6 ms·

I think a key part of why this was confusing to many back in the day was that the big thing at the time was "client-server computing". If you wanted to do emai

I think a key part of why this was confusing to many back in the day was that the big thing at the time was "client-server computing". If you wanted to do email on your home computer, you'd [buy and] install an email client. You wanted to go on AOL? Install the AOL client. Need to use Lotus Notes? Have MIS send a guy over to install the Notes client. Wanted to run X programs? Install an X server. What? Seemed weird! You still hear that terminology some, but nowadays you're much more likely to hear about an email app.

ShamelessC 3y ago
> I think a key part of why this was confusing to many back in the day was that the big thing at the time was "client-server computing". Anecdata, but that's why it's confusing to me even today.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  Yep. Networking was the beginning of the end of anything comprehensible.
  - krallja 3y ago
    I still don’t know the difference between “upstream” and “downstream!” Envoy uses the opposite definitions from what I’m used to. And has a perfectly cromulent explanation for why; I’m convinced. But now I don’t know why I started calling them the opposite.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      > I still don’t know the difference between “upstream” and “downstream!” I just envision being Darkly Noon, sitting at the river bed, watching the giant shoe floating into view from upstream, going downstream. Anything else don't make sense.
      - krallja 3y ago
        Data goes in both directions. Is “upstream” where the requests come from, or where the responses come from?
        magicalhippo 3y ago
        From your example, one could envision an extended edition where, shortly after the shoe goes out of view[1] floating past him, someone shouts "anyone missing a shoe?" That response would then come from downstream from Darkly. My point was that it's a matter of perspective. And it requires a certain well-defined gradient (the river), I don't think "upstream" and "downstream" make much sense when all you have is a lake. [1]: https://youtu.be/eBCDXN6HBS4?t=164 https://youtu.be/eBCDXN6HBS4?t=164
GMoromisato 3y ago
Good point. I also think it's confusing because it's from the point of view of the program instead of the user. I.e., the program is sending draw commands to some server to get rendered. But as a user, the IO devices that I interact with (keyboard, mouse, display) are the client that connect to some backend (whether a web server or a remote program).

ShamelessC 3y ago

> I think a key part of why this was confusing to many back in the day was that the big thing at the time was "client-server computing". Anecdata, but that's why it's confusing to me even today.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago
Yep. Networking was the beginning of the end of anything comprehensible.
- krallja 3y ago
  I still don’t know the difference between “upstream” and “downstream!” Envoy uses the opposite definitions from what I’m used to. And has a perfectly cromulent explanation for why; I’m convinced. But now I don’t know why I started calling them the opposite.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    > I still don’t know the difference between “upstream” and “downstream!” I just envision being Darkly Noon, sitting at the river bed, watching the giant shoe floating into view from upstream, going downstream. Anything else don't make sense.
    - krallja 3y ago
      Data goes in both directions. Is “upstream” where the requests come from, or where the responses come from?
      - magicalhippo 3y ago
        From your example, one could envision an extended edition where, shortly after the shoe goes out of view[1] floating past him, someone shouts "anyone missing a shoe?" That response would then come from downstream from Darkly. My point was that it's a matter of perspective. And it requires a certain well-defined gradient (the river), I don't think "upstream" and "downstream" make much sense when all you have is a lake. [1]: https://youtu.be/eBCDXN6HBS4?t=164 https://youtu.be/eBCDXN6HBS4?t=164

GMoromisato 3y ago

Good point. I also think it's confusing because it's from the point of view of the program instead of the user. I.e., the program is sending draw commands to some server to get rendered. But as a user, the IO devices that I interact with (keyboard, mouse, display) are the client that connect to some backend (whether a web server or a remote program).