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So, how does one unlearn "poverty mentality"? Having grown up lower middle class with parents from a former Eastern bloc country, I feel that my mentality has

So, how does one unlearn "poverty mentality"? Having grown up lower middle class with parents from a former Eastern bloc country, I feel that my mentality has very often held me back from taking risks in career, education and personal life, because there was no safety net to fall back on if the risky move wouldn't pay off. I'm good at surviving with very little money or food, but at the age of 42, I feel now like I had let life pass me by, having never developed ambitions or passions, and living like a "rat", is also very unappealing to potential love interests.

Jensson 3y ago
> living like a "rat", is also very unappealing to potential love interests. Yeah, women really dislike men with a poverty attitude who worry about spending money. Poor men who act as if they are rich seems to do much better than well off men who act as if they are poor.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
082349872349872 3y ago
> So, how does one unlearn "poverty mentality"? Take a few risks. Start with risks that aren't real, like going to a restaurant that no one you know has ever heard of. Once you have the experience that nothing bad happens, or if it does, it at most wasted a little money and time, work your way up to more rewarding risks. Don't go as far as the Into the Wild guy though: he never realised how much "nothing bad" happening was due to other people bailing him out until he took risks someplace where that wasn't going to happen. It's like writing a program: do it in small chunks and check each bit of functionality before committing. No hacker ever stopped writing a program because they encountered bugs now and then. Does this make sense?
euroderf 3y ago
Personal evolution does not require great leaps into the unknown. Move sideways a step or two at a time. Test the ground before you plant your foot.
j_crick 3y ago
Poverty mentality often mixes up with frugality in lifestyle, a certain disdain, discomfort, anxiety or even outright fear about living better than you "could" or "should", partly based on being afraid to lose what you purchased and feeling wasteful when purchasing something you previously considered an excess, indulgence. > how does one unlearn "poverty mentality"? Acquire things and then lose them, repeatedly. Literally throw money at the problem. One can start with more expensive consumables and luxury items, as simple as food and wine (not to mention that more expensive quality produce more often than not means healthier diet), clothing (better fabrics feel nicer on skin, better fits make you look better and improve your public image if you care about it) and cosmetic items (bodily sensations are very important for mental health, who would've thought?). Essentially you want to gradually get into "better" lifestyle and bigger spending just to show yourself it's not actually a problem, which in turn relaxes you towards seeking better opportunities and bigger earnings. Once you feel that spending more here and there can make you feel significantly better, something clicks in your monkey brain and changes your perception of what money can actually buy for you and why you would want to risk to get more of it, and that in turn changes your behavior. Just try to be self-aware about it and refrain from forbidding yourself to feel better because it's "unnecessary".
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  >> more expensive quality produce more often than not means healthier diet not sure about that, caviar, marbled steaks and fine wine would probably lose to cabbage, carrots and tap water in the health department.
  - j_crick 3y ago
    Choose both options from your suggestions, it's not that they are mutually exclusive, y'know.
harimau777 3y ago
Something that I've suspected is that "poverty mentality" may not be the full picture. It seems to me that one aspect of "poverty mentality" is a refusal to go outside of "the rules" even when doing so would clearly be within the socially acceptable gray area. I'm not talking about someone with privilege selfishly believing that the rules don't apply to them. I mean minor things like putting up a lost cat flier without a permit, ducking into a random restaurant and asking if they have napkins to clean up a spill, or teaching a small yoga class in a public park without a permit. The fear seems to be that if those in authority are given any opportunity to crack down or refuse a request then they will do so. What I have noticed is that it actually does seem like those in authority are more strict with them than they are for me (note that in this case I'm talking about people who are the same race and in some cases the same gender as me). I've come to suspect that in addition to "poverty mindset", there may also be some sort of unconscious body language or other indicators that allow people to subconsciously pickup that someone comes from poverty. I don't have any proof of this, it's just something that I've suspected. So I don't know if there would be any value in trying to look at any of these potential cues?
- sublinear 3y ago
