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Agreed; this will further devalue these standardized tests when the results cannot be fully trusted and stop correlating with academic success.

throw1234651234 3y ago
I don't know why the above got downvoted - it's absolutely true. There is a reason I have to go into a testing center or sit there with my camera on with a proctor watching when taking cloud exams. I don't see how hard it can be to keep organizing SATs once a year - plus it really does generate a shared identity, which is something we are all sorely lacking. It was a big event to go to a different school to take the SAT.
- r00fus 3y ago
  You will still go in, but it will be on a computer there.
tehjoker 3y ago
all true, but at least there will be one fewer setting students are forcibly exposed to COVID-19 in
- pc86 3y ago
  It's 2024, the pandemic has been over for a number of years now.
  - ribosometronome 3y ago
    Because the disease became endemic, yes.
  - UncleSlacky 3y ago
    The "emergency phase" was declared over, however we're still in a pandemic. Most people want to pretend it's over, but nobody has told the virus.
    - pc86 3y ago
      COVID is endemic. Endemic and pandemic are mutually exclusive things.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        Physically, one is a subset of the other. It's only "mutually exclusive" from a specific (misleading) angle.
        pc86 3y ago
        What angle? I'm talking about the definitions of the words. Pandemic: occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population; characterized by very widespread growth or extent Endemic: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment; a disease or outbreak of disease that is typically present in a particular region or population : an endemic disease COVID doesn't even really qualify as endemic based on the dictionary definition, but it's certainly not a pandemic.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        Wide geographic area, yes. Significant proportion of the population, yes. Very widespread growth or extent, yes (specifically the extent option). How does it not fit the dictionary definition of pandemic?
        pc86 3y ago
        https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home 17,310 admissions, down 10.3% week over week 2.1% of deaths, down 8.7% WOW 1.5% of ED visits, down 14.6% WOW 7.4% of tests are positive, down 0.9% WOW None of those numbers indicate growth. None of those numbers indicate a significant proportion of the population. I'll give you geography, but that's also characteristic of an endemic illness - distributed across a large geographic region among a small percentage of the population with relatively little impact.
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  "Forcibly exposed"? Do you feel that way about anything that gathers people, especially young people, together?
- iraqmtpizza 3y ago
  You were forcibly exposed to things other than your favorite brand of organic soda too
- orochimaaru 3y ago
  I have news for you. That ship has sailed and all kids have had multiple infections of the virus.
dandesim 3y ago
This are big statements to be making with no rationale. These will still be proctored exams in person, so there is no reason to believe that cheating will increase. Additionally, there is low indicators from the start that standardized tests correlate with academic success, hence the number of higher ed institutions no longer requiring them. People who want to cheat will always find a way to cheat. All you need to do now is go to the bathroom and lookup answers on your phone.
- justrealist 3y ago
  Actually many higher ed institutions are re-instituting them this year: https://rhodeislandcurrent.com/2024/03/05/brown-shifts-back-to-requiring-standardized-tests/ https://rhodeislandcurrent.com/2024/03/05/brown-shifts-back-...
- ghaff 3y ago
  Standardized tests actually correlate better with academic success than a number of other measures. Some Ivies have recently been reinstituting standardized testing requirements.
  - dandesim 3y ago
    