19 ms·
What kind of fat is it? Like is it possible to avoid by avoiding too much fat?
by ianai 3y ago
What kind of fat is it? Like is it possible to avoid by avoiding too much fat?
- Turskarama 3y agoToo early to know for sure but I'm going to say it's very unlikely, the relationship between diet and body composition is rarely so straight forward.
- rustcleaner 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- water-data-dude 3y agoThat seems like a needlessly bitter response, why the antipathy?
- Cornbilly 3y agoThere is a weird crowd of people on the internet that have convinced themselves that seed oils are the cause of many ailments. It doesn’t have a ton of scientific backing but Joe Rogan promoted some guru doctor a while back that spread the idea to a lot more people.
- Dig1t 3y ago>Joe Rogan promoted You mean he did an episode where he had a conversation with the doctor? Or was the doctor a sponsor of the show where he advertised products? I don't think simply having a conversation about an idea counts as promotion. Advertising is another matter though..
- tux3 3y agoHaving a conversation in a very public place can certainly end up promoting ideas Take a popular piece of media, inject a conversation about fringe ideas with some crackpot that would have very limited reach otherwise. This gives very high visibility to very fringe ideas. Giving undue weight to fringe viewpoints is promoting those viewpoints.
- Dig1t 3y agoPromotion: "activity that supports or provides active encouragement for the furtherance of a cause" Simply discussing an idea, even giving undue weight, is not promotion. Conflating the two is dangerous as it provides justification for censorship. The free exchange of ideas and information is the only way a democracy can survive. If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas.
- lpapez 3y ago> If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. This implies the existence of a marketplace of ideas where people can freely trade thoughts. It was not the case in the past (i.e. you go to jail or are excommunicated for dissent), and it is increasingly not the case in the modern world (i.e. the algorithm is telling you what they want you to hear). You cannot have a free marketplace of ideas in a world where the forums these ideas are being discussed have an incentive of causing conflict and keeping you engaged. This is not an attack on you or anything, I just think we should all be more aware that everything we hear today has an agenda hidden behind it, which is malicious more often than honest.
- Nursie 3y ago> If the idea is bad or wrong, it will be debated and ultimately defeated in the marketplace of ideas. Sure, and I have a bridge to sell you. The marketplace of ideas is a myth predicated on the willingness of participants to promote and evaluate their ideas honestly, and due to that honesty to stop promoting such ideas when they are shown to be wrong or inadequate. It requires participants to even be interested in how good their ideas are and be open to discussing them and changing views if these ideas are found wanting. Observing real life, what we have is people flooding the zone with unmitigated faeces, either for profit or idealogical motives. They are uninterested in whether these ideas are true, good or even useful, whether there are 'better' ideas, and they often dominate through volume and repetition. Tribal cohesion ensures the spread of ideas as much or more than honest debate. The marketplace of ideas is dead, if it ever really existed. A fairytale for children.
- zer00eyz 3y agoThe saga of John Yudkin and Pure White and Deadly should give you pause. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly Or you know the article on highly processed foods that made the home page the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39746915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39746915 ... Could the seed oils thing be a bit much? Sure. Could canola and its use be part of the problem as a highly processed food. Maybe. Is any one doing the research? None of us know... Why people have some aversion to seed oils, a highly processed food: "Canola oil is made at a processing facility by slightly heating and then crushing the seed.[34] Almost all commercial canola oil is then extracted using hexane solvent, which is recovered at the end of processing. Finally, the canola oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation. Sometimes the oil is also bleached for a lighter color." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil I'm not sure that sounds like food...
- Nursie 3y ago> I'm not sure that sounds like food... A lot of things don't when you describe them in such detailed, clinical ways. You can also buy (just like you can with quality olive oils) cold pressed canola which is manufactured simply by crushing the seed. The seed oil folks would have it that this is no better, AFAICT.
- qwerpy 3y agoI’m on the same page as you regarding the anti-“saturated animal fats” crowd, but I actually don’t mind them. My animal-based cooking oil spend would be a lot higher if everyone stopped buying plant-based oils.
- dimask 3y agoYou try to avoid oxidised UFAs and you get oxidised cholesterol instead [0], which is at least as bad and probably worse [1]. [0] https://sci-hub.se/https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf970788d https://sci-hub.se/https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf97... [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.200500063 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.200500063
- rustcleaner 3y agoBiggest comment score hit in a while... (... worth it.)
- bratbag 3y ago'At least I annoyed someone' is one of the biggest red flags for a fool who thinks they are smart. Parties interested in intelligent discourse will avoid you, and lurking readers will cement their opion as opposite yours. It's the scream of a child rationalising rejection.
