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Ignoring everything else TikTok screwed up. They’re m being accused of having the ability to manipulate public opinion and elections. So what did they do? Pus

by MBCook 3y ago

Ignoring everything else TikTok screwed up. They’re m being accused of having the ability to manipulate public opinion and elections. So what did they do? Push alerts to millions of users telling them of a possible ban and helping them call their representatives to change a political issue’s fortunes. Oops. All of a sudden a ton of representatives who were on the fence jumped off and joined the bandwagon.

avgDev 3y ago
Apparently some kids were calling crying saying that they will kill themselves if they ban the app. Absolutely crazy. TikTok trying to sway users made a huge mistake.
- neilv 3y ago
  Or maybe trying to sway users overtly seems like a mistake? Could trying to sway users subtly have still been a win in this instance? I'd think a platform doing manipulation subtly is actually more dangerous, and the bigger potential threat from a platform. Because people being influenced would be less aware of it, and it's much harder for other parties to call out. (Although, when I look at current TV news and some other outlets, there's such blatant manipulation and dumbing-down, from both political "sides", I wonder how more than a small minority of people can tolerate watching that, much less mimicking it. And calling it out just gets tossed into ineffectual echo-chamber sports-fandom-like noise. So maybe subtle isn't as additionally threatening as I'd been assuming.)
  - tempsy 3y ago
    There’s a story every few weeks of a kid who saw some challenge on tiktok and copied it and ended up dead.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    It’s unfortunate. They went about it honestly by doing it in the open, and that provided proof that they were dangerous. If they had done it subtly, that would have proved that they had the power to do it too but if they weren’t caught it wouldn’t have blown up in their face. Of course if they were caught it would be an even bigger deal. Catch 22 for them.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > Apparently some kids were calling crying saying that they will kill themselves if they ban the app. Absolutely crazy. Darwinism.
PurpleRamen 3y ago
> They’re m being accused of having the ability to manipulate public opinion and elections. I thought it was about stealing data? > Push alerts to millions of users telling them of a possible ban and helping them call their representatives to change a political issue’s fortunes. Not pushing the alert, would have changed nothing. And to be fair, isn't this how any organization in a democratic country works? Talking to their customers to communicate their problems? Raising awareness, animating people to talk to their local politicians, that's pretty common, isn't it?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- MBCook 3y ago
  There are two arguments. Data and politics. Data seems like a sideshow to me. It’s legal and they could just buy it from data brokers anyway. It’s not like the US has any real laws against that. Political action is a fair response to the bill but they went about it in an incredibly tone deaf way.
  - okamiueru 3y ago
    I'd also include security concerns. Not as scary as anti-cheat rootkits from TenCent owned companies that millions of people willingly installed. Concerning nonetheless.
segasaturn 3y ago
How is it a mistake for TikTok to ask Americans to participate in their representative democracy? Do we not remember when Google and Facebook blacked out their sites to stop SOPA from passing, how is TikTok's notification any different?
- hparadiz 3y ago
  The whole reason this is even happening is because they've been caught pushing political content that is blatantly either pro-China or meant to stir shit up in the American population. The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government. In other words the USA is trying to strip the CCP of that power. They could've played ball and not pushed politics and we'd have left them alone to make their money but instead they tried to bite the hand that feeds.
  - segasaturn 3y ago
    > The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government Yes, the power of democracy. People spoke up and prevented a harmful law from being passed - why is TikTok exercising that right, in the same way as Google and Facebook, a problem? It sounds like you want the US to become like the CCP instead of vice versa.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      Because TikTok is owned by one of our adversaries. They’ve been accused of pushing propaganda and they just accidentally proved how effective they can be at causing political change in the US. Exactly what their opponents were afraid they had the power to do. It looks REALLY bad. In this case it wasn’t anything sinister and they were open about it but tactically it was probably a massive mistake. Also why didn’t they just tell everyone in the US? Why did only certain users get the message? Because of where they lived? Because they were voting age? They also proved they have an ability to target specific people for political action based on some (unknown) criteria. That also looks horrible and plays right into their opponents hands.
pesfandiar 3y ago
Reps all of a sudden jumped on the bandwagon because one of their largest donors (AIPAC) doesn't like how the realities are broadcast to youth unfiltered and uncontrolled.