  > one aspect of "poverty mentality" is a refusal to go outside of "the rules" ... The fear seems to be that if those in authority are given any opportunity to crack down or refuse a request then they will do so. The fear is still valid regardless of their race, ethnicity, gender, etc. if they didn't move away from the poverty. Most do move away, but not all can. I grew up poor in a poor place, but had some "rich" friends whose future was running the family business or otherwise maintaining regionally dependent wealth. If they cashed out they'd be betraying another set of "rules": their family. Their day-to-day quality of life is still significantly worse than anyone upper middle class in a major metro area suburb. They have to deal with high property crime, corrupt local government, etc. Having to hide your wealth and not many peers can be just as stressful as being poor in the first place.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  > What I have noticed is that it actually does seem like those in authority are more strict with them than they are for me Oh, people don't develop fear of authority for no reason. It's way more likely that you do not see the times society is more strict with them.
xyzelement 3y ago
You and I are the same age and from similar background... Just reading your post makes it sound like you have a little backwards (obviously I don't know your situation beyond what's written here.) You mention "potential love interests" as the last thing but that's what it's actually about, isn't it? If you're not sure you want a family and partner then "living like a rat" is kinda fine - why not live that way if that's what you want? On the other hand, if you want a family then start with that goal in mind - what has to change? If you need to upgrade your living situation so women aren't grossed out to come over, then you do that for that reason. I don't think this has to do with "poverty mentality" specifically. Plenty of poor people make do with what they have and still date, get married, and have kids - because they want those things. When you really want those things, you shape your life to achieve them.
llmblockchain 3y ago
I grew up very poor in the USA (in a housing project). I ended up becoming successful/wealthy by most people's yardstick, but it took a long time for me to grow out of the poor mindset. For the longest time I never bought anything for myself. I had half a million in income and wouldn't even buy a snack or anything because it felt "wrong" the same way I couldn't justify it when I was a kid. Before I was married I didn't even own a bed (I coded on a lawn chair in my apartment and used a cardboard box for my table. I didn't own a TV, car, etc. Even though I build things for my livelihood, I couldn't justify buying a new machine, etc. I started to come out of that mindset after getting married. I enjoyed buying things for others (my spouse, then my kids). My spouse then urged (forced) me to buy things for myself. Come to think of it, maybe I never grew out of that mindset. If I wasn't married I would still be living that way. The only reason I'm not is because my wife urges (forces) me not to. Err, get married?
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bruce343434 3y ago
    This comment struck me as unnecessarily divisive/polarizing. Who are these hateful women?
    - sublinear 3y ago
      > Who are these hateful women? Women who grew up poor :)
    - zero_k 3y ago
      Yeah, it's a bulls**t comment. Fools are dime a dozen :(
    - pierat 3y ago
      Click on the "X minutes ago" next to that Der_Einzige's post. On that page, click "flag". This commentary is just standard incel screed, and not worth a response... other than telling people how to flag.
Nifty3929 3y ago
The main blocking "poverty mentality" is focusing on getting by with what little you have, rather than focusing on producing more. In generally, it's far easier to earn an extra Dollar than to save one from your budget, especially when you're poor. Working an extra hour is hard, but it's still easier than eating less rice and beans. Getting a job that pays more money is hard, but easier than reducing your rent from $600/mo to $550/mo. The other mentality one has to break is the hopelessness, which is not at all helped by articles such as TFA here. Believing that past difficulties are inescapably holding you back robs you of the initiative, motivation and agency you could use to actually improve your life. The people who make it out of poverty are the ones who believe that their effort can improve their life.
lm28469 3y ago
I know a few people living in the east who earns 1/5th of what I do and they're happy in their small garden growing tomatoes and potatoes, who am I to judge them and their poverty mindset. Getting in line for the rat race most likely won't make you feel less of a rat. Find your own pace, don't listen to random internet users about what poverty mentality is, or that taking risk is always good, or that being a wantrepreneur is the be all end all of life
neilv 3y ago
You're not alone, and you have some good awareness. If you're currently facing real resource threats, I guess your wiring might make it very difficult to develop more luxurious ambitions or passions. (Where someone else might actually retreat into denial, and cling to distractions from survival.) But if you currently have resources and not under imminent existential threat, two naive suggestions: * Consider finding a counselor (expensive), or doing lots of (frugal) Web searching about the topic, to try to figure out how to un-condition yourself from fixating on mere survival. * For growing new ambitions and passions, have you tried experimenting, trying different things to see whether you'd like them, once you spend a significant chunk of time on them? Also, FWIW, 10 years from now, you'll probably realize that you had more agency and options now than you currently think you do. Consider that bit of info from your future self.
metalforever 3y ago
If you figure it out, let me know. It's ruining my life.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Jensson 3y ago

