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I learned some things reading this article from 2 days ago: Boeing’s Dead Whistleblower Spoke the Truth https://www.thefp.com/p/boeings-dead-whistleblower-spo

I learned some things reading this article from 2 days ago: Boeing’s Dead Whistleblower Spoke the Truth https://www.thefp.com/p/boeings-dead-whistleblower-spoke-the-truth https://www.thefp.com/p/boeings-dead-whistleblower-spoke-the... The Free Press

zer00eyz 3y ago
The entire first half of this (tfp directly above this comment) article blindly supports the spin that there is some conspiracy where someone killed him. HIs own family goes into great detail all over the press about how he had anxiety and ptsd. That he quit his job on DR orders or the stress was going to give him a heart attack. The shit Boeing did to him was awful (stress, anxiety and ptsd) and Boeing should be blamed for that. They should be held accountable for that. Making his sucicide "Fishy" discredits the pressure he was under and its cause. Playing at the edges of conspiracy theory also serves to discredit the author of the article and the validity of everything else they are saying. The man killed himself. The actions of Boeing played a part in that.
- sudden_dystopia 3y ago
  [flagged]
- stephenhuey 3y ago
  On a previous HN discussion, plenty of people here believed it was fully possible that someone at Boeing essentially pulled the trigger and gave plenty of examples, even from a huge successful Silicon Valley company, of corporate folks doing stranger nefarious things than would be believable in film. As someone who has known multiple people who committed suicide, I'm not sure I can feel as certain as you that this was a suicide without more evidence.
  - thatguy0900 3y ago
    After reading the story of ebay execs harassing a random completely unimportant couple, to the point of repeatedly mailing them threatening or disgusting packages, I can't discredit killing a witness for a real tangible reason.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Oh yeah, I remember that one [1]. One of the bastards got five years in prison - one of the very very few exceptions to my general line of calling for prison abolishment. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/29/ebay-executive-sentenced-couple-harassment-newsletter https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/29/ebay-exec...
      - araes 3y ago
        Prefaced with, while horrifying, that may also have been one of the funnier corporate stories I've read in the last several years. Note, horrifying from the Steiner's perspective. People with private jets who can fly across America to leave bloody masks on your porch. Yet, it's cartooonishly preposterous. Seven people charged, seven guilty pleas, and the heads of Security and "Resiliency"? They flew across the country to do the equivalent of college harassment and B&E ... in a residential garage? Baugh worked for the CIA? His wife works for the CIA? Running Charlie's Angels as the security team (sorry, Jim's Angels)? Mandatory pop culture videos? What did I just read? Unfortunately, it always has a Nelson response, no matter how funny. "Aww, those are the people who run corporate America..." They run my economy. NYT Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20201213125301/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-cockroaches-stalking-scandal.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201213125301/https://www.nytim... WP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal
    - mateus1 3y ago
      Monsanto also did some pretty awful persecution to scientists… there are plenty of examples in American contemporary businesses
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- segasaturn 3y ago
  There's more than enough circumstantial evidence to support the allegations of foul play here. When people kill themselves, they usually do it somewhere private and personal to them, like inside their home, or their car. Not in the parking lot outside a courthouse.
  - lstamour 3y ago
    The article above and every other article I've read says, "he was found in his truck". That's a personal vehicle, and assuming it was locked, enough to suggest that it was self-inflicted.
    - Supermancho 3y ago
      I can close a locked door after shooting someone in the head. I'm not sure how this follows that "it's enough". After years of criticizing Boeing, he kills himself during his deposition? I don't think so.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      Prime Boeing juror material
  - dralley 3y ago
    >or their car That's where he killed himself. Inside his truck, in the parking lot.
  - isleyaardvark 3y ago
    And they generally don’t tell a friend “if anything happens to me, it's not suicide”.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      Unless its one last troll against boeing on the way out. Why go quietly if you are going to go when you have a shot to majorly embarrass the company one last time?
