4 ms·

SBF repeatedly lied to get out of "supervillain" prison term, FTX CEO alleges

59 points by nobody9999 3y ago

drooby 3y ago
Convicted lier lies to attempt escaping the consequences of lying
iamleppert 3y ago
When will the parents face justice? They enriched themselves and the father was even working at the company while the mother was trumpeting her son all around Stanford to anyone who would listen. Much like the recent convictions of the parents in the recent school shooting, these parents that helped create a family criminal enterprise need to be brought to justice and serve time in prison right along with their son.
- reactordev 3y ago
  Basically anyone who profited off SBF giving them cash or a position in the company is liable. The issue is it’s too easy to take this too far and start suing everyone at the company that profited at all. One could make a case that the parents knew, colluded with, and championed his actions. That would be the only avenue in this case.
  - throwaway48476 3y ago
    Colluded? The parents were instrumental in the scheme. The father was the one to architect the legal structure to avoid regulation and the mothers connections to politicians kept the regulators from looking into FTX. Without them it wouldn't have been possible. The parents had enough connections to get themselves out of jail by pinning all the blame on their son.
    - reactordev 3y ago
      If that’s the case then yes, they should be involved in some sort of criminal investigation. I still like to presume innocence. But if it smells like a dog, barks like a dog, and digs in the backyard like a dog…
      - throwaway48476 3y ago
        Their political connections not only helped them further the fraud but also avoid any investigation.
- pdabbadabba 3y ago
  Maybe I'm not up to speed on this, but from your comment I take it that: 1) SBF's father worked for the company, and 2) SBF's mom bragged about him around campus. Therefore...jail? What actual crime did they commit and what's the evidence for it?
  - pavlov 3y ago
    They received a $16.4 million house in the Bahamas: https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-customer-funds-bahamas-house https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-customer-funds-bahamas-house There’s probably more grift that went their way, but this one was easy for the government to prove because their names were on the deed as owners, yet they didn’t pay anything.
    - nickff 3y ago
      Getting a house isn’t a crime; what crime did they commit? If not a crime, what civil law did they violate, which indicates that they owe some penalty or compensation? I’m not sure they’re innocent, but I’m also unsure what you’re accusing them of.
      - pavlov 3y ago
        They were FTX insiders. It’s not like they received this massive compensation out of the blue. They should be investigated as co-conspirators in their son’s proven fraud operation.
        ethbr1 3y ago
        It'd probably be hard to prove they were insiders. However, this is exactly what RICO [0] was created to prosecute. I'd assumed, given the sprawling nature of the case, FTX / SBF was already being charged under RICO. But maybe not? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Cor...
        3y ago
- jeffbee 3y ago
  When will Stanford itself face justice for being a sociopath incubator?
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    I saw a stat that if you look at Forbes' "... Under 30" list, collectively, they have been accused/charged/convicted of stealing/scamming more money than their companies have generated revenue. And then I saw a tweet a while back, that I admittedly can no longer find, that if you were to filter for "Stanford" in that list, the ratio blows out to nearly 3:1 (ill-gotten gains:revenue).
  - tim333 3y ago
    They incubated some positive stuff as well.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Possibly when they wrap up informing on a bunch of their friends and business associates.
tombert 3y ago
Obviously it's not as bad in my case, but this entire thing has made me empathize a lot more with the victims of Bernie Madoff. SBF was happy to cook the books to suit his needs, but now he's upset that there are consequences to committing felonies affecting millions of people? He wanted his sentence commuted to five or six years?? Utterly ridiculous. People have gotten worse sentences for dealing a bit of dope with no real victims. SBF stole about 14 grand from me personally, not to mention all the other victims of Gemini Earn [1] and FTX where he seemed to think that a Ponzi scheme was sustainable. [1] Yes yes I read the Gemini Earn emails too, I know the Gemini is claiming that they're going to give all our money back. I'll believe it when I see it. Until I get my money back I'm going to continue to say that it was an unregistered security that toppled over because of SBF and Genesis' fraud.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  I’m sorry you were affected, I hope it works out as well for you as possible. The problems for the victims are huge though. What’s often missed, or purposefully overlooked by people, is the appreciation of assets. If you put money in FTX and doubled it, but then lost, getting back what you originally put in is a significant harm. People made financial decisions on the basis they had increased their holdings. Another issue is how the compensation is recovered. With Madoff it was recovered from victims. That is, if you put your money in, and then over the decades took out more than you originally put in (easy given the apparent rate of return), the administrators sued you for the difference and pulled back in, some cases, millions of dollars, bankrupting people who were otherwise living off their pensions. Whether that was the morally right thing to do or not is a hard call to make, not one I would want to make, but that’s a very significant harm caused by Madoff that is often overlooked.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    > “If you put money in FTX and doubled it, but then lost, getting back what you originally put in is a significant harm” Paper wins inside a scam were never real money.
    - 3y ago
COGlory 3y ago
>According to Ray, "Bankman-Fried continues to live a life of delusion." While Ray's team continues to work to recover funds lost, which has been estimated around $10 billion, the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars. "One quintillion is one billion billions," Ray told Kaplan. "It is the number 1 followed by 18 zeros. The task of addressing filed claims and reducing them to their proper and 'allowed' amount is monumental. Mr. Bankman-Fried assumes this is a breeze. He is wrong, very wrong."
- ksherlock 3y ago
  Somebody needs to explain that number to me. I did find this in a 11/29/2023 bankruptcy filing: " As of August 24, 2023, approximately 36,000 customer claims had been filed for a total of over $16 billion ^3 ... Non-customer claims asserted against the Debtors total approximately $40 billion ..." with this footnote: 3. "Filed customer claim amounts exclude approximately 200 frivolous or errant claims totaling approximately $9.2 quintillion."
- gamepsys 3y ago
  Is it actually possible that $23.6 quintillion dollars were lost and the economy didn't crash?
  - changoplatanero 3y ago
    Its more likely that one or two wackos claimed losses of 23 quintillion dollars and the claims from all the sane people only add up to a rounding error on that amount
- tivert 3y ago
  > the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars What is that, 52,000 times the total wealth in the global economy? How could anyone quote a number like that in any serious context with a straight face? Did Bankman-Fried promise someone that he'd double their money every day, and they are expecting someone to pay out on that insane promise? https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/g... > 454.4 trillion USD – global wealth at end-2022 https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+trillion https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+t... > 23.6 quintillion / 454.4 trillion = 51936.6197183
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ivana111 3y ago
[dead]
- nkurz 3y ago
  I vouched for this comment since the irony of having it on this thread was too great. How can we give recoverydarek@gmail.com a little more legal attention? So long as people feel secure publicly advertising obvious scams like this, it seems certain we're gong to get more of them.
alecky 3y ago
[dead]

