9 ms·

How to become a pirate archivist (2022)

277 points by surprisetalk 3y ago

fsflover 3y ago
Why don't they mention a possibility to do torrenting in I2P, which is truly anonymous and safe (although slow)? It seems like a very dangerous thing to do in the clearnet.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  > torrenting in I2P, which is truly anonymous and safe Same was said about TOR There is no such thing as truly anonymous and safe and there never will be
  - fsflover 3y ago
    It's officially not recommended to use Tor for torrents. > There is no such thing as truly anonymous and safe and there never will be Of course, there are no absolutes, but there is a reasonable privacy and safety.
    - wutwutwat 3y ago
      I was talking about TOR being anonymous not just torrents over TOR, just ask the Silk Road guy who had his IP leak afaik
      - fsflover 3y ago
        He didn't have an IP leak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace)
    - wutwutwat 3y ago
      If you’re doing something online, assume it’s public. > If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. - Eric Schmidt - Former Google CEO
      - fsflover 3y ago
        Google wants that to be true. It doesn't mean they're right. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27897975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27897975
vouaobrasil 3y ago
A lot of people will argue about the morality and legality of this sort of thing within the system, but I think this sort of thing is truly the result of rising pressures on society to be as efficient as possible in the domain of capitalistic activities. Of course, as a content creator myself, I do believe that there should be some sort of reward and protection for creating content. However, I also know that we have become a ruthless world where inequality is enormous. And I don't just mean inequality in the traditional sense: even the middle and upper class are forced to live in a world where they are absolutely dependent on the upper tech elite for basic things, and costs are rising. Thus, piracy of this sort is inevitable. It should not just be those who can pay who should have access to knowledge and ideas. Everyone should have that. In a fair world where there were limits to corporate power and technological development, there would be more equality and piracy would not be necessary. So as much as I want to make money myself on my own content, I also support piracy simply because it's the only solution within the capitalistic system for some sort of equality in terms of access to knowledge.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  The thing is that countless of lives have been ruined by bigcorps for doing "piracy". But now the bigcorps see it as a way to gain more money and control over other's lifes, so suddenly doing piracy is totally fine and for the greater good! The worst part is that these individuals whose lives have been ruined weren't even harming anyone. Their operations were on such a small scale that it barely had any impact. But these bigcorps are looking to reshape society, destroy many jobs and industries, rewrite social contracts, and it's all just hunky dory.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    That is right. The near sole determiner of whether an idea flourishes these days is whether it greases the wheels of capitalism. Sometimes, those ideas are in line with our morality and greater good, but most of the time they are not.
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    > But now the bigcorps see it as a way to gain more money and control over other's lifes, so suddenly doing piracy is totally fine and for the greater good! I'm definitely about as anti-corporation as you're going to find on HN, but I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're describing. It seems like bigcorps are definitely still fighting against piracy. At the moment, players like Anna's Archive appear to be winning because they've largely figured out technical means to bypass the legal problems, but I've been in this sphere for long enough to know you never really "win" this war--all you ever can do is carve out a temporary, limited space where knowledge is preserved and liberated. In fact, there are some pretty glaring weaknesses to stuff like Anna's Archive (which I'm not going to share here because I don't want to give anyone ideas) and I expect someone on the wrong side will figure those out in a decade at the most, and services like this will disappear.
carlosjobim 3y ago
What kind of resources would it take to make a search index / crawl the content of the books and papers in Anna's Archive? This would be the most important project for information technology of this decade. They have torrent files of a few hundred gigabytes. Could crawling be done piece by piece on these files?
- criddell 3y ago
  I'm not exactly sure what you have in mind, but even a laptop should be able to index a terabyte in a day or two.
Case_of_Mondays 3y ago
I often think about what digital information from the current time humans will still be able to access in 1000 years. Everyone's talking about IP law but I think future historians will be thankful for projects like this that aim to democratize knowledge and preserve it for the future
