4 ms·

I wonder what the people who were forcibly sterilized after Buck v Bell thought of Brandeis' philosophy.

handoflixue 3y ago
Could you explain a bit more about how Brandeis' philosophy relates to that case? Was he pro-sterilization, or are you just trying to imply that "experimentation"/science means you lack any morals?
- freejazz 3y ago
  I think the argument is that states are not laboratories for behaviors that violate the constitutional rights of others, or in the case of this law, go beyond the legislative branch's constitutional powers, so that just suggesting there isn't an experiment is in itself not sufficient to defend this law.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    I don’t think banning social media use by minors either violates constitutional rights or exceeds constitutional powers. And the constitutional powers of a state legislature to enact state laws are extremely broad; much more so than the powers of Congress to enact federal laws.
    - freejazz 3y ago
      Well such speech restrictions have been found unconstitutional by the supreme court in prior cases, so I'm not so sure what your "characterization" of the law and its alleged constitutionality is based upon. Further, what point is it that state legislatures have broader powers than Congress? They still have no power to exceed the boundaries of the first amendment, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make there either.
      - philwelch 3y ago
        I don’t think this law violates the First Amendment, and it wasn’t particularly clear that was your objection in the first place. I’m also not sure why you put the word “characterization” in quotes since I didn’t use it.
        freejazz 3y ago
        Because I don't think its much of a characterization. You don't? Well that's great. It never occurred to you that I might think so? Have you read any actual commentary on this law? Its by far its biggest issue
        philwelch 3y ago
        This was your comment that I was replying to, with emphasis added: > I think the argument is that states are not laboratories for behaviors that violate the constitutional rights of others, or in the case of this law, go beyond the legislative branch's constitutional powers, so that just suggesting there isn't an experiment is in itself not sufficient to defend this law. This comment implies that your objection to the law was not that it infringed upon constitutional rights, but rather that it exceeded the powers of Florida legislature. This was the point I was replying to. If that’s not the point you intended to make, then never mind.
mrkstu 3y ago
[flagged]
- xerox13ster 3y ago
  What about them? They’re not being forced into that, most are having to fight tooth and nail to be heard and to get access to the treatment. You very clearly have no idea what’s going on with trans kids. Modern trans healthcare has nothing to do with people in the past being sterilized as punishment. OTOH, this law is actually being forced on minors, even if they’re not in what you consider a punishable minority. Also, presuming you’re an adult, do you mind telling me exactly why you care so much about children being sterilized? It is a shockingly disturbing concern and makes me question your intentions in white knighting for the childbearing capability of children you do not know. The only people on earth that should matter to are the kids themselves, their parents, or their future partners, whom they will be able to choose, based on a willingness to beget children. Unless you are their parent (their parent, NOT _A_ parent) or a minor’s future partner, in which case you are a groomer, you should really stop caring about what minor children you don’t know are doing with their body. It’s fucking creepy.
  - IlllIIll 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - chownie 3y ago
      "Subjected to" is unrealistic, given the vast majority of trans people never get the chance to use them — waiting lists for treatment are so long that most trans people are forced to undergo their default puberty and then try to claw some of the changes back with hormones when they can get them. ~30,000 diagnoses of gender dysphoria in children in the US per year VS ~1300 initiating puberty blocker treatments. This is not something that happens to them, or that they are subjected to, this is something they essentially campaign for, for themselves, for years.
      - IlllIIll 3y ago

Could you explain a bit more about how Brandeis' philosophy relates to that case? Was he pro-sterilization, or are you just trying to imply that "experimentation"/science means you lack any morals?

freejazz 3y ago
I think the argument is that states are not laboratories for behaviors that violate the constitutional rights of others, or in the case of this law, go beyond the legislative branch's constitutional powers, so that just suggesting there isn't an experiment is in itself not sufficient to defend this law.
- philwelch 3y ago
  I don’t think banning social media use by minors either violates constitutional rights or exceeds constitutional powers. And the constitutional powers of a state legislature to enact state laws are extremely broad; much more so than the powers of Congress to enact federal laws.
  - freejazz 3y ago
    Well such speech restrictions have been found unconstitutional by the supreme court in prior cases, so I'm not so sure what your "characterization" of the law and its alleged constitutionality is based upon. Further, what point is it that state legislatures have broader powers than Congress? They still have no power to exceed the boundaries of the first amendment, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make there either.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      I don’t think this law violates the First Amendment, and it wasn’t particularly clear that was your objection in the first place. I’m also not sure why you put the word “characterization” in quotes since I didn’t use it.
      - freejazz 3y ago
        Because I don't think its much of a characterization. You don't? Well that's great. It never occurred to you that I might think so? Have you read any actual commentary on this law? Its by far its biggest issue
        philwelch 3y ago
        This was your comment that I was replying to, with emphasis added: > I think the argument is that states are not laboratories for behaviors that violate the constitutional rights of others, or in the case of this law, go beyond the legislative branch's constitutional powers, so that just suggesting there isn't an experiment is in itself not sufficient to defend this law. This comment implies that your objection to the law was not that it infringed upon constitutional rights, but rather that it exceeded the powers of Florida legislature. This was the point I was replying to. If that’s not the point you intended to make, then never mind.

mrkstu 3y ago

[flagged]

xerox13ster 3y ago
What about them? They’re not being forced into that, most are having to fight tooth and nail to be heard and to get access to the treatment. You very clearly have no idea what’s going on with trans kids. Modern trans healthcare has nothing to do with people in the past being sterilized as punishment. OTOH, this law is actually being forced on minors, even if they’re not in what you consider a punishable minority. Also, presuming you’re an adult, do you mind telling me exactly why you care so much about children being sterilized? It is a shockingly disturbing concern and makes me question your intentions in white knighting for the childbearing capability of children you do not know. The only people on earth that should matter to are the kids themselves, their parents, or their future partners, whom they will be able to choose, based on a willingness to beget children. Unless you are their parent (their parent, NOT _A_ parent) or a minor’s future partner, in which case you are a groomer, you should really stop caring about what minor children you don’t know are doing with their body. It’s fucking creepy.
- IlllIIll 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - chownie 3y ago
    "Subjected to" is unrealistic, given the vast majority of trans people never get the chance to use them — waiting lists for treatment are so long that most trans people are forced to undergo their default puberty and then try to claw some of the changes back with hormones when they can get them. ~30,000 diagnoses of gender dysphoria in children in the US per year VS ~1300 initiating puberty blocker treatments. This is not something that happens to them, or that they are subjected to, this is something they essentially campaign for, for themselves, for years.
    - IlllIIll 3y ago