59 points by nobody9999 3y ago

Convicted lier lies to attempt escaping the consequences of lying

When will the parents face justice? They enriched themselves and the father was even working at the company while the mother was trumpeting her son all around Stanford to anyone who would listen. Much like the recent convictions of the parents in the recent school shooting, these parents that helped create a family criminal enterprise need to be brought to justice and serve time in prison right along with their son.

reactordev 3y ago
Basically anyone who profited off SBF giving them cash or a position in the company is liable. The issue is it’s too easy to take this too far and start suing everyone at the company that profited at all. One could make a case that the parents knew, colluded with, and championed his actions. That would be the only avenue in this case.
- throwaway48476 3y ago
  Colluded? The parents were instrumental in the scheme. The father was the one to architect the legal structure to avoid regulation and the mothers connections to politicians kept the regulators from looking into FTX. Without them it wouldn't have been possible. The parents had enough connections to get themselves out of jail by pinning all the blame on their son.
  - reactordev 3y ago
    If that’s the case then yes, they should be involved in some sort of criminal investigation. I still like to presume innocence. But if it smells like a dog, barks like a dog, and digs in the backyard like a dog…
    - throwaway48476 3y ago
      Their political connections not only helped them further the fraud but also avoid any investigation.
pdabbadabba 3y ago
Maybe I'm not up to speed on this, but from your comment I take it that: 1) SBF's father worked for the company, and 2) SBF's mom bragged about him around campus. Therefore...jail? What actual crime did they commit and what's the evidence for it?
- pavlov 3y ago
  They received a $16.4 million house in the Bahamas: https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-customer-funds-bahamas-house https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-customer-funds-bahamas-house There’s probably more grift that went their way, but this one was easy for the government to prove because their names were on the deed as owners, yet they didn’t pay anything.
  - nickff 3y ago
    Getting a house isn’t a crime; what crime did they commit? If not a crime, what civil law did they violate, which indicates that they owe some penalty or compensation? I’m not sure they’re innocent, but I’m also unsure what you’re accusing them of.
    - pavlov 3y ago
      They were FTX insiders. It’s not like they received this massive compensation out of the blue. They should be investigated as co-conspirators in their son’s proven fraud operation.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        It'd probably be hard to prove they were insiders. However, this is exactly what RICO [0] was created to prosecute. I'd assumed, given the sprawling nature of the case, FTX / SBF was already being charged under RICO. But maybe not? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Cor...
        3y ago
jeffbee 3y ago
When will Stanford itself face justice for being a sociopath incubator?
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  I saw a stat that if you look at Forbes' "... Under 30" list, collectively, they have been accused/charged/convicted of stealing/scamming more money than their companies have generated revenue. And then I saw a tweet a while back, that I admittedly can no longer find, that if you were to filter for "Stanford" in that list, the ratio blows out to nearly 3:1 (ill-gotten gains:revenue).
- tim333 3y ago
  They incubated some positive stuff as well.
DANmode 3y ago
Possibly when they wrap up informing on a bunch of their friends and business associates.