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  More relevant than ever ? https://technologizer.com/2012/01/23/why-history-needs-software-piracy/ https://technologizer.com/2012/01/23/why-history-needs-softw...
matheusmoreira 3y ago
In case anyone's wondering what this relates to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna%27s_Archive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna%27s_Archive > Anna's Archive is a search engine for shadow libraries. > It describes itself as a project that aims to "catalog all the books in existence" May they succeed at their noble goal.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- prirai 3y ago
  While they did start as search engine, it seems the goal changed midway.
mistyq 3y ago
Doing something highly illegal and finding a "community" and sharing it with a "friend" would be a stupid move. Don't ever disclose your name if you do something like this, unless you are in a safe country.
- 3abiton 3y ago
  Define a safe country. I highly doubt there are any, after what happened to Aaron Swartz.
  - sourcecodeplz 3y ago
    Asia, Middle East….
  - alwayslikethis 3y ago
    Russia is currently the preeminent power that lies beyond the reach of US law while still having functional internet infrastructure. If you stay reasonably low-profile and stay out of the way of domestic interests, you should be safe.
- austin-cheney 3y ago
  I have my own written SOPs for how I make personal back ups of commercial media I own (purchased licensed instance because you never really own it even after paying for access). In this case I enjoy maintaining a media archive but my choice of words provides a fully legal context. What I find interesting is the wildly differing approach to piracy between the RIAA and the MPAA. The music industry’s current approach is to make their product as available everywhere as much as possible so that it requires far greater effort to pirate the media than to otherwise consume it. As a result piracy is rarer than it used to be and they are making more money than they used to. The movie industry still acts the way the music industry did in the 90s.
  - madduci 3y ago
    > As a result piracy is rarer than it used to be and they are making more money than they used to. The movie industry still acts the way the music industry did in the 90s. Exactly this. And not only they do more money with digital content, see how concerts are always full and prices skyrocketed due to the demand! The movie industry has surely more costs that music one, _but_ they act like children who lost their toys. And the book industry isn't that far away too.. a lot of content is behind stupid DRMs and what happens if the license server disappears one day?
crtasm 3y ago
While I know they need to fund servers somehow, the approach and wording of their download page doesn't sit right with me: >Fast downloads - Become a member to support the long-term preservation of books, papers, and more. To show our gratitude for your support, you get fast downloads. >[3 "Fast Partner Server" links] >Refer a friend, and both you and your friend get 50% bonus fast downloads! >[3 "Slow Partner Server" links] $5/m gets 20 fast downloads a day. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on this. edit: I should have said that the donations page is important context too: https://annas-archive.org/donate https://annas-archive.org/donate
- DymistAlarm 3y ago
  The free external providers work for a user who requires a small number of downloads. I don't see an issue with charging users who would cause large amounts of traffic. It is a subscription model described as donations but this is common for many piracy sites.
- vintagedave 3y ago
  Why doesn't it sit right? Providing a higher level of service reward for those who support provides an incentive, yet those who do not support are no worse off than they already were. What surprises me is the need for fast downloads. Books are small. 20 fast small downloads doesn't seem much of a reward.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    There's an enormous difference between spreading stolen information for free or selling stolen information for profit. If you don't understand this, you have to investigate your moral compass a bit. There's a reason why purchasing stolen goods is a crime in most of the world.
    - BlueTemplar 3y ago
      Yeah, while governments indeed do not care too much about "piracy", this raises the threat that they will do something to stop it, and the punishment will be harsher. See also : the recent shutdown by Nintendo of a Switch emulator, where they exploited the fact that it got crowdfunded (with specific rewards for bigger backers ?).
ergonaught 3y ago
[flagged]
- CaptainFever 3y ago
  As always: https://youtu.be/IeTybKL1pM4 https://youtu.be/IeTybKL1pM4
  - squigz 3y ago
    Oh gosh it's been years. Thanks for reminding me about this!
dang 3y ago
Discussed at the time: How to become a pirate archivist - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33240701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33240701 - Oct 2022 (99 comments)

