4 ms·

I can't say I'm sad about properly pricing in the externalities of the world's least efficient and most wasteful food delivery mechanism.

by kibwen 3y ago

ethbr1 3y ago
Seriously. >> On cue, news stories started popping up of $26 coffees, $32 sandwiches, and $35 Wingstop orders in which taxes and the new fee comprised nearly 30 percent of the total. If people aren't leveraging below-minimum wage labor to get a single coffee delivered by a driver, whatever will we do? There was a time before food delivery apps, and it was better.
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  > There was a time before food delivery apps, and it was better. This is such weird revisionist history. Was it really better to always have to walk to the restaurant, place an order, wait 15-30 minutes, and then walk home with cold food? Were people magically unexploited in 2010 because apps didnt exist yet?
  - lupire 3y ago
    You could order a proper loaf of groceries and pop something in the microwave or toaster. Doordash isn't serving lifesaving food emergencies.
    - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
      That sounds disgusting and unhealthy
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    It used to be uncontroversial to expect people to look up the phone number of a restaurant and call it, then leave their house for a short time. That people won't take the initiative to complete a task more complicated than clicking on an app anymore isn't great. That people don't want to leave their houses and are starting to resemble the Wall-E society isn't great.
    - c22 3y ago
      I still do this. Lately though I've noticed more and more places I call have an automated prompt directing me to order online. While I can still pick it up, this flow invariably means I can't use cash, have to decide on the tip upfront, before I receive service, and removes all of my privacy and anonymity. In practice, the sphere of resturaunts I can get takeout from is steadily shrinking.
      - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
        Yeah I'm a little worried about a future where I can't show up at a place unannounced and just order and eat there or take it home.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    Conflating multiple issues here. Apps to order food efficiently are fine. Everyone wins. It's easier for the restaurant, it's easier for you. Having food delivered to your door, however, is incredibly expensive. A lot of the cost has been masked: for a while paid-in-part by VC-style below-cost funding hoping to for winner-take-all success, and by giving drivers no benefits & terrible pay.
    - xtiansimon 3y ago
      > “A lot of the cost has been masked: for a while paid-in-part by VC-style below-cost funding hoping to for winner-take-all success…” Thank you for reminding me about the browser wars 25 years ago. People were scratching their heads at the time about how internet companies like Yahoo and Google were making money, despite not having clear income streams. In the end, what? Advertising and our data. I’ve been working in the food service industry for the past 15 years. Back in the day I was scratching my head at the rise of delivery apps, mostly wondering how a business can be making money with 20-25% of the sale price as cost to participate. Now, we see it’s volume and low income delivery.
jimbokun 3y ago
Food delivery has existed for a long time at much lower cost than today. What recent developments has made it so much less efficient?
- AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
  We stopped exploiting high school kids?
  - jimbokun 3y ago
    Because teenagers are much better off staring zombie like at a screen, instead of earning money providing a service for people in a task that requires at least a little social interaction.
  - lotsoweiners 3y ago
    Why is it exploitation for a high school kid to have a part time job? Teaching youngsters the value of a dollar and giving them some life/work experience seems like a good thing to me.
    - AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
      By paying them prison wages?
      - kortilla 3y ago
        They didn’t make any less than any other service industry worker. The scam was getting them to use their own vehicle without mileage fees for depreciation. But even that’s gone now with lots of pizza places having a fleet of delivery vehicles for the drivers. To your snarky meta-point, yes, having people learn the market rates for labor is a good lesson. It’s really good for teenagers who don’t actually need the money because it’s about the lowest risk hands-on way to figure out that life is harsh to people who have limited skills for where society pours its money.
- polygamous_bat 3y ago
bartread 3y ago
Indeed. These food delivery apps/services don't seem to be able to survive without screwing over outlets, drivers/riders, and customers... which says to me that they're not real businesses, they aren't a benefit to society, and the sooner they disappear, the better.
- IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
  Not following. Restaurant wanted the deal flow. Drivers wanted the business. Customers bought in app. It seems like everyone was in on the take otherwise someone would have put an end to it vokuntarily How were they getting screwed exactly?
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    Apps don't create deal flow, they hijacked it.
mingus88 3y ago
Yep, I’m ok to see businesses fail if they can’t make a profit without everyone else subsidizing their model I can totally survive without a $35 fast food order. Can they?
readthenotes1 3y ago
I didn't see in the article or anything was properly priced. It looks like the price is so high now that there is little demand so little income to the drivers who clearly thought they were getting a good deal.