> living like a "rat", is also very unappealing to potential love interests. Yeah, women really dislike men with a poverty attitude who worry about spending money. Poor men who act as if they are rich seems to do much better than well off men who act as if they are poor.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

082349872349872 3y ago

> So, how does one unlearn "poverty mentality"? Take a few risks. Start with risks that aren't real, like going to a restaurant that no one you know has ever heard of. Once you have the experience that nothing bad happens, or if it does, it at most wasted a little money and time, work your way up to more rewarding risks. Don't go as far as the Into the Wild guy though: he never realised how much "nothing bad" happening was due to other people bailing him out until he took risks someplace where that wasn't going to happen. It's like writing a program: do it in small chunks and check each bit of functionality before committing. No hacker ever stopped writing a program because they encountered bugs now and then. Does this make sense?

euroderf 3y ago

Personal evolution does not require great leaps into the unknown. Move sideways a step or two at a time. Test the ground before you plant your foot.

j_crick 3y ago

Poverty mentality often mixes up with frugality in lifestyle, a certain disdain, discomfort, anxiety or even outright fear about living better than you "could" or "should", partly based on being afraid to lose what you purchased and feeling wasteful when purchasing something you previously considered an excess, indulgence. > how does one unlearn "poverty mentality"? Acquire things and then lose them, repeatedly. Literally throw money at the problem. One can start with more expensive consumables and luxury items, as simple as food and wine (not to mention that more expensive quality produce more often than not means healthier diet), clothing (better fabrics feel nicer on skin, better fits make you look better and improve your public image if you care about it) and cosmetic items (bodily sensations are very important for mental health, who would've thought?). Essentially you want to gradually get into "better" lifestyle and bigger spending just to show yourself it's not actually a problem, which in turn relaxes you towards seeking better opportunities and bigger earnings. Once you feel that spending more here and there can make you feel significantly better, something clicks in your monkey brain and changes your perception of what money can actually buy for you and why you would want to risk to get more of it, and that in turn changes your behavior. Just try to be self-aware about it and refrain from forbidding yourself to feel better because it's "unnecessary".

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
>> more expensive quality produce more often than not means healthier diet not sure about that, caviar, marbled steaks and fine wine would probably lose to cabbage, carrots and tap water in the health department.
- j_crick 3y ago
  Choose both options from your suggestions, it's not that they are mutually exclusive, y'know.

harimau777 3y ago

Something that I've suspected is that "poverty mentality" may not be the full picture. It seems to me that one aspect of "poverty mentality" is a refusal to go outside of "the rules" even when doing so would clearly be within the socially acceptable gray area. I'm not talking about someone with privilege selfishly believing that the rules don't apply to them. I mean minor things like putting up a lost cat flier without a permit, ducking into a random restaurant and asking if they have napkins to clean up a spill, or teaching a small yoga class in a public park without a permit. The fear seems to be that if those in authority are given any opportunity to crack down or refuse a request then they will do so. What I have noticed is that it actually does seem like those in authority are more strict with them than they are for me (note that in this case I'm talking about people who are the same race and in some cases the same gender as me). I've come to suspect that in addition to "poverty mindset", there may also be some sort of unconscious body language or other indicators that allow people to subconsciously pickup that someone comes from poverty. I don't have any proof of this, it's just something that I've suspected. So I don't know if there would be any value in trying to look at any of these potential cues?

sublinear 3y ago
> one aspect of "poverty mentality" is a refusal to go outside of "the rules" ... The fear seems to be that if those in authority are given any opportunity to crack down or refuse a request then they will do so. The fear is still valid regardless of their race, ethnicity, gender, etc. if they didn't move away from the poverty. Most do move away, but not all can. I grew up poor in a poor place, but had some "rich" friends whose future was running the family business or otherwise maintaining regionally dependent wealth. If they cashed out they'd be betraying another set of "rules": their family. Their day-to-day quality of life is still significantly worse than anyone upper middle class in a major metro area suburb. They have to deal with high property crime, corrupt local government, etc. Having to hide your wealth and not many peers can be just as stressful as being poor in the first place.
marcosdumay 3y ago
> What I have noticed is that it actually does seem like those in authority are more strict with them than they are for me Oh, people don't develop fear of authority for no reason. It's way more likely that you do not see the times society is more strict with them.