    - 3y ago
- whythre 3y ago
  Seems pretty convenient to the people in power that he had the courtesy to off himself before he could hurt them in court.
  - dralley 3y ago
    It. was. a. defamation. lawsuit. The second of two, because he lost the first one. People act like this was a criminal proceeding. It was not. He'd already been testifying and speaking publicly about Boeing for more than 5 years. He sued them because of Boeing's attempts to defame his character to downplay the allegations which have been public for a long time.
    - ladzoppelin 3y ago
      I am not saying your wrong but who were the faulty suppliers for all these claims? Is it possible things would start unraveling for something much bigger than it already has? The other motive would also be to send a message which it definitely did. I find it weird that he would ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forward by doing this the day after the court appearance, its strange.
      - dralley 3y ago
        What was his testimony in a civil (not criminal) lawsuit which had already been given many times before both in public and in other lawsuits going to unravel? Especially given the number of additional investigations going on? Why would I just assume that it exists? And why would it ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forwards? Was he supposed to imagine that everyone was going to start believing conspiracy theories about his death?
        ladzoppelin 3y ago
        I mean, do you really think this will not deter future whistle blowers lol? "conspiracy theories about his death" You mean like that 30 year coordinated Epstein situation?
- euroderf 3y ago
  A billion dollars here, a billion dollars there, pretty soon someone needs to be taken out of the picture.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    What billions of dollars. The man had already been on film. He already has written statements everywhere. The FAA already agreed that what he said had happened. He was in court for AIR21 case... to get money out of boeing for himself, for 10 years of early retirement. Candidly Boeing was probably paying more for the lawyers they were using to fight him than they would have paid just settling. There weren't billons on the line with this.
    - cjbgkagh 3y ago
      The reason you don’t settle is to discourage others from doing the same thing. It would also be the reason to ‘suicide’ someone even if they were not costing you much money.
      - sitkack 3y ago
        Exactly, they weren't stopping him, they were stopping every other future whistleblower. Imagine if even 3 more people stepped forward.
- foreverobama 3y ago
  [dead]
- NEETPILLED 3y ago
  [flagged]
- smsm42 3y ago
  You say it like "anxiety" and "stress" are synonymous to suicidal. I am a pretty anxious person, and sometimes have a lot of stress at work, and experienced burnout in the past too. That doesn't mean I am about to shoot myself in a motel parking lot - or anywhere else, for that matter. This binary view of mental health - either a person is "healthy" which means 100% perfect, or he's not - and then anything can be expected, including a suicide at any arbitrary time - is nonsense. It's completely legit to ask how comes the person who wasn't suicidal, and actually told people that he's not - suddenly turns to commit suicide in the middle of court testimony, without any warning signs or explanation. Saying "oh, he was anxious and stressed about work" is not a good explanation to this. Maybe there was an explanation, maybe there wasn't, but pretending "anxiety" explains it is nonsense.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    His whole lawsuit was about being forced to retire 10 years early because Boeing forced him out for whistleblowing. Thats whistleblowing as in past tense. He complained to the FAA and the FAA said 'yes John you're right'. Not to diminish your mental heath but the whole argument here is that what Boeing around "stress", "pressure" and "anxiety" was far worse. Its not like is anti whistleblower retaliation case (AIR21) was going to be some massive blemish for Boeing. It's not like it was going to be a 100 million dollar write down. It is basically "wrongful termination" that they are fighting. And it would be round 2 on this case (the first was "dismissed"). https://archive.is/iUzxR#selection-995.134-995.139 https://archive.is/iUzxR#selection-995.134-995.139 does a bit better job of surfacing more of the details. Ones that paint boeing in a far worse light without the sensationalism of a tv script murder plot.