by MBCook 3y ago

avgDev 3y ago

Apparently some kids were calling crying saying that they will kill themselves if they ban the app. Absolutely crazy. TikTok trying to sway users made a huge mistake.

neilv 3y ago
Or maybe trying to sway users overtly seems like a mistake? Could trying to sway users subtly have still been a win in this instance? I'd think a platform doing manipulation subtly is actually more dangerous, and the bigger potential threat from a platform. Because people being influenced would be less aware of it, and it's much harder for other parties to call out. (Although, when I look at current TV news and some other outlets, there's such blatant manipulation and dumbing-down, from both political "sides", I wonder how more than a small minority of people can tolerate watching that, much less mimicking it. And calling it out just gets tossed into ineffectual echo-chamber sports-fandom-like noise. So maybe subtle isn't as additionally threatening as I'd been assuming.)
- tempsy 3y ago
  There’s a story every few weeks of a kid who saw some challenge on tiktok and copied it and ended up dead.
- MBCook 3y ago
  It’s unfortunate. They went about it honestly by doing it in the open, and that provided proof that they were dangerous. If they had done it subtly, that would have proved that they had the power to do it too but if they weren’t caught it wouldn’t have blown up in their face. Of course if they were caught it would be an even bigger deal. Catch 22 for them.
nonethewiser 3y ago
> Apparently some kids were calling crying saying that they will kill themselves if they ban the app. Absolutely crazy. Darwinism.

PurpleRamen 3y ago

> They’re m being accused of having the ability to manipulate public opinion and elections. I thought it was about stealing data? > Push alerts to millions of users telling them of a possible ban and helping them call their representatives to change a political issue’s fortunes. Not pushing the alert, would have changed nothing. And to be fair, isn't this how any organization in a democratic country works? Talking to their customers to communicate their problems? Raising awareness, animating people to talk to their local politicians, that's pretty common, isn't it?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MBCook 3y ago
There are two arguments. Data and politics. Data seems like a sideshow to me. It’s legal and they could just buy it from data brokers anyway. It’s not like the US has any real laws against that. Political action is a fair response to the bill but they went about it in an incredibly tone deaf way.
- okamiueru 3y ago
  I'd also include security concerns. Not as scary as anti-cheat rootkits from TenCent owned companies that millions of people willingly installed. Concerning nonetheless.

segasaturn 3y ago

How is it a mistake for TikTok to ask Americans to participate in their representative democracy? Do we not remember when Google and Facebook blacked out their sites to stop SOPA from passing, how is TikTok's notification any different?

hparadiz 3y ago
The whole reason this is even happening is because they've been caught pushing political content that is blatantly either pro-China or meant to stir shit up in the American population. The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government. In other words the USA is trying to strip the CCP of that power. They could've played ball and not pushed politics and we'd have left them alone to make their money but instead they tried to bite the hand that feeds.
- segasaturn 3y ago
  > The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government Yes, the power of democracy. People spoke up and prevented a harmful law from being passed - why is TikTok exercising that right, in the same way as Google and Facebook, a problem? It sounds like you want the US to become like the CCP instead of vice versa.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Because TikTok is owned by one of our adversaries. They’ve been accused of pushing propaganda and they just accidentally proved how effective they can be at causing political change in the US. Exactly what their opponents were afraid they had the power to do. It looks REALLY bad. In this case it wasn’t anything sinister and they were open about it but tactically it was probably a massive mistake. Also why didn’t they just tell everyone in the US? Why did only certain users get the message? Because of where they lived? Because they were voting age? They also proved they have an ability to target specific people for political action based on some (unknown) criteria. That also looks horrible and plays right into their opponents hands.

pesfandiar 3y ago

Reps all of a sudden jumped on the bandwagon because one of their largest donors (AIPAC) doesn't like how the realities are broadcast to youth unfiltered and uncontrolled.