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Cliff Stoll, the mad scientist who wrote the book on how to hunt hackers (2019)
- dark-star 3y ago[flagged]
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- ChrisArchitect 3y ago(2019) Some more discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21830277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21830277
- jfengel 3y agoI was wondering why they'd run an article with that title. It sounds like an obituary. Instead, it's just somebody submitting old links.
- jrd259 3y agoIndeed, what's up with the "mad scientist" bit?
- delecti 3y agoGiven his presentation style, that isn't a farfetched description.
- quesera 3y agoOne of my favorite parts of Cuckoo's Egg is when Cliff asks a lawyer if he should wear a tie to court. The lawyer responds something along the lines of "At your level of abstraction, it doesn't make any difference".
- wglb 3y agoI saw him speak at a Dayton Hamvention a few years back. His energy and delivery is very much more than the usual speaker. His hair is often rather wild, adding to the appearance of a mad scientist.
- dang 3y agoNothing wrong with old links on HN! as long as they have been discussed in a while.
- funkyjazz 3y agoThe Cuckoo's Egg - Really enjoyed reading it when I was growing up. Required reading for everyone.
- olesya1979 3y ago[dead]
- pvg 3y agoCliff Stoll is also an HN user and well-known nonorientablesurfacemonger. You can read him in action most recently here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39249938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39249938
- elwell 3y agoYes, I felt honored when he replied to my comment a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29387213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29387213
- dang 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/posts?id=CliffStoll https://news.ycombinator.com/posts?id=CliffStoll
- CSMastermind 3y agoThere's something nice about this community where heroes and leading figures are still present to some extent or another. There's no investing forum I'm aware of where Warren Buffett occasionally drops in to post nor any NFL one that you'll occasionally see Tom Brady commenting in. It's something I hope hacker news never loses.
- Ajay-p 3y ago@CliffStoll is one of my childhood heroes. I ordered a Klein bottle and he drew a picture on the invoice and it melted my heart. It is now a prized possession framed on a wall next to Kevin Mitnick's business card.
- geephroh 3y agoI was replying to say the same -- I even kept the shipping box which he decorated as well. He embodies so much of the genuine intellectual curiosity, creativity, and joy of the early Internet. A really good human!
- Ajay-p 3y agoHe inspired me in ways all but two of my primary school teachers ever did.
- sys32768 3y agoDefinitely read his book The Cuckoo's Egg. Terrific story and prose. Then check out the old Nova documentary about the story: The KGB, The Computer, and Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGv5BqNL164 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGv5BqNL164
- wglb 3y agoI gave attendees a copy at my security awareness training back when I was CSO. Very accessible book.
- bjterry 3y agoI bought this book on Audible based on a random recommendation, not really knowing anything about it. On the page to buy it, it said it was released in 2020. I spent the first 80% of the book thinking that it was written in the 2010s, but intentionally written as if it were the 1980s. That is, with explanations that didn't presage the development of the Internet, and using analogies that would be understood by the people of that era. I was impressed with how perfectly the author was able to channel that era without anachronism, and even told a couple friends about this. When I learned it was written in the 1980s, I wasn't exactly shocked. But then, I learned it was written by the Klein bottle guy, and that really was shocking. It's become one of my favorite books.
- drpossum 3y agoI read Silicon Snakeoil when I was much younger in the internet's infancy and though it was completely out of touch. I think even he has admitted it didn't pan out has he predicted. Now that the internet is reaching its final form I'm not so sure anymore
- jhbadger 3y agoAnd even back then he wasn't completely wrong. Yes, people laugh at his assertion that "nobody would want to shop online rather than go to a mall" but the dot-com crash of 2000-2001 did kill off most online shopping venues. Of course Amazon survived, but it was the rare exception, like the ancestors of modern birds surviving the asteroid.
- HarryHirsch 3y agonobody would want to shop online rather than go to a mall But we do have Best Buy, where you can inspect the product before you buy it. And the wife complains about Walmart grocery shopping, where the Walmart employee picked bad vegetables or made really silly substitutions.
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- quesera 3y agoCliff Stoll was an unwelcome demonstration that not all adults are as clueless as they appear to disaffected, smarter-than-thou teenagers. Cliff showed that a smart adult with an outsized curiosity and more than a bit of persistence, could keep up -- and even marshal resources to reassert the dominance of order and adulthood. This was a good lesson, at the right time, for many people! Also, Cuckoo's Egg is an entertaining story. I read it again a few years ago, and I enjoyed it more this time than I did when it was published. :)
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago> Cliff Stoll was an unwelcome demonstration that not all adults are as clueless as they appear to disaffected, smarter-than-thou teenagers. One of the most important things people underestimate is just how powerful a group of “average” people working 9-5 for years if they get you in their cross hairs. You just have to mess up once, get lazy once, make a wrong assumption once. Meanwhile, they only have to be right once.
- zeke 3y agoI read it last year after it was mentioned here. Thought it was nice that pg had a cameo at the end of the book.
- _zagj 3y agohttps://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306 https://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirv... > Visionaries see a future of telecommuting workers, interactive libraries and multimedia classrooms. They speak of electronic town meetings and virtual communities. Commerce and business will shift from offices and malls to networks and modems. And the freedom of digital networks will make government more democratic. > Baloney. Do our computer pundits lack all common sense? The truth is no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works. Topkek. Stoll always struck me as nothing more than an opportunist with little actual technical acumen who happened to be in the right place (a university computer lab) at the right time (dark ages of computer security, and the last decade of the cold war). At best he was a siren, being one of the first to sound the alarm about the importance of security, but he could hardly do anything to actually prevent the unauthorized accesses he dramatized, and I wonder if he even would have discovered them had his adversaries cared more.