    - smsm42 3y ago
      Being forced as whistle-blower and being suicidal are again very different things. Especially when he was in the middle of proving he's right. And right in the middle of the fight, between the testimonies, after he spent so much effort to prove he's right, he decides "fuck it all" and quits abruptly? Doesn't add up. Maybe something else happened but I just am astonished how easily people dismiss it. Ah, he was anxious and stressed? We'll, it's only natural then. No it's not.
- partiallypro 3y ago
  I don't really even get the conspiracy theory that he was murdered, if Boeing etc are all so knowing and powerful why didn't they kill him years ago, well before he could tell his tale? Now they kill him because he already spoke out and they want to put the spotlight on themselves? The whole thing doesn't really make a lot of logical sense.
  - ladzoppelin 3y ago
    "Boeing etc are all so knowing and powerful" Wait Boeing makes most of its money through military contracts, downplaying its "power" and importance is slightly disingenuous .
    - partiallypro 3y ago
      You completely missed the point that...if Boeing knew he was going to blow the whistle, and they are so powerful...they'd have killed him beforehand. Not very smart of them to kill someone AFTER they blew the whistle and then make everyone think you did it. That just puts you even more into the spotlight and his testimony is already publicly available. Doesn't sound like a great conspiracy, much less a theory.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > Boeing etc are all so knowing and powerful It sounds like you have some unrealistic overestimate of your safety against a determined criminal. This just an older gentleman, far away from home, alone, with no security. One method is to hire a junky, or a homeless person, or some other desperate person to commit a crime. Affordable to the middle class! And even if they are caught, they would not know your identity. Kadyrov regularly assassinates his critics in EU for example, and that's not even his 'territory' so to speak, https://warsawinstitute.org/kadyrovs-hitmen/ https://warsawinstitute.org/kadyrovs-hitmen/
- Cornbilly 3y ago
  It appeals to the "free thinkers"/"heterodox" (empty-headed contrarian) crowd that TFP caters to and that infests every tech website on the net.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > They should be held accountable for that. In what way, exactly? Because from where I am sitting, it appears Boeing would enjoy unconditional support of US government no matter what they do.
throw7 3y ago
On the other hand... I can imagine after testifying, the feeling that one had done all one could do. That it was finished and it was his time.
- pdonis 3y ago
  But he wasn't finished testifying. He was found dead on the morning of what was supposed to be his final day of deposition.

zer00eyz 3y ago

The entire first half of this (tfp directly above this comment) article blindly supports the spin that there is some conspiracy where someone killed him. HIs own family goes into great detail all over the press about how he had anxiety and ptsd. That he quit his job on DR orders or the stress was going to give him a heart attack. The shit Boeing did to him was awful (stress, anxiety and ptsd) and Boeing should be blamed for that. They should be held accountable for that. Making his sucicide "Fishy" discredits the pressure he was under and its cause. Playing at the edges of conspiracy theory also serves to discredit the author of the article and the validity of everything else they are saying. The man killed himself. The actions of Boeing played a part in that.

sudden_dystopia 3y ago
[flagged]
stephenhuey 3y ago
On a previous HN discussion, plenty of people here believed it was fully possible that someone at Boeing essentially pulled the trigger and gave plenty of examples, even from a huge successful Silicon Valley company, of corporate folks doing stranger nefarious things than would be believable in film. As someone who has known multiple people who committed suicide, I'm not sure I can feel as certain as you that this was a suicide without more evidence.
- thatguy0900 3y ago
  After reading the story of ebay execs harassing a random completely unimportant couple, to the point of repeatedly mailing them threatening or disgusting packages, I can't discredit killing a witness for a real tangible reason.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Oh yeah, I remember that one [1]. One of the bastards got five years in prison - one of the very very few exceptions to my general line of calling for prison abolishment. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/29/ebay-executive-sentenced-couple-harassment-newsletter https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/29/ebay-exec...