277 points by surprisetalk 3y ago

Why don't they mention a possibility to do torrenting in I2P, which is truly anonymous and safe (although slow)? It seems like a very dangerous thing to do in the clearnet.

wutwutwat 3y ago
> torrenting in I2P, which is truly anonymous and safe Same was said about TOR There is no such thing as truly anonymous and safe and there never will be
- fsflover 3y ago
  It's officially not recommended to use Tor for torrents. > There is no such thing as truly anonymous and safe and there never will be Of course, there are no absolutes, but there is a reasonable privacy and safety.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    I was talking about TOR being anonymous not just torrents over TOR, just ask the Silk Road guy who had his IP leak afaik
    - fsflover 3y ago
      He didn't have an IP leak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace)
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    If you’re doing something online, assume it’s public. > If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. - Eric Schmidt - Former Google CEO
    - fsflover 3y ago
      Google wants that to be true. It doesn't mean they're right. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27897975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27897975

vouaobrasil 3y ago

A lot of people will argue about the morality and legality of this sort of thing within the system, but I think this sort of thing is truly the result of rising pressures on society to be as efficient as possible in the domain of capitalistic activities. Of course, as a content creator myself, I do believe that there should be some sort of reward and protection for creating content. However, I also know that we have become a ruthless world where inequality is enormous. And I don't just mean inequality in the traditional sense: even the middle and upper class are forced to live in a world where they are absolutely dependent on the upper tech elite for basic things, and costs are rising. Thus, piracy of this sort is inevitable. It should not just be those who can pay who should have access to knowledge and ideas. Everyone should have that. In a fair world where there were limits to corporate power and technological development, there would be more equality and piracy would not be necessary. So as much as I want to make money myself on my own content, I also support piracy simply because it's the only solution within the capitalistic system for some sort of equality in terms of access to knowledge.

beeboobaa 3y ago
The thing is that countless of lives have been ruined by bigcorps for doing "piracy". But now the bigcorps see it as a way to gain more money and control over other's lifes, so suddenly doing piracy is totally fine and for the greater good! The worst part is that these individuals whose lives have been ruined weren't even harming anyone. Their operations were on such a small scale that it barely had any impact. But these bigcorps are looking to reshape society, destroy many jobs and industries, rewrite social contracts, and it's all just hunky dory.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  That is right. The near sole determiner of whether an idea flourishes these days is whether it greases the wheels of capitalism. Sometimes, those ideas are in line with our morality and greater good, but most of the time they are not.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  > But now the bigcorps see it as a way to gain more money and control over other's lifes, so suddenly doing piracy is totally fine and for the greater good! I'm definitely about as anti-corporation as you're going to find on HN, but I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're describing. It seems like bigcorps are definitely still fighting against piracy. At the moment, players like Anna's Archive appear to be winning because they've largely figured out technical means to bypass the legal problems, but I've been in this sphere for long enough to know you never really "win" this war--all you ever can do is carve out a temporary, limited space where knowledge is preserved and liberated. In fact, there are some pretty glaring weaknesses to stuff like Anna's Archive (which I'm not going to share here because I don't want to give anyone ideas) and I expect someone on the wrong side will figure those out in a decade at the most, and services like this will disappear.

carlosjobim 3y ago

What kind of resources would it take to make a search index / crawl the content of the books and papers in Anna's Archive? This would be the most important project for information technology of this decade. They have torrent files of a few hundred gigabytes. Could crawling be done piece by piece on these files?

criddell 3y ago
I'm not exactly sure what you have in mind, but even a laptop should be able to index a terabyte in a day or two.