- patcon 3y agohttps://archive.is/iS8NV https://archive.is/iS8NV
- pavel_lishin 3y agoGod, I just saw his name on HN, and was afraid he'd died.
- caycep 3y agoyeah this week has spooky mojo
- alienbirds 3y agoI also thought this was an obit, relieved it is not
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- CliffStoll 3y agoRumors of my death are slightly exaggerated - Mark Twain
- Intermernet 3y agoLook out! Cliff! https://youtu.be/mJvJJaV6-Pc?si=dnCFKSEw2AZvVa5_ https://youtu.be/mJvJJaV6-Pc?si=dnCFKSEw2AZvVa5_
- mrbluecoat 3y agoCliff's book was my first introduction to cybersecurity - a fantastic read with principles that hold true today. Stealing the Network: The Complete Series Collector's Edition and Kevin Mitnick's books are also great.
- wkat4242 3y agoMine too. A relative introduced me to it and I took it out of the library. I was amazed.
- cowmix 3y agoWhen I had my little ISP here in Arizona back in the early 90s, I gave every new customer a copy of the Cuckoo's Egg.
- beej71 3y agoOne of my life's highlights was getting to meet him when I went to his house to buy a Klein bottle. Such a great and admirable human being.
- BurningFrog 3y agoI had a similar experience!
- th0ma5 3y agoCliff Stoll told all of the adults in my life constantly on television that home computers were creating criminals and that you should be suspect of anyone in life that isn't professional that seems to know too much about computers. This rhetoric is apparent in this clip: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2gujnjLrQG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2gujnjLrQG/ His premise was that only those who were working for the government or working on real computers at big companies should be trusted with their immense power. And this was sort of a second act to try to keep being invited on to TV shows or something. I'm glad he is inspiring but I just can't forgive him for this. My school system talked about getting rid of all of our computers pretty much solely because of the fear of hackers he spread.
- lukan 3y agoIs it normal, that this clip has no sound? Then it is hard to check the rhetoric. Also instagram is aweful, even more so for those without an account. Scrolling a bit down (looking for colume control) ends the clip and tells me to register to watch it again. No thank you, but so I cannot review your criticism.
- th0ma5 3y ago[flagged]
- lukan 3y agoMaybe you could use videosources that do not offer such a horrible user experience? But you don't have to and I don't have to check your links. Edit: seriously, I won't click any instagramlinks anymore. After reloading, yes, there is a little volume button, but it was half hidden under the "register popup" "check this out" banner etc. Which went away after scrolling down. Then there is no timeline. No replay like mentioned. And the content: nothing about teenage hacker criminals All in all, not convincing.
- th0ma5 3y agoNot sure what you want me to do dude, I'm sorry I'm speaking my truth and it is upsetting I guess. Take care. Edit to your edits: he wrote several books talking about computers, or more specifically, the computers of the 80s and 90s, being worthless and would lead us all astray.
- gnatman 3y agoCliff Stoll has been a frequent guest on youtube's Numberphile [0] - what an amazing personality. Quesera's comment that he has an "outsized curiosity" seems apt! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLt5AfwLFPxWJeBhzCJ_JXdaIXi_YJl7Bh https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLt5AfwLFPxWJeBhzCJ_JX...
- mafuku 3y agoI remember watching these when growing up. At the time, he was just the "eccentric klein bottle guy" to me, so learning that he's had such a storied and interesting life from this thread came as a welcome surprise. Shouldn't judge a book by the cover and all that. Speaking of which, I definitely want to read the book now.
- prepend 3y agoCliff Stoll also operates kleinbottle.com selling Klein bottles. I bought one and he included a personalized note and all sorts of fun material. I’ve never shopped from a store where I felt the owner loved his product as much. And he blogs about how he automates the inventory process. What an interesting story and how I imagine all old programmers ending up.
- readyplayernull 3y agoHis Klein bottles seller page was hijacked, then restored: https://www.kleinbottle.com/Amazon_Brand_Hijacking.html https://www.kleinbottle.com/Amazon_Brand_Hijacking.html
- davidandgoliath 3y agoTIL, I didn't even realize it was the same Cliff Stoll! I've bought a few :)
- zer0c00ler 3y agoWhenever this story comes up I think of this movie, called 23, that's tells the story from the hackers perspective. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_(film) Both stories are fascinating.
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- weinzierl 3y agoImportant life lesson everyone should watch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUZTTLpDtk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUZTTLpDtk
- jll29 3y agoStoll found a microscopic discrepancy in the accounting of a computer he was in charge of, and he got curious what might be the root cause. He (a FORTH-programming raido astronomer) than discovered that a hacker was in "his" computer, and he followed him around the world (through the network). The hacker, a person with links to communism from Germany, later committed suicide.
- CliffStoll 3y agoWow - haven’t written Forth in almost 40 years. Worked great for real-time control at observatories;
- fabianholzer 3y agoThe fellow who committed suicide, Karl Koch, was only one part of a group of four. The person who was actually caught with Cliffs help was Markus Hess.
- sakesun 3y agoI read the hacker hunting story of Cliff Stoll 35 years ago from a Thai computer magazine when I'm 12. I think he is a fairly good looking person from the photo in that monotone magazine. And I thought he must have a sage like personality. I remember his name and search for him on the internet out of curiosity when I'm in my thirties. Whoa, he is indeed a mad scientist. :)
- gabriella4151 3y ago[flagged]
- gabriella4151 3y ago[flagged]