    - araes 3y ago
      Prefaced with, while horrifying, that may also have been one of the funnier corporate stories I've read in the last several years. Note, horrifying from the Steiner's perspective. People with private jets who can fly across America to leave bloody masks on your porch. Yet, it's cartooonishly preposterous. Seven people charged, seven guilty pleas, and the heads of Security and "Resiliency"? They flew across the country to do the equivalent of college harassment and B&E ... in a residential garage? Baugh worked for the CIA? His wife works for the CIA? Running Charlie's Angels as the security team (sorry, Jim's Angels)? Mandatory pop culture videos? What did I just read? Unfortunately, it always has a Nelson response, no matter how funny. "Aww, those are the people who run corporate America..." They run my economy. NYT Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20201213125301/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-cockroaches-stalking-scandal.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201213125301/https://www.nytim... WP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal
  - mateus1 3y ago
    Monsanto also did some pretty awful persecution to scientists… there are plenty of examples in American contemporary businesses
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
segasaturn 3y ago
There's more than enough circumstantial evidence to support the allegations of foul play here. When people kill themselves, they usually do it somewhere private and personal to them, like inside their home, or their car. Not in the parking lot outside a courthouse.
- lstamour 3y ago
  The article above and every other article I've read says, "he was found in his truck". That's a personal vehicle, and assuming it was locked, enough to suggest that it was self-inflicted.
  - Supermancho 3y ago
    I can close a locked door after shooting someone in the head. I'm not sure how this follows that "it's enough". After years of criticizing Boeing, he kills himself during his deposition? I don't think so.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Prime Boeing juror material
- dralley 3y ago
  >or their car That's where he killed himself. Inside his truck, in the parking lot.
- isleyaardvark 3y ago
  And they generally don’t tell a friend “if anything happens to me, it's not suicide”.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    Unless its one last troll against boeing on the way out. Why go quietly if you are going to go when you have a shot to majorly embarrass the company one last time?
  - 3y ago
whythre 3y ago
Seems pretty convenient to the people in power that he had the courtesy to off himself before he could hurt them in court.
- dralley 3y ago
  It. was. a. defamation. lawsuit. The second of two, because he lost the first one. People act like this was a criminal proceeding. It was not. He'd already been testifying and speaking publicly about Boeing for more than 5 years. He sued them because of Boeing's attempts to defame his character to downplay the allegations which have been public for a long time.
  - ladzoppelin 3y ago
    I am not saying your wrong but who were the faulty suppliers for all these claims? Is it possible things would start unraveling for something much bigger than it already has? The other motive would also be to send a message which it definitely did. I find it weird that he would ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forward by doing this the day after the court appearance, its strange.
    - dralley 3y ago
      What was his testimony in a civil (not criminal) lawsuit which had already been given many times before both in public and in other lawsuits going to unravel? Especially given the number of additional investigations going on? Why would I just assume that it exists? And why would it ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forwards? Was he supposed to imagine that everyone was going to start believing conspiracy theories about his death?
      - ladzoppelin 3y ago
        I mean, do you really think this will not deter future whistle blowers lol? "conspiracy theories about his death" You mean like that 30 year coordinated Epstein situation?
euroderf 3y ago
A billion dollars here, a billion dollars there, pretty soon someone needs to be taken out of the picture.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  What billions of dollars. The man had already been on film. He already has written statements everywhere. The FAA already agreed that what he said had happened. He was in court for AIR21 case... to get money out of boeing for himself, for 10 years of early retirement. Candidly Boeing was probably paying more for the lawyers they were using to fight him than they would have paid just settling. There weren't billons on the line with this.
  - cjbgkagh 3y ago
    The reason you don’t settle is to discourage others from doing the same thing. It would also be the reason to ‘suicide’ someone even if they were not costing you much money.
