4 ms·

Tap water is actually a re-invention. You're supposed to just be able to drink out of the river, but due to our own pollution and the lack of build up to disea

Tap water is actually a re-invention. You're supposed to just be able to drink out of the river, but due to our own pollution and the lack of build up to diseases in the water we can't drink it directly anymore.

perihelions 3y ago
I prefer "disease-free water" to "water containing unpleasant pathogens that probably won't kill me, because I've already gotten sick from them many times and maintain natural immunity". Also, immunocompromised people deserve life too. Physically weak humans wouldn't survive in the natural-selection world that preceded civilization—the purpose of human civilization is escaping, nullifying, the brutal morality of the natural world and substituting our own. Clean water is a gift of life.
- wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
  Animals are fine, and so are people who grow up drinking that. It probably strengthens certain parts of the immune system. The main reason we need to purify it is because of the stuff humans put in it.
  - wruza 3y ago
    How do you know that animals are fine?
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      Because you only see the ones who are doing fine.
      - marcosdumay 3y ago
        This. Animals in nature are incredibly healthy. You won't see any with even a deep cut.
        saghm 3y ago
        Isn't that because the ones who aren't healthy die? That sounds like saying we shouldn't bother having modern medicine because it causes us to have a lot more sick people. The problem is we wouldn't have a lot more healthy people that way; we'd have a lot more dead people.
        marcosdumay 3y ago
        That's exactly what the comment I was replying to said. An alternative explanation is that nature is some peaceful place where no animal ever gets hurt, for any reason... What would be a purely comedic exercise if people weren't believing this one all over the thread.
        wruza 3y ago
        It is. This subthread is clearly ironic.
        wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
        All my cats, dogs, horses & chickens have all been drinking rain & groundwater. They've never died of any infectious disease, nor needed treatment.
        ianburrell 3y ago
        Have they ever had the runs? Giardia can be fatal to puppies and sick dogs. The danger isn't rainwater. It is stagnant water and running water that has been contaminated. Both are more of a problem in rural and wilderness where there are animals that have been contaminated.
        daddylongstroke 3y ago
        Hmmm, most of my friends' animals (pets) kept at home, medicated, fed "pet food" and "clean" water, tend to be significantly sicker than my outside-kept animals, and always seem to have a short lifespan. They have certainly had the runs more often than my outside-only-"kept" animals. My cats literally drink stagnant water every single day, algae, bacteria, various protozoa and all. The safety'ism in HN is out of control.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      "If you ignore the worms it's all good!"
      - daddylongstroke 3y ago
        And you should, as they're largely beneficial.
    - daddylongstroke 3y ago
      ? Because we raise them, live with them, watch them live a long and healthy life?
  - iteria 3y ago
    You're forgetting the people who absolutely were not fine. If those people die in childhood often enough, that eventually gets removed from or significantly reduced in the gene pool, but people have to die first. It's like asthma. Those kids used to just die. Now we have inhalers, so it appears like asthma is on the rise when it's more that less people die from it. It looks like adults who grow up drinking that water are fine, but you're ignoring the toddlers who died from drinking that water.
  - troupo 3y ago
    There's even a whole Wikipedia page on waterborne diseases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_disease
  - pixl97 3y ago
    I have to respond here with "WTF are you talking about". You are engaging in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy without use of your critical thinking facilities. Any water source that has rotting plant material, or is exposed to the feces of animals puts you at high risk of serious illness. Some water sources will have natural bacterial contamination and/or mineral contamination (think arsenic). Absolutely huge portions of the human population died to water quality issues before the 20th century.
    - Freebytes 3y ago
      He is also saying that animals are fine. Animals are not fine. Many animals that consume water out of the river only live for five years or so. Diseases still get them.
      - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
        What are you talking about, almost all animals in wild live longer dan in captivity in Western Zoos. That's def. due to stress, but it means purified human water isn't a bigger factor then stress & movement. Animals and humans aren't stupid, we have an idea what water is safer then others.
        wruza 3y ago
        You can remove the captivity factor by looking at feral vs. domestic animal lifespans of the same species. Personally I have no idea what water is safer unless it smells, but maybe that’s my genes.
        wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
        Most dogs & cats, even cattle, drink rainwater all the time.
        daddylongstroke 3y ago
zild3d 3y ago
Pretty much since we stopped being nomadic / developed more sedentary agricultural societies
AlecSchueler 3y ago
Going to the stream with a bucket is still a lot more effort than turning a tap. And don't forget the hot water that can also come out!
adverbly 3y ago
> due to our own pollution and the lack of build up to diseases in the water I'm not sure this is exactly correct. Modern people still need to boil water to safely drink it even if the water comes from a remote area which does not have any pollution or disease. You are right that it is a reinvention though because we used to do this regularly because we had antibodies and other things which could handle whatever was in the water in small quantities. Everything we have now is so pure that our immune and digestive systems can't handle anything that isn't pure anymore.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  > Everything we have now is so pure that our immune and digestive systems can't handle anything that isn't pure anymore. Ancient people were just ok with some risk of dying. We can probably cope better with a bit of contamination than almost everybody through history. But we accept even less risk.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > Modern people still need to boil water to safely drink i Not everywhere. Drinking water in the little town I live in in Norway is merely filtered and a little aluminium sulphate added to precipitate out the solids. You absolutely could have drunk the water before that treatment with no ill effects. That's because it comes from a lake high in the hills above any industrial or agricultural activity.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Industrial and agricultural pollution are not the only potential pollutants in tap water. There are natural sources of viruses, bacteria, and parasites that exist.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    >That's because it comes from a lake high in the hills above any industrial or agricultural activity. Half correct, but not completely correct.. I'm also assuming it remains very cold or even frozen for a huge portion of the year. The water is never getting to a temperature that allows much of the dangerous things to humans to grow. For example here in Texas you're apt to get amoebas in the 25-35C waters. Also that high in the mountains you're probably getting water off mineral rock that's had very few interactions with the biosphere to accumulate wastes from animals. You don't need industrial or agricultural activity to kill you.
asia92 3y ago
You'll get parasites and random organisms if you consume water like that
knowaveragejoe 3y ago
"You're supposed to just be able to drink out of the river" seems incorrect at best
wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
Note, for those thinking I'm foolish. This an example of the last decades. Amazon Tribes are forced to now use rainwater tanks with "taps"; since the Oil companies came decades ago the water in stream & rivers are not drinkable anymore. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/28/amazon-people-turn-to-water-tanks-after-environmental-disaster https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/28/a... So that's what I mean with a re-invention, tap-water is mostly needed due to human caused pollution. Now were there pathogen in the rivers, for sure, did they get sick sometimes, most likely. Did it cause higher child mortality, I haven't been able to find data for or against that. But overall they were fine & it's up for debate whether those being exposed to small amounts of pathogens were a win or lose in the long run (some theories suggest our lack of pathogens are connected to auto-immune diseases & allergies) Also our cities of course bring a lot of sewage issues causing another issue with water streams.