tombert 3y ago

Obviously it's not as bad in my case, but this entire thing has made me empathize a lot more with the victims of Bernie Madoff. SBF was happy to cook the books to suit his needs, but now he's upset that there are consequences to committing felonies affecting millions of people? He wanted his sentence commuted to five or six years?? Utterly ridiculous. People have gotten worse sentences for dealing a bit of dope with no real victims. SBF stole about 14 grand from me personally, not to mention all the other victims of Gemini Earn [1] and FTX where he seemed to think that a Ponzi scheme was sustainable. [1] Yes yes I read the Gemini Earn emails too, I know the Gemini is claiming that they're going to give all our money back. I'll believe it when I see it. Until I get my money back I'm going to continue to say that it was an unregistered security that toppled over because of SBF and Genesis' fraud.

danpalmer 3y ago
I’m sorry you were affected, I hope it works out as well for you as possible. The problems for the victims are huge though. What’s often missed, or purposefully overlooked by people, is the appreciation of assets. If you put money in FTX and doubled it, but then lost, getting back what you originally put in is a significant harm. People made financial decisions on the basis they had increased their holdings. Another issue is how the compensation is recovered. With Madoff it was recovered from victims. That is, if you put your money in, and then over the decades took out more than you originally put in (easy given the apparent rate of return), the administrators sued you for the difference and pulled back in, some cases, millions of dollars, bankrupting people who were otherwise living off their pensions. Whether that was the morally right thing to do or not is a hard call to make, not one I would want to make, but that’s a very significant harm caused by Madoff that is often overlooked.
- pavlov 3y ago
  > “If you put money in FTX and doubled it, but then lost, getting back what you originally put in is a significant harm” Paper wins inside a scam were never real money.
  - 3y ago

COGlory 3y ago

>According to Ray, "Bankman-Fried continues to live a life of delusion." While Ray's team continues to work to recover funds lost, which has been estimated around $10 billion, the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars. "One quintillion is one billion billions," Ray told Kaplan. "It is the number 1 followed by 18 zeros. The task of addressing filed claims and reducing them to their proper and 'allowed' amount is monumental. Mr. Bankman-Fried assumes this is a breeze. He is wrong, very wrong."

ksherlock 3y ago
Somebody needs to explain that number to me. I did find this in a 11/29/2023 bankruptcy filing: " As of August 24, 2023, approximately 36,000 customer claims had been filed for a total of over $16 billion ^3 ... Non-customer claims asserted against the Debtors total approximately $40 billion ..." with this footnote: 3. "Filed customer claim amounts exclude approximately 200 frivolous or errant claims totaling approximately $9.2 quintillion."
gamepsys 3y ago
Is it actually possible that $23.6 quintillion dollars were lost and the economy didn't crash?
- changoplatanero 3y ago
  Its more likely that one or two wackos claimed losses of 23 quintillion dollars and the claims from all the sane people only add up to a rounding error on that amount
tivert 3y ago
> the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars What is that, 52,000 times the total wealth in the global economy? How could anyone quote a number like that in any serious context with a straight face? Did Bankman-Fried promise someone that he'd double their money every day, and they are expecting someone to pay out on that insane promise? https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/g... > 454.4 trillion USD – global wealth at end-2022 https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+trillion https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+t... > 23.6 quintillion / 454.4 trillion = 51936.6197183

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ivana111 3y ago

[dead]

nkurz 3y ago
I vouched for this comment since the irony of having it on this thread was too great. How can we give recoverydarek@gmail.com a little more legal attention? So long as people feel secure publicly advertising obvious scams like this, it seems certain we're gong to get more of them.

alecky 3y ago

[dead]