5 ms·

I don’t know why it matters to me, but I’ve always been put off by it being ugly and using non-native widgets. That may be the only reason I’ve paid for TablePl

by dfee 3y ago

I don’t know why it matters to me, but I’ve always been put off by it being ugly and using non-native widgets. That may be the only reason I’ve paid for TablePlus. I’d probably be fine with a great TUI interface, too. So it’s really this intermediate UI that irritates me.

ramon156 3y ago
Not good at supporting GTK either, its the sole reason I do not use it on gnome
- trillic 3y ago
  What do you use?
- dorfsmay 3y ago
  What? I use it on gnome all the time and never run into an issue.
staticlibs 3y ago
DBeaver uses SWT toolkit, its widgets are as platform-native as Java can do. Some of them can be much faster with long text editing than default Java Swing widgets.
- ptx 3y ago
  Yup, SWT is a wrapper for actual native widgets, similar to wxWidgets. Some widgets are custom though, like the horrendously ugly tab widgets, which might be what the other commenter is reacting to. And the spacing and alignment usually doesn't look great in most SWT-based apps I've seen, for some reason.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
    At least on Apple platforms, I don’t think SWT uses Apple’s layout algorithms and so you end up with Cocoa controls with slightly wrong spacing
pachico 3y ago
Ugliness is something I found to be quite common in Java based apps. I never understood why, though.
- yelsom 3y ago
  +1, except for Jetbrains IDEs that have polished UI
- staticlibs 3y ago
  None of major Java/OpenJDK contributors (Oracle, Red Hat, SAP etc) care about desktop GUI Java libs. Jet Brains do care, but they are not major. All Java progress is concentrated on backend cloud services for 10-15 years already. This can explain why Swing is so underdeveloped and JavaFX was thrown away. Basically much more effort is required to make Java GUI look and behave nicely, comparing to Delphi/Lazarus or .NET GUI libs or Qt.
  - pachico 3y ago
    I'm ignorant about this all. Can't you use something like Qt in Java?
    - gbear605 3y ago
      There are Qt bindings for Java, but I’m not familiar with them
    - adra 3y ago
      You can, but anything in java that needs to step down into c/c++ ends up being a major pain in the ass so it's usually implemented half baked at best. Platform ergonomics are hard and you usually find that what works great in some languages / paradigms just don't flourish in others. It'd be nice to see some good language bindings that feel right for java.
  - PlutoIsAPlanet 3y ago
    DataGrip does look visually better than Dbeaver, but I've found Dbeaver has much better performance.
FpUser 3y ago
It is free tool with gobbles of functionality. I use it occasionally and it works great. Whatever set of widgets it uses does not concern me at all. It does what I need and is convenient enough. Maybe it would matter more if I was spending all my work time with it but in reality I use it very occasionally. So thank to the developers. I also use another DB admin tool: HeidiSQL. This one is lightning fast. Most likely because it is native application. Written in Delphi btw Same thanks to the developer
- deergomoo 3y ago
  The default DB tool where I work is Heidi and I switched to DBeaver because I found Heidi to be horrendously unstable. Dozens of random exceptions on a daily basis, and because it’s single-threaded a long-running query will just lock up the entire UI to the point where it triggers the “this program is not responding” dialog on Windows. A free and open source DB management tool is still an impressive feat, but I absolutely would not trust it with anything where blowing up would have consequences.
  - FpUser 3y ago
    >"I found Heidi to be horrendously unstable." As already said DB admin tools are not my daily driver. I either did not use Heidi intensively enough to uncover all the problems you mentioned or they've fixed those.
    - boznz 3y ago
      No Heidi is pretty unstable compared to what it used to be. I get 2 or 3 exceptions that require me to restart daily, the good thing is that the exceptions are caught, and you can copy out any SQL you have been working on which means you rarely loose work. I still prefer it as it is fast and has a nice UI and if they can sort the crashes, I would be a convert.
RespectYourself 3y ago
[dead]
worble 3y ago
I find it absolutely baffling how often the prettiness of UI comes up as a HN comment. If you asked me objectively "do you think it's pretty?" I'd probably say no, but never once has this even occurred me when using it since I'm usually just trying to get work done, which I find it very useful for. It's a productivity tool, not an art piece I'm hanging on my wall.
- talhah 3y ago
  While your point is understandable there are various types of people. An important aspect about user experience is aesthetic and ease of use. Some people care purely about functionality and others have mixed opinions on this. It's not fair to call it petty when you guys are just two different customers and users with different needs. People sometimes forget the importance of user experience and it's why some amazing software barely gets used. Personally I care about aesthetic and consistency but willing to sacrifice depending on what I'm doing.
- selfawareMammal 3y ago
  Imo it's not just about being functional so I can get work done. It's also about enjoying what I'm doing and having aesthetic tools is important to me. It's still functionality the most important? Yes. Do I prefer non-ugly tools to ugly tools even if I had to trade a bit of functionality for a lot of prettiness? Yes, every single time (as long as I can still get done what I need to get done, ofc)
- Aeolun 3y ago
  At the same time, I find it more pleasant to use other software. DBeaver does everything I need, but it’s hardly ergonomic.
- al_borland 3y ago
  Some applications are designed so well, it makes me look for excuses to use them. Other times the good UI makes it faster and easier to get the job done. An ugly UI makes me less likely to want to use an application, and a bad/confusing one makes it harder for me to get the job done, especially if it’s used infrequently. UI and UX does matter, even when talking about productivity software. There can also be an element of inspiration and influence. If all my tools are well designed, I’m more likely to set a high bar for whatever I’m building. If I’m using ugly and poorly designed tool. The bar for whatever I’m making will likely drop to the environment I’m around.
elAhmo 3y ago
I am in the same position. I used Postico in the past, but unfortunately it doesn't offer support for non-Postgres databases. TablePlus has really good native UI and I wish more apps went that route as you can definitely feel a difference between a native app and something like DBeaver.
folmar 3y ago
I've tested it since you recommend it but it seems it can't do Postgres local connection (via socket-file = the default). Not great UX on linux.
CalRobert 3y ago
Huh, the utilitarian UI is part of why I like it
smackeyacky 3y ago
This complaint has been levelled against Java (and small talk earlier than that) since forever and it made no sense back in the 1990s either. Nobody complains about the Wild West of interfaces on web apps. On a mobile I kind of get it because having apps work in similar ways eases the learning curve (I.e burger menus etc), but all the UI paradigms being used in dbeaver are the same as any other desktop app. I appreciate the fact that it works identically on Linux as it does Windows (and presumably MacOS). Not even Microsoft maintain consistent use of widgets within their operating system, you still stumble across windows 3.0 looking screens in windows 11. I say…it’s good that dbeaver eschews native widgets
nxpnsv 3y ago
I tried tableplus, liked it, it just feels right. I reported a minor error in docs, got a friendly message and a year of license. 10/10
tylerhillery 3y ago
https://harlequin.sh/ https://harlequin.sh/ is a nice SQL IDE for you terminal (TUI)
- overtomanu 3y ago
  HN post: Harlequin: SQL IDE for Your Terminal (github.com/tconbeer) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38882526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38882526

