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This seems like a much more promising avenue than lab-grown meat. Fungi are already rich in protein, are a bit closer on the tree of life to animals than plants
by elevaet 3y ago
This seems like a much more promising avenue than lab-grown meat. Fungi are already rich in protein, are a bit closer on the tree of life to animals than plants are, are sedentary by default, and are absolute chemical powerhouses.
If we can engineer a fungus to produce just the right amino profile, or whatever nutrition you're looking for, then you have a self perpetuating stock that should be much lower tech and simpler to manage than trying to grow muscle tissue in a "petri dish".
Heck, we could just be eating more mushrooms, they already are a pretty good source of protein.
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoThat's oft-repeated - rich in protein. When they have 10% of the protein of meat. How is that 'rich'? Something like 'nearly no protein, just detectable' would be more honest. Sure, you eat bushels, you get as much protein as say a big mac. Not gonna go there; almost nobody is gonna sacrifice their juicy burger for a quart of spongy fungi. Give up already.
- baxtr 3y agoafaik mushrooms contain about 2-3g protein per 100g. Meat has about 20-25g.
- elevaet 3y agoThat's true, but because mushrooms are so wet (~90% water), if you look at the numbers for dehydrated mushrooms vs meat, mushrooms start looking a lot better. I think dry mushrooms are about 30% protein by weight, which is in the ballpark of dry meat.
- IanCal 3y agoSemi related, I recommend roasting then dehydrating and blending mushrooms if you can. Mushroom powder like this is an incredible addition to many things, though my kids will eat it on its own regardless. A massive pile of mushrooms will become a tiny jar of powder. And less related, lacto ferment them. They're then outrageously good fried.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y agoPresumably it is still early days for modern agricultural fungus selection. I heard a story that thousands of years ago, corn had six kernels per cobb(might have been seven). Few generations of selective breeding and you produce monstrous varieties. Presumably we could do the same thing with fungus if we saw the economic/moral/sustainability incentives. Edit: an article about ancient corn (https://blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/news/2023/01/24/uf-researchers-discover-missing-piece-in-corns-evolutionary-history/ https://blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/news/2023/01/24/uf-researchers-di...) Teosinte is a small, grass-like plant that forms ears of six to eight kernels. Each kernel is encased in an acorn-like shell. These encased kernels grow on a thin stem, not the thick cob that characterizes modern corn. The whole ear is about two inches long, the kernels no larger than peppercorns. About 10,000 years ago, the Indigenous peoples of what is now southern Mexico began selectively breeding teosinte. Over time, those acorn-like coverings retracted and formed a cob. Now exposed, the kernels were easier to harvest and could be bred for increased number and size, Koch said.
- InSteady 3y agoHowever, if you compare the energy and resource inputs to produce that 2-3g the picture starts looking a LOT more competitive. Not to mention a very attractive nutrient profile and potential medicinal benefits (eg a lot of bioactive tryptophan metabolites).
- fragmede 3y agoThat's the "before" picture. Let's see what these scientists can get to with the "after" picture. If they can get it up to 50g/100g, I know what I'm eating.
- IanCal 3y agoThere's way more water in mushrooms too. 90+% may simply be water.
- newzisforsukas 3y agohttps://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/168436/nutrients https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/168436/n...
- ShitHNDorksSay 3y ago[flagged]
- lukan 3y ago"Heck, we could just be eating more mushrooms, they already are a pretty good source of protein. " Definitely, but mushrooms and meat also go very well together.. And I am open towards engineered mushrooms, but I doubt they will result in meat. But maybe in something that can convince enough people to reduce their meat consumption by eating that instead.
- hiddencost 3y agoYou're really missing out on the incredible variety of mushrooms. Hen of the woods, fried with batter, is next level.
- lukan 3y agoIt's not bad, I know. But add some wild boar meat, and it gets even better .. But I can also enjoy it without, yes.