- gfodor 3y agoThis is true in some forums, but not on this one. On this one, posting things that are even slightly non-consensus leads to grumbling and downvotes.
- striking 3y agoFar fewer people can downvote than can upvote, though. You generally have to post something a little more evocative than "slightly non-consensus". But even taking your argument at face value, even if you take pride in having annoyed people for having expressed an opinion you find valuable, it's boring and petulant and ugly to then brag about it. Surely you can't be arguing for that kind of behavior.
- rustcleaner 3y agoYou know the saying: flak in the ass is a good sign you're on target!
- gfodor 3y agoYeah once it becomes clear you’re in the kind of forum I am talking about the satisfaction doesn’t come from the presumed effect on others but the signal that you actually may have said something important.
- solumunus 3y agoDiscounting one set of reductive misinformed ideas while putting forward another. You love to see it.
- VMG 3y ago> The matched subjects who ate meat (including poultry and fish) were more than twice as likely to become demented as their vegetarian counterparts (relative risk 2.18, p = 0.065) and the discrepancy was further widened (relative risk 2.99, p = 0.048) when past meat consumption was taken into account https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8327020/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8327020/
- jimrandomh 3y agoThat's a small observational study from 1993, with p>.05 outside of the subgroup analysis. Whatever search strategy led you to it is severely flawed.
- VMG 3y agois this better? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10517714 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10517714
- striking 3y ago> While we did not find statistically significant evidence to support an association of consuming relatively more plant- and fewer animal-based foods with the risk of dementia, our HR of 0.93 (95% CI: 0.86–1.01) for the hPDI cannot rule out a subtle beneficial effect of healthy plant-based eating on the brain. "cannot rule out a subtle effect". Otherwise not statistically significant. Great.
- 3y ago
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y agoOlive oil pulled from human consumption? Good luck with that.
- caymanjim 3y agoThe idea that eating fat leads to higher body fat is the most dangerously-wrong health misconception in history.
- _heimdall 3y agoWe've probably done more harm with the similar, and also incorrect, assumption that eating more saturated fats go directly to the blood and clog arteries.
- antiframe 3y agoCan you point to some evidence that increased saturated fat consumption does not increase LDL? Or that there is no link between serum LDL levels and plaque build up? Or are you making a different claim?
- _heimdall 3y agoDr Michael Eades is a good gateway toif you're interested. He wrote a book a while ago now titled Protein Power [1], I think he is working on an update/sequel as well. At the high level, my basic claim is that the idea that dietary saturated fat directly leads to heart attack is incorrect. The history of this claim dates back to President Eisenhower. After having a heart attack while in office he wanted to tell the public how he could avoid the same fate. Researchers cut corners to meet political targets, ignoring data that disproved their hypothesis and claimed that plaque found in cadaver arteries was made of saturated fats and that it got there due to the person's diet. The claims weren't backed up by the studies used and we were told that this was now a known fact when it wasn't. We've spent many decades since avoiding saturated fats in favor of unsaturated fats, which are highly oxidative and have concerning side effects when run through the Krebs Cycle. Dr Eades also has a few interesting talks on the subject when he walks through the Krebs Cycle and the difference of saturated and unsaturated fats in case that's helpful. I think [2] is one I watch years ago, though he has other similar talks on YouTube as well. [1] https://proteinpower.com/ https://proteinpower.com/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MTNJNAZPiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MTNJNAZPiw
- Sparkyte 3y agoProbably the combination of sugar and salt. The fats our body makes. Probably doing ketogenics and fasting reduces Alzheimer's.
- callmeal 3y agoMore likely we'll need to start paying attention to sugar intake. I've heard researchers call Alzheimer as "type 3 diabetes". This makes total sense to me since sugar consumption is a big driver of body fat accumalation.
- francisofascii 3y agoProbably the opposite. Eating more "good" fat assuming you then have less sugar. Nuts, olive oils, omega-3s, etc.
- pama 3y agoPer the Nature paper, this fat is believed to be part of an immune system response and not related to your intake or total body fat. It is also far from clear that eliminating the production or use of this fat during a microbe invasion would lead to more or less dementia down the road (a good reminder that clinical trials are useful and also risky). This work shows a very refreshing and solid hypothesis and lots of people work on it, but it’s not reason to start changing diets.
- ianai 3y agoYeah, I almost wish I hadn’t asked given the comments. Really points at an interesting mechanism though. Hopefully this means some kind of preventative or even treatment is possible.