by dfee 3y ago

ramon156 3y ago

Not good at supporting GTK either, its the sole reason I do not use it on gnome

trillic 3y ago
What do you use?
dorfsmay 3y ago
What? I use it on gnome all the time and never run into an issue.

staticlibs 3y ago

DBeaver uses SWT toolkit, its widgets are as platform-native as Java can do. Some of them can be much faster with long text editing than default Java Swing widgets.

ptx 3y ago
Yup, SWT is a wrapper for actual native widgets, similar to wxWidgets. Some widgets are custom though, like the horrendously ugly tab widgets, which might be what the other commenter is reacting to. And the spacing and alignment usually doesn't look great in most SWT-based apps I've seen, for some reason.
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
  At least on Apple platforms, I don’t think SWT uses Apple’s layout algorithms and so you end up with Cocoa controls with slightly wrong spacing

pachico 3y ago

Ugliness is something I found to be quite common in Java based apps. I never understood why, though.

yelsom 3y ago
+1, except for Jetbrains IDEs that have polished UI
staticlibs 3y ago
None of major Java/OpenJDK contributors (Oracle, Red Hat, SAP etc) care about desktop GUI Java libs. Jet Brains do care, but they are not major. All Java progress is concentrated on backend cloud services for 10-15 years already. This can explain why Swing is so underdeveloped and JavaFX was thrown away. Basically much more effort is required to make Java GUI look and behave nicely, comparing to Delphi/Lazarus or .NET GUI libs or Qt.
- pachico 3y ago
  I'm ignorant about this all. Can't you use something like Qt in Java?
  - gbear605 3y ago
    There are Qt bindings for Java, but I’m not familiar with them
  - adra 3y ago
    You can, but anything in java that needs to step down into c/c++ ends up being a major pain in the ass so it's usually implemented half baked at best. Platform ergonomics are hard and you usually find that what works great in some languages / paradigms just don't flourish in others. It'd be nice to see some good language bindings that feel right for java.
- PlutoIsAPlanet 3y ago
  DataGrip does look visually better than Dbeaver, but I've found Dbeaver has much better performance.