perihelions 3y ago

I prefer "disease-free water" to "water containing unpleasant pathogens that probably won't kill me, because I've already gotten sick from them many times and maintain natural immunity". Also, immunocompromised people deserve life too. Physically weak humans wouldn't survive in the natural-selection world that preceded civilization—the purpose of human civilization is escaping, nullifying, the brutal morality of the natural world and substituting our own. Clean water is a gift of life.

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
Animals are fine, and so are people who grow up drinking that. It probably strengthens certain parts of the immune system. The main reason we need to purify it is because of the stuff humans put in it.
- wruza 3y ago
  How do you know that animals are fine?
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    Because you only see the ones who are doing fine.
    - marcosdumay 3y ago
      This. Animals in nature are incredibly healthy. You won't see any with even a deep cut.
      - saghm 3y ago
        Isn't that because the ones who aren't healthy die? That sounds like saying we shouldn't bother having modern medicine because it causes us to have a lot more sick people. The problem is we wouldn't have a lot more healthy people that way; we'd have a lot more dead people.
        marcosdumay 3y ago
        That's exactly what the comment I was replying to said. An alternative explanation is that nature is some peaceful place where no animal ever gets hurt, for any reason... What would be a purely comedic exercise if people weren't believing this one all over the thread.
        wruza 3y ago
        It is. This subthread is clearly ironic.
      - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
        All my cats, dogs, horses & chickens have all been drinking rain & groundwater. They've never died of any infectious disease, nor needed treatment.
        ianburrell 3y ago
        Have they ever had the runs? Giardia can be fatal to puppies and sick dogs. The danger isn't rainwater. It is stagnant water and running water that has been contaminated. Both are more of a problem in rural and wilderness where there are animals that have been contaminated.
        daddylongstroke 3y ago
        Hmmm, most of my friends' animals (pets) kept at home, medicated, fed "pet food" and "clean" water, tend to be significantly sicker than my outside-kept animals, and always seem to have a short lifespan. They have certainly had the runs more often than my outside-only-"kept" animals. My cats literally drink stagnant water every single day, algae, bacteria, various protozoa and all. The safety'ism in HN is out of control.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    "If you ignore the worms it's all good!"
    - daddylongstroke 3y ago
      And you should, as they're largely beneficial.
  - daddylongstroke 3y ago
    ? Because we raise them, live with them, watch them live a long and healthy life?
- iteria 3y ago
  You're forgetting the people who absolutely were not fine. If those people die in childhood often enough, that eventually gets removed from or significantly reduced in the gene pool, but people have to die first. It's like asthma. Those kids used to just die. Now we have inhalers, so it appears like asthma is on the rise when it's more that less people die from it. It looks like adults who grow up drinking that water are fine, but you're ignoring the toddlers who died from drinking that water.
- troupo 3y ago
  There's even a whole Wikipedia page on waterborne diseases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_disease
- pixl97 3y ago
  I have to respond here with "WTF are you talking about". You are engaging in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy without use of your critical thinking facilities. Any water source that has rotting plant material, or is exposed to the feces of animals puts you at high risk of serious illness. Some water sources will have natural bacterial contamination and/or mineral contamination (think arsenic). Absolutely huge portions of the human population died to water quality issues before the 20th century.
  - Freebytes 3y ago
    He is also saying that animals are fine. Animals are not fine. Many animals that consume water out of the river only live for five years or so. Diseases still get them.
    - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
      What are you talking about, almost all animals in wild live longer dan in captivity in Western Zoos. That's def. due to stress, but it means purified human water isn't a bigger factor then stress & movement. Animals and humans aren't stupid, we have an idea what water is safer then others.
      - wruza 3y ago
        You can remove the captivity factor by looking at feral vs. domestic animal lifespans of the same species. Personally I have no idea what water is safer unless it smells, but maybe that’s my genes.
        wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
        Most dogs & cats, even cattle, drink rainwater all the time.
        daddylongstroke 3y ago