    - sitkack 3y ago
      Exactly, they weren't stopping him, they were stopping every other future whistleblower. Imagine if even 3 more people stepped forward.
foreverobama 3y ago
[dead]
NEETPILLED 3y ago
[flagged]
smsm42 3y ago
You say it like "anxiety" and "stress" are synonymous to suicidal. I am a pretty anxious person, and sometimes have a lot of stress at work, and experienced burnout in the past too. That doesn't mean I am about to shoot myself in a motel parking lot - or anywhere else, for that matter. This binary view of mental health - either a person is "healthy" which means 100% perfect, or he's not - and then anything can be expected, including a suicide at any arbitrary time - is nonsense. It's completely legit to ask how comes the person who wasn't suicidal, and actually told people that he's not - suddenly turns to commit suicide in the middle of court testimony, without any warning signs or explanation. Saying "oh, he was anxious and stressed about work" is not a good explanation to this. Maybe there was an explanation, maybe there wasn't, but pretending "anxiety" explains it is nonsense.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  His whole lawsuit was about being forced to retire 10 years early because Boeing forced him out for whistleblowing. Thats whistleblowing as in past tense. He complained to the FAA and the FAA said 'yes John you're right'. Not to diminish your mental heath but the whole argument here is that what Boeing around "stress", "pressure" and "anxiety" was far worse. Its not like is anti whistleblower retaliation case (AIR21) was going to be some massive blemish for Boeing. It's not like it was going to be a 100 million dollar write down. It is basically "wrongful termination" that they are fighting. And it would be round 2 on this case (the first was "dismissed"). https://archive.is/iUzxR#selection-995.134-995.139 https://archive.is/iUzxR#selection-995.134-995.139 does a bit better job of surfacing more of the details. Ones that paint boeing in a far worse light without the sensationalism of a tv script murder plot.
  - smsm42 3y ago
    Being forced as whistle-blower and being suicidal are again very different things. Especially when he was in the middle of proving he's right. And right in the middle of the fight, between the testimonies, after he spent so much effort to prove he's right, he decides "fuck it all" and quits abruptly? Doesn't add up. Maybe something else happened but I just am astonished how easily people dismiss it. Ah, he was anxious and stressed? We'll, it's only natural then. No it's not.
partiallypro 3y ago
I don't really even get the conspiracy theory that he was murdered, if Boeing etc are all so knowing and powerful why didn't they kill him years ago, well before he could tell his tale? Now they kill him because he already spoke out and they want to put the spotlight on themselves? The whole thing doesn't really make a lot of logical sense.
- ladzoppelin 3y ago
  "Boeing etc are all so knowing and powerful" Wait Boeing makes most of its money through military contracts, downplaying its "power" and importance is slightly disingenuous .
  - partiallypro 3y ago
    You completely missed the point that...if Boeing knew he was going to blow the whistle, and they are so powerful...they'd have killed him beforehand. Not very smart of them to kill someone AFTER they blew the whistle and then make everyone think you did it. That just puts you even more into the spotlight and his testimony is already publicly available. Doesn't sound like a great conspiracy, much less a theory.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > Boeing etc are all so knowing and powerful It sounds like you have some unrealistic overestimate of your safety against a determined criminal. This just an older gentleman, far away from home, alone, with no security. One method is to hire a junky, or a homeless person, or some other desperate person to commit a crime. Affordable to the middle class! And even if they are caught, they would not know your identity. Kadyrov regularly assassinates his critics in EU for example, and that's not even his 'territory' so to speak, https://warsawinstitute.org/kadyrovs-hitmen/ https://warsawinstitute.org/kadyrovs-hitmen/
Cornbilly 3y ago
It appeals to the "free thinkers"/"heterodox" (empty-headed contrarian) crowd that TFP caters to and that infests every tech website on the net.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> They should be held accountable for that. In what way, exactly? Because from where I am sitting, it appears Boeing would enjoy unconditional support of US government no matter what they do.

throw7 3y ago

On the other hand... I can imagine after testifying, the feeling that one had done all one could do. That it was finished and it was his time.

pdonis 3y ago
But he wasn't finished testifying. He was found dead on the morning of what was supposed to be his final day of deposition.