FpUser 3y ago

It is free tool with gobbles of functionality. I use it occasionally and it works great. Whatever set of widgets it uses does not concern me at all. It does what I need and is convenient enough. Maybe it would matter more if I was spending all my work time with it but in reality I use it very occasionally. So thank to the developers. I also use another DB admin tool: HeidiSQL. This one is lightning fast. Most likely because it is native application. Written in Delphi btw Same thanks to the developer

deergomoo 3y ago
The default DB tool where I work is Heidi and I switched to DBeaver because I found Heidi to be horrendously unstable. Dozens of random exceptions on a daily basis, and because it’s single-threaded a long-running query will just lock up the entire UI to the point where it triggers the “this program is not responding” dialog on Windows. A free and open source DB management tool is still an impressive feat, but I absolutely would not trust it with anything where blowing up would have consequences.
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"I found Heidi to be horrendously unstable." As already said DB admin tools are not my daily driver. I either did not use Heidi intensively enough to uncover all the problems you mentioned or they've fixed those.
  - boznz 3y ago
    No Heidi is pretty unstable compared to what it used to be. I get 2 or 3 exceptions that require me to restart daily, the good thing is that the exceptions are caught, and you can copy out any SQL you have been working on which means you rarely loose work. I still prefer it as it is fast and has a nice UI and if they can sort the crashes, I would be a convert.

RespectYourself 3y ago

[dead]

worble 3y ago

I find it absolutely baffling how often the prettiness of UI comes up as a HN comment. If you asked me objectively "do you think it's pretty?" I'd probably say no, but never once has this even occurred me when using it since I'm usually just trying to get work done, which I find it very useful for. It's a productivity tool, not an art piece I'm hanging on my wall.

talhah 3y ago
While your point is understandable there are various types of people. An important aspect about user experience is aesthetic and ease of use. Some people care purely about functionality and others have mixed opinions on this. It's not fair to call it petty when you guys are just two different customers and users with different needs. People sometimes forget the importance of user experience and it's why some amazing software barely gets used. Personally I care about aesthetic and consistency but willing to sacrifice depending on what I'm doing.
selfawareMammal 3y ago
Imo it's not just about being functional so I can get work done. It's also about enjoying what I'm doing and having aesthetic tools is important to me. It's still functionality the most important? Yes. Do I prefer non-ugly tools to ugly tools even if I had to trade a bit of functionality for a lot of prettiness? Yes, every single time (as long as I can still get done what I need to get done, ofc)
Aeolun 3y ago
At the same time, I find it more pleasant to use other software. DBeaver does everything I need, but it’s hardly ergonomic.
al_borland 3y ago
Some applications are designed so well, it makes me look for excuses to use them. Other times the good UI makes it faster and easier to get the job done. An ugly UI makes me less likely to want to use an application, and a bad/confusing one makes it harder for me to get the job done, especially if it’s used infrequently. UI and UX does matter, even when talking about productivity software. There can also be an element of inspiration and influence. If all my tools are well designed, I’m more likely to set a high bar for whatever I’m building. If I’m using ugly and poorly designed tool. The bar for whatever I’m making will likely drop to the environment I’m around.

elAhmo 3y ago

I am in the same position. I used Postico in the past, but unfortunately it doesn't offer support for non-Postgres databases. TablePlus has really good native UI and I wish more apps went that route as you can definitely feel a difference between a native app and something like DBeaver.

folmar 3y ago

I've tested it since you recommend it but it seems it can't do Postgres local connection (via socket-file = the default). Not great UX on linux.

CalRobert 3y ago

Huh, the utilitarian UI is part of why I like it

smackeyacky 3y ago

This complaint has been levelled against Java (and small talk earlier than that) since forever and it made no sense back in the 1990s either. Nobody complains about the Wild West of interfaces on web apps. On a mobile I kind of get it because having apps work in similar ways eases the learning curve (I.e burger menus etc), but all the UI paradigms being used in dbeaver are the same as any other desktop app. I appreciate the fact that it works identically on Linux as it does Windows (and presumably MacOS). Not even Microsoft maintain consistent use of widgets within their operating system, you still stumble across windows 3.0 looking screens in windows 11. I say…it’s good that dbeaver eschews native widgets

nxpnsv 3y ago

I tried tableplus, liked it, it just feels right. I reported a minor error in docs, got a friendly message and a year of license. 10/10

tylerhillery 3y ago

https://harlequin.sh/ https://harlequin.sh/ is a nice SQL IDE for you terminal (TUI)

overtomanu 3y ago
HN post: Harlequin: SQL IDE for Your Terminal (github.com/tconbeer) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38882526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38882526