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The no sale requirements in the "contract" is interesting. However, is the following actually legal in the US? > You have only yourself to blame. Once you get

The no sale requirements in the "contract" is interesting. However, is the following actually legal in the US? > You have only yourself to blame. Once you get the unlock code, your device is no longer covered by the Motorola warranty; in other words, please don't blame us if things go wrong, even if they appear unrelated to unlocking the bootloader. In Australia they can revoke the "Motorola warranty" all they want. However, everything sold comes with a warranty that can't be revoked which entitles you to repair, replacement or refund for a reasonable time frame (yes it's intentionally open ended). You have to be using the item as intended, but if the company lets you unlock the device, then that's an intended use case. Even if you do "unlock a device" against a company's wishes, you're able to make warranty claims against the individual parts which are being used as intended. The company would have to demonstrate your tampering was responsible for the damage. I'm aware the US does not have these same consumer rights, but can a company revoke a warranty?

IncreasePosts 3y ago
Not generally - they can refuse a warranty service if it seems like the custom modification you made is causing whatever issue you're trying to use the warranty for, but they can't deny it if it unrelated. So if you have a warranty on your car, and you put a custom engine in it, and then it turns out you received defective seatbelts, the warranty is still active. But if your drive train is trashed from the extra power of the new engine, then the warranty will not be honored.
userbinator 3y ago
The US has the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
Warranties are just normal contracts. If both parties agree to modify a contract, they are pretty much always allowed to do so. In this case, Motorola is offering a second contract, which modifies an earlier agreement (the warranty) in exchange for the key to unlocking one's phone.
- Sakos 3y ago
  > Warranties are just normal contracts. If both parties agree to modify a contract, they are pretty much always allowed to do so. In this case, Motorola is offering a second contract, which modifies an earlier agreement (the warranty) in exchange for the key to unlocking one's phone. That's just not true. Most countries have regulations, or concrete laws, around what manufacturers and retailers are required to offer as warranty, as well as when they're allowed to refuse honoring the warranty. It's not just a "contract". The same way you can't just sign away your labor rights in Germany, for example. Doesn't matter if it's a contract. Laws determine what contracts are actually allowed to do.
- smt88 3y ago
  You can't just put anything in a contract and expect a judge to enforce it. Contracts have limits determined by statutes and common law. People also have rights that they legally can't give away in a contract.
- throwanem 3y ago
  Warranties in the US are not normal contracts. They are heavily regulated by the Federal Trade Commission, including those implicit in offering a product for sale, which cannot be unilaterally terminated post facto by a manufacturer: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspers...
  - DarkmSparks 3y ago
    Normally I would agree. But there are also very heavy regulations around selling telecoms devices with hard requirements for things like interacting with emergency services, regs that do not apply to general electronics. Similar also applies to medical devices. Its the product in its entirety that gets certified as suitable for sale and warrentied against, for example, repeatedly dialing 911 in a fault condition and getting you shot by a swot team.
    - throwanem 3y ago
oneplane 3y ago
Does the warranty in Australia deal with the manufacturer, or is it related to the reseller/point of sale? There are similar laws in the EU in various implementations, but most of them make the party that sold it the one to warrant the product, and the manufacturer isn't really involved (unless the manufacturer is the one that sold it).
- Benjamin_Dobell 3y ago
  Point of sale. Although, if I'm getting into the weeds, I should probably use the terminology "consumer rights and guarantees" rather than warranty, since I believe that's how we make the distinction locally. What's actually really interesting is the same guarantees apply even if the item is a gift[1]. [1] https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees#toc-when-these-consumer-rights-apply https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic...
tzs 3y ago
> In Australia they can revoke the "Motorola warranty" all they want. However, everything sold comes with a warranty that can't be revoked which entitles you to repair, replacement or refund for a reasonable time frame (yes it's intentionally open ended). Can you sell your warranty rights? For example let's say I've sold you something and later I offer you 150 AU$ to buy back your warranty rights. You decide that is worth way more than the warranty is worth to you and accept. Does this work?
- bobtender 3y ago
  > Can you sell your warranty rights? No > Does this work? No What you are referring to is not a warranty, they are statutory rights. [1][2] * Consumer guarantees are automatic and can't be negotiated away. * Warranties are voluntary and are additional to consumer guarantees. Here is the required text in Australia for goods: # Mandatory text for goods and services supplied after 9 June 2019 The mandatory text for the supply of goods and services after 9 June 2019 is: Our goods and services come with guarantees that cannot be excluded under the Australian Consumer Law. For major failures with the service, you are entitled: to cancel your service contract with us; and to a refund for the unused portion, or to compensation for its reduced value. You are also entitled to choose a refund or replacement for major failures with goods. If a failure with the goods or a service does not amount to a major failure, you are entitled to have the failure rectified in a reasonable time. If this is not done you are entitled to a refund for the goods and to cancel the contract for the service and obtain a refund of any unused portion. You are also entitled to be compensated for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage from a failure in the goods or service. [1] https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/warranties https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic... [2] https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2010265/sch2.html https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2...
- verve_rat 3y ago
  No, it is consumer law that you can not contact out of.
donmcronald 3y ago
Canada is the same. In fact, some provinces in Canada require the retailer to honor the warranty if the manufacturer refuses and the warranty was advertised.