zild3d 3y ago

Pretty much since we stopped being nomadic / developed more sedentary agricultural societies

AlecSchueler 3y ago

Going to the stream with a bucket is still a lot more effort than turning a tap. And don't forget the hot water that can also come out!

adverbly 3y ago

> due to our own pollution and the lack of build up to diseases in the water I'm not sure this is exactly correct. Modern people still need to boil water to safely drink it even if the water comes from a remote area which does not have any pollution or disease. You are right that it is a reinvention though because we used to do this regularly because we had antibodies and other things which could handle whatever was in the water in small quantities. Everything we have now is so pure that our immune and digestive systems can't handle anything that isn't pure anymore.

marcosdumay 3y ago
> Everything we have now is so pure that our immune and digestive systems can't handle anything that isn't pure anymore. Ancient people were just ok with some risk of dying. We can probably cope better with a bit of contamination than almost everybody through history. But we accept even less risk.
kwhitefoot 3y ago
> Modern people still need to boil water to safely drink i Not everywhere. Drinking water in the little town I live in in Norway is merely filtered and a little aluminium sulphate added to precipitate out the solids. You absolutely could have drunk the water before that treatment with no ill effects. That's because it comes from a lake high in the hills above any industrial or agricultural activity.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Industrial and agricultural pollution are not the only potential pollutants in tap water. There are natural sources of viruses, bacteria, and parasites that exist.
- pixl97 3y ago
  >That's because it comes from a lake high in the hills above any industrial or agricultural activity. Half correct, but not completely correct.. I'm also assuming it remains very cold or even frozen for a huge portion of the year. The water is never getting to a temperature that allows much of the dangerous things to humans to grow. For example here in Texas you're apt to get amoebas in the 25-35C waters. Also that high in the mountains you're probably getting water off mineral rock that's had very few interactions with the biosphere to accumulate wastes from animals. You don't need industrial or agricultural activity to kill you.

asia92 3y ago

You'll get parasites and random organisms if you consume water like that

knowaveragejoe 3y ago

"You're supposed to just be able to drink out of the river" seems incorrect at best

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago

Note, for those thinking I'm foolish. This an example of the last decades. Amazon Tribes are forced to now use rainwater tanks with "taps"; since the Oil companies came decades ago the water in stream & rivers are not drinkable anymore. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/28/amazon-people-turn-to-water-tanks-after-environmental-disaster https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/28/a... So that's what I mean with a re-invention, tap-water is mostly needed due to human caused pollution. Now were there pathogen in the rivers, for sure, did they get sick sometimes, most likely. Did it cause higher child mortality, I haven't been able to find data for or against that. But overall they were fine & it's up for debate whether those being exposed to small amounts of pathogens were a win or lose in the long run (some theories suggest our lack of pathogens are connected to auto-immune diseases & allergies) Also our cities of course bring a lot of sewage issues causing another issue with water streams.