him to fill it out and have a seat. His father was turning blue. He cried please help he's dying and her response was he should have taken an ambulance. He replied his dad didnt want to cuz he cant afford it. While crying while holding his dying father. An EMT was coming out from just having dropped someone off. He heard all this go down and told the guy to call 911. He did while the EMT took his father and placed him on the gurney to wheel him outside. He then turned around and came right back in, past the receptionist screaming at him and wheeled dude's father to the back while ignoring her. This same hospital that night told my 7 months pregnant wife with coughing fits and lesions on her legs to go home they dont have a treatment for valley fever and tried to charge us for an overnight stay and stabilization. Fuck the healthcare system in the US it's completely insane. I have way too many horror stories I've experienced personally to ever have faith in it.
    - Supermancho 3y ago
      In 2005, my 55yo uncle died of an overdose in southern california (orange county Kaiser). Ofc he had no insurance. My grandmother was billed over $2500. There are plenty of cases where insurance doesn't apply.
- Izkata 3y ago
  Health insurance in the US is typically provided by the employer and covers the whole family, so there's a general assumption that everyone has it and it will cover some part of the cost. Medical services quote high to get as much as they can from the insurance, knowing (since everyone should have insurance) you won't be paying the whole amount. Obamacare was in part meant to cover the people missed by this. But they're required to provide emergency services even to people without insurance, and the cost isn't set in stone. It can be reduced (happened to a family member, he called and asked and I think he said they just did it even without proof) or "financial assistance provided" (says this right on a recent one I have). Haggling isn't really much of a thing here so I'd guess most people don't know those are options, or if they do are embarrassed to let people know they have financial troubles.
reducesuffering 3y ago
What’s even sadder is those EMTs are getting paid $15/hr in the Bay Area to do 24 hour shifts ffs

latexr 3y ago

> It and the hospital trip cost a few hundred with insurance. That’s a major asterisk. People usually lob this complaint with the context of not having any insurance or somehow their insurance not covering the particular ambulance. Your story does not disprove the others.

speff 3y ago
At least I disclosed my asterisk. When was the last time you read about someone getting a huge bill who also said “btw I don’t have insurance”? Every time it’s just - Don’t take the ambulance or you’ll go bankrupt. And then you have people who aren’t in their right mind endangering themselves because honest discourse on the internet is dead.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

elevatedastalt 3y ago

A lot of ambulance companies are out of network. I am happy to relay countless horror stories.