Case_of_Mondays 3y ago

I often think about what digital information from the current time humans will still be able to access in 1000 years. Everyone's talking about IP law but I think future historians will be thankful for projects like this that aim to democratize knowledge and preserve it for the future

BlueTemplar 3y ago
More relevant than ever ? https://technologizer.com/2012/01/23/why-history-needs-software-piracy/ https://technologizer.com/2012/01/23/why-history-needs-softw...

matheusmoreira 3y ago

In case anyone's wondering what this relates to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna%27s_Archive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna%27s_Archive > Anna's Archive is a search engine for shadow libraries. > It describes itself as a project that aims to "catalog all the books in existence" May they succeed at their noble goal.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
prirai 3y ago
While they did start as search engine, it seems the goal changed midway.

mistyq 3y ago

Doing something highly illegal and finding a "community" and sharing it with a "friend" would be a stupid move. Don't ever disclose your name if you do something like this, unless you are in a safe country.

3abiton 3y ago
Define a safe country. I highly doubt there are any, after what happened to Aaron Swartz.
- sourcecodeplz 3y ago
  Asia, Middle East….
- alwayslikethis 3y ago
  Russia is currently the preeminent power that lies beyond the reach of US law while still having functional internet infrastructure. If you stay reasonably low-profile and stay out of the way of domestic interests, you should be safe.
austin-cheney 3y ago
I have my own written SOPs for how I make personal back ups of commercial media I own (purchased licensed instance because you never really own it even after paying for access). In this case I enjoy maintaining a media archive but my choice of words provides a fully legal context. What I find interesting is the wildly differing approach to piracy between the RIAA and the MPAA. The music industry’s current approach is to make their product as available everywhere as much as possible so that it requires far greater effort to pirate the media than to otherwise consume it. As a result piracy is rarer than it used to be and they are making more money than they used to. The movie industry still acts the way the music industry did in the 90s.
- madduci 3y ago
  > As a result piracy is rarer than it used to be and they are making more money than they used to. The movie industry still acts the way the music industry did in the 90s. Exactly this. And not only they do more money with digital content, see how concerts are always full and prices skyrocketed due to the demand! The movie industry has surely more costs that music one, _but_ they act like children who lost their toys. And the book industry isn't that far away too.. a lot of content is behind stupid DRMs and what happens if the license server disappears one day?

crtasm 3y ago

While I know they need to fund servers somehow, the approach and wording of their download page doesn't sit right with me: >Fast downloads - Become a member to support the long-term preservation of books, papers, and more. To show our gratitude for your support, you get fast downloads. >[3 "Fast Partner Server" links] >Refer a friend, and both you and your friend get 50% bonus fast downloads! >[3 "Slow Partner Server" links] $5/m gets 20 fast downloads a day. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on this. edit: I should have said that the donations page is important context too: https://annas-archive.org/donate https://annas-archive.org/donate

DymistAlarm 3y ago
The free external providers work for a user who requires a small number of downloads. I don't see an issue with charging users who would cause large amounts of traffic. It is a subscription model described as donations but this is common for many piracy sites.
vintagedave 3y ago
Why doesn't it sit right? Providing a higher level of service reward for those who support provides an incentive, yet those who do not support are no worse off than they already were. What surprises me is the need for fast downloads. Books are small. 20 fast small downloads doesn't seem much of a reward.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  There's an enormous difference between spreading stolen information for free or selling stolen information for profit. If you don't understand this, you have to investigate your moral compass a bit. There's a reason why purchasing stolen goods is a crime in most of the world.
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    Yeah, while governments indeed do not care too much about "piracy", this raises the threat that they will do something to stop it, and the punishment will be harsher. See also : the recent shutdown by Nintendo of a Switch emulator, where they exploited the fact that it got crowdfunded (with specific rewards for bigger backers ?).

ergonaught 3y ago

[flagged]

CaptainFever 3y ago
As always: https://youtu.be/IeTybKL1pM4 https://youtu.be/IeTybKL1pM4
- squigz 3y ago
  Oh gosh it's been years. Thanks for reminding me about this!

dang 3y ago

Discussed at the time: How to become a pirate archivist - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33240701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33240701 - Oct 2022 (99 comments)