IncreasePosts 3y ago

Not generally - they can refuse a warranty service if it seems like the custom modification you made is causing whatever issue you're trying to use the warranty for, but they can't deny it if it unrelated. So if you have a warranty on your car, and you put a custom engine in it, and then it turns out you received defective seatbelts, the warranty is still active. But if your drive train is trashed from the extra power of the new engine, then the warranty will not be honored.

userbinator 3y ago

The US has the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

OkayPhysicist 3y ago

Warranties are just normal contracts. If both parties agree to modify a contract, they are pretty much always allowed to do so. In this case, Motorola is offering a second contract, which modifies an earlier agreement (the warranty) in exchange for the key to unlocking one's phone.

Sakos 3y ago
> Warranties are just normal contracts. If both parties agree to modify a contract, they are pretty much always allowed to do so. In this case, Motorola is offering a second contract, which modifies an earlier agreement (the warranty) in exchange for the key to unlocking one's phone. That's just not true. Most countries have regulations, or concrete laws, around what manufacturers and retailers are required to offer as warranty, as well as when they're allowed to refuse honoring the warranty. It's not just a "contract". The same way you can't just sign away your labor rights in Germany, for example. Doesn't matter if it's a contract. Laws determine what contracts are actually allowed to do.
smt88 3y ago
You can't just put anything in a contract and expect a judge to enforce it. Contracts have limits determined by statutes and common law. People also have rights that they legally can't give away in a contract.
throwanem 3y ago
Warranties in the US are not normal contracts. They are heavily regulated by the Federal Trade Commission, including those implicit in offering a product for sale, which cannot be unilaterally terminated post facto by a manufacturer: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspers...
- DarkmSparks 3y ago
  Normally I would agree. But there are also very heavy regulations around selling telecoms devices with hard requirements for things like interacting with emergency services, regs that do not apply to general electronics. Similar also applies to medical devices. Its the product in its entirety that gets certified as suitable for sale and warrentied against, for example, repeatedly dialing 911 in a fault condition and getting you shot by a swot team.
  - throwanem 3y ago

oneplane 3y ago

Does the warranty in Australia deal with the manufacturer, or is it related to the reseller/point of sale? There are similar laws in the EU in various implementations, but most of them make the party that sold it the one to warrant the product, and the manufacturer isn't really involved (unless the manufacturer is the one that sold it).

Benjamin_Dobell 3y ago
Point of sale. Although, if I'm getting into the weeds, I should probably use the terminology "consumer rights and guarantees" rather than warranty, since I believe that's how we make the distinction locally. What's actually really interesting is the same guarantees apply even if the item is a gift[1]. [1] https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees#toc-when-these-consumer-rights-apply https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic...

tzs 3y ago

> In Australia they can revoke the "Motorola warranty" all they want. However, everything sold comes with a warranty that can't be revoked which entitles you to repair, replacement or refund for a reasonable time frame (yes it's intentionally open ended). Can you sell your warranty rights? For example let's say I've sold you something and later I offer you 150 AU$ to buy back your warranty rights. You decide that is worth way more than the warranty is worth to you and accept. Does this work?

bobtender 3y ago
> Can you sell your warranty rights? No > Does this work? No What you are referring to is not a warranty, they are statutory rights. [1][2] * Consumer guarantees are automatic and can't be negotiated away. * Warranties are voluntary and are additional to consumer guarantees. Here is the required text in Australia for goods: # Mandatory text for goods and services supplied after 9 June 2019 The mandatory text for the supply of goods and services after 9 June 2019 is: Our goods and services come with guarantees that cannot be excluded under the Australian Consumer Law. For major failures with the service, you are entitled: to cancel your service contract with us; and to a refund for the unused portion, or to compensation for its reduced value. You are also entitled to choose a refund or replacement for major failures with goods. If a failure with the goods or a service does not amount to a major failure, you are entitled to have the failure rectified in a reasonable time. If this is not done you are entitled to a refund for the goods and to cancel the contract for the service and obtain a refund of any unused portion. You are also entitled to be compensated for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage from a failure in the goods or service. [1] https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/warranties https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic... [2] https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2010265/sch2.html https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2...
verve_rat 3y ago
No, it is consumer law that you can not contact out of.

donmcronald 3y ago

Canada is the same. In fact, some provinces in Canada require the retailer to honor the warranty if the manufacturer refuses and the warranty was advertised.