I can't say I'm sad about properly pricing in the externalities of the world's least efficient and most wasteful food delivery mechanism.

by kibwen 3y ago

I can't say I'm sad about properly pricing in the externalities of the world's least efficient and most wasteful food delivery mechanism.

ethbr1 3y ago

Seriously. >> On cue, news stories started popping up of $26 coffees, $32 sandwiches, and $35 Wingstop orders in which taxes and the new fee comprised nearly 30 percent of the total. If people aren't leveraging below-minimum wage labor to get a single coffee delivered by a driver, whatever will we do? There was a time before food delivery apps, and it was better.

syndicatedjelly 3y ago
> There was a time before food delivery apps, and it was better. This is such weird revisionist history. Was it really better to always have to walk to the restaurant, place an order, wait 15-30 minutes, and then walk home with cold food? Were people magically unexploited in 2010 because apps didnt exist yet?
- lupire 3y ago
  You could order a proper loaf of groceries and pop something in the microwave or toaster. Doordash isn't serving lifesaving food emergencies.
  - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
    That sounds disgusting and unhealthy
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  It used to be uncontroversial to expect people to look up the phone number of a restaurant and call it, then leave their house for a short time. That people won't take the initiative to complete a task more complicated than clicking on an app anymore isn't great. That people don't want to leave their houses and are starting to resemble the Wall-E society isn't great.
  - c22 3y ago
    I still do this. Lately though I've noticed more and more places I call have an automated prompt directing me to order online. While I can still pick it up, this flow invariably means I can't use cash, have to decide on the tip upfront, before I receive service, and removes all of my privacy and anonymity. In practice, the sphere of resturaunts I can get takeout from is steadily shrinking.
    - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
      Yeah I'm a little worried about a future where I can't show up at a place unannounced and just order and eat there or take it home.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Conflating multiple issues here. Apps to order food efficiently are fine. Everyone wins. It's easier for the restaurant, it's easier for you. Having food delivered to your door, however, is incredibly expensive. A lot of the cost has been masked: for a while paid-in-part by VC-style below-cost funding hoping to for winner-take-all success, and by giving drivers no benefits & terrible pay.
  - xtiansimon 3y ago
    > “A lot of the cost has been masked: for a while paid-in-part by VC-style below-cost funding hoping to for winner-take-all success…” Thank you for reminding me about the browser wars 25 years ago. People were scratching their heads at the time about how internet companies like Yahoo and Google were making money, despite not having clear income streams. In the end, what? Advertising and our data. I’ve been working in the food service industry for the past 15 years. Back in the day I was scratching my head at the rise of delivery apps, mostly wondering how a business can be making money with 20-25% of the sale price as cost to participate. Now, we see it’s volume and low income delivery.

jimbokun 3y ago

Food delivery has existed for a long time at much lower cost than today. What recent developments has made it so much less efficient?

AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
We stopped exploiting high school kids?
- jimbokun 3y ago
  Because teenagers are much better off staring zombie like at a screen, instead of earning money providing a service for people in a task that requires at least a little social interaction.
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  Why is it exploitation for a high school kid to have a part time job? Teaching youngsters the value of a dollar and giving them some life/work experience seems like a good thing to me.
  - AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
    By paying them prison wages?
    - kortilla 3y ago
      They didn’t make any less than any other service industry worker. The scam was getting them to use their own vehicle without mileage fees for depreciation. But even that’s gone now with lots of pizza places having a fleet of delivery vehicles for the drivers. To your snarky meta-point, yes, having people learn the market rates for labor is a good lesson. It’s really good for teenagers who don’t actually need the money because it’s about the lowest risk hands-on way to figure out that life is harsh to people who have limited skills for where society pours its money.
polygamous_bat 3y ago

bartread 3y ago

Indeed. These food delivery apps/services don't seem to be able to survive without screwing over outlets, drivers/riders, and customers... which says to me that they're not real businesses, they aren't a benefit to society, and the sooner they disappear, the better.

IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
Not following. Restaurant wanted the deal flow. Drivers wanted the business. Customers bought in app. It seems like everyone was in on the take otherwise someone would have put an end to it vokuntarily How were they getting screwed exactly?
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  Apps don't create deal flow, they hijacked it.

mingus88 3y ago

Yep, I’m ok to see businesses fail if they can’t make a profit without everyone else subsidizing their model I can totally survive without a $35 fast food order. Can they?

readthenotes1 3y ago

I didn't see in the article or anything was properly priced. It looks like the price is so high now that there is little demand so little income to the drivers who clearly thought they were getting a good deal.