- makeitdouble 3y agoTBH many of us are not looking for a replacement for meat. I personally want something that potentially tastes better, and don't really care for the "fake meat" marketing (don't need it to be red or meat like)
- Emma_Goldman 3y agoHow far is that from pre-existing products, like Quorn[1], which here in the UK is probably the main producer of vegan/vegetarian meat simulacra? The problem is that people don't like eating straight fungus, and so it is serially transformed through elaborate processing, to create meat-like products. Which it turns out are extremely unhealthy. I think you are on more promising ground in your final remark. There are plenty of whole food plant-based sources of protein that are tested, economical and low-carbon, while possessing none of the health drawbacks of 'high tech' alternatives. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn
- samatman 3y ago100g at 2.3g carbs, 1.7g fat, and 13g protein? What's extremely unhealthy about that?
- Emma_Goldman 3y agoFood, and therefore nutrition, is significantly more complicated than a ledger of macronutrients. In this particular case, I was getting at this: https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-077310 https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-077310
- samatman 3y ago> Ultra-processed foods, as defined using the Nova food classification system, encompass a broad range of ready to eat products, including packaged snacks, carbonated soft drinks, instant noodles, and ready-made meals. I'm not seeing the relevance.
- Emma_Goldman 3y agoThe list of illustrative examples may be misleading you. It is a wide category. Look at the Nova classification, then look at the ingredients list of meat substitutes. There is no debate on this point. See also: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/12/quorn-revolution-rise-ultra-processed-fake-meat https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/12/quorn-r...
- wintermutestwin 3y ago>a pretty good source of protein. Unlike many things that are referred to as a "good source of protein," mushrooms have a really great macronutrient profile: 100g of common button mushrooms = 3g protein, 3.3g carb, .3g fat Compared to Lentils (which are the best of the standard foods labeled as "good source of protein") 100g = 9g protein, 20g carb,.4g fat. The problem with lentils is that you have to eat a lot of carbs to get protein. The ratios are terrible for most other legumes, soybeans and nuts.
- JeremyNT 3y agoI think the challenges with mushrooms as "whole foods" are similar to that of greens (also "good source of protein"). Challenge one: you need a truly huge volume of the uncooked stuff to get a meaningful amount of protein out. Lentils are way more compact. Challenge two: when one cooks greens or shrooms, they tend to add a lot of oils and other stuff that destroys that ratio. The proposal on offer here solves this for shrooms by preparing a packaged patty based on them (like today's extant Quorn product). This is cool and I'd love to see it, but it's not like they're trying to replace soy/lentils (which certainly have "good enough" protein content) as agricultural staples that you can harvest and eat with minimal preparation.
- slily 3y agoPoor amino-acid composition is a major problem with non-animal protein sources. Every time we think we can "cheat" nutrition by reducing nutritional value to a small set of cherry-picked nutrients, we find that it leads to deficiencies elsewhere. It's like fad diets for technocrats.
- rdedev 3y agoWe have enough data on how to supplement enough of those macro and micro nutrients. And there's plenty of studies showing no risk of going on a full plant based diet. Like here's a video discussing plant based protein for body building. The key take away is that you need some diversity in the stuff but it's fairly easy to get there https://youtu.be/MB7rIAArV2Q https://youtu.be/MB7rIAArV2Q
- 3y ago
- ijijijjij 3y agoarent most mushrooms toxic when uncooked though... which adds some doubts
- exe34 3y agoYou can eat any mushroom once!
- devb 3y agoThere isn't enough data to say what percentage of mushrooms are toxic when uncooked. Anyway, do you eat a lot of raw meat?
- ijijijjij 3y ago> Anyway, do you eat a lot of raw meat? At least twice a week... mostly raw fish. I tend to eat some raw beef when I eat steak, but that is pretty rare.
- darby_eight 3y agoRemember that you also need to get people to desire the product, and at cost!
- mc32 3y agoLooks like GMOs will get the respect they deserve.
- dbcooper 3y agoThe critical limit with fungi, and other single cell protein foods, is the high amount of nucleic acid, which are converted into purines and then uric acid. The products have to undergo additional processing to reduce these levels before they can be consumed.
- xvilka 3y agoAlternatively, we can modify humans too to be able to metabolize uric acid just like any other mammals.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- xbmcuser 3y agoI don't completely agree I think we need to make something that tastes good, is healthy and cheap. As well as something that can also be adopted in as many of the worlds cuisines as possible instead of looking for replacements we should look for something that is liked or loved as that is the only way most people are going to decrease the use of meat. Then we need that ingredient to be adopted by the fast food type restaurant's of the world for it to penetrate into the minds of the world's populations.