xyzelement 3y ago

You and I are the same age and from similar background... Just reading your post makes it sound like you have a little backwards (obviously I don't know your situation beyond what's written here.) You mention "potential love interests" as the last thing but that's what it's actually about, isn't it? If you're not sure you want a family and partner then "living like a rat" is kinda fine - why not live that way if that's what you want? On the other hand, if you want a family then start with that goal in mind - what has to change? If you need to upgrade your living situation so women aren't grossed out to come over, then you do that for that reason. I don't think this has to do with "poverty mentality" specifically. Plenty of poor people make do with what they have and still date, get married, and have kids - because they want those things. When you really want those things, you shape your life to achieve them.

llmblockchain 3y ago

I grew up very poor in the USA (in a housing project). I ended up becoming successful/wealthy by most people's yardstick, but it took a long time for me to grow out of the poor mindset. For the longest time I never bought anything for myself. I had half a million in income and wouldn't even buy a snack or anything because it felt "wrong" the same way I couldn't justify it when I was a kid. Before I was married I didn't even own a bed (I coded on a lawn chair in my apartment and used a cardboard box for my table. I didn't own a TV, car, etc. Even though I build things for my livelihood, I couldn't justify buying a new machine, etc. I started to come out of that mindset after getting married. I enjoyed buying things for others (my spouse, then my kids). My spouse then urged (forced) me to buy things for myself. Come to think of it, maybe I never grew out of that mindset. If I wasn't married I would still be living that way. The only reason I'm not is because my wife urges (forces) me not to. Err, get married?

Der_Einzige 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bruce343434 3y ago
  This comment struck me as unnecessarily divisive/polarizing. Who are these hateful women?
  - sublinear 3y ago
    > Who are these hateful women? Women who grew up poor :)
  - zero_k 3y ago
    Yeah, it's a bulls**t comment. Fools are dime a dozen :(
  - pierat 3y ago
    Click on the "X minutes ago" next to that Der_Einzige's post. On that page, click "flag". This commentary is just standard incel screed, and not worth a response... other than telling people how to flag.

Nifty3929 3y ago

The main blocking "poverty mentality" is focusing on getting by with what little you have, rather than focusing on producing more. In generally, it's far easier to earn an extra Dollar than to save one from your budget, especially when you're poor. Working an extra hour is hard, but it's still easier than eating less rice and beans. Getting a job that pays more money is hard, but easier than reducing your rent from $600/mo to $550/mo. The other mentality one has to break is the hopelessness, which is not at all helped by articles such as TFA here. Believing that past difficulties are inescapably holding you back robs you of the initiative, motivation and agency you could use to actually improve your life. The people who make it out of poverty are the ones who believe that their effort can improve their life.

lm28469 3y ago

I know a few people living in the east who earns 1/5th of what I do and they're happy in their small garden growing tomatoes and potatoes, who am I to judge them and their poverty mindset. Getting in line for the rat race most likely won't make you feel less of a rat. Find your own pace, don't listen to random internet users about what poverty mentality is, or that taking risk is always good, or that being a wantrepreneur is the be all end all of life

neilv 3y ago

You're not alone, and you have some good awareness. If you're currently facing real resource threats, I guess your wiring might make it very difficult to develop more luxurious ambitions or passions. (Where someone else might actually retreat into denial, and cling to distractions from survival.) But if you currently have resources and not under imminent existential threat, two naive suggestions: * Consider finding a counselor (expensive), or doing lots of (frugal) Web searching about the topic, to try to figure out how to un-condition yourself from fixating on mere survival. * For growing new ambitions and passions, have you tried experimenting, trying different things to see whether you'd like them, once you spend a significant chunk of time on them? Also, FWIW, 10 years from now, you'll probably realize that you had more agency and options now than you currently think you do. Consider that bit of info from your future self.

metalforever 3y ago

If you figure it out, let me know. It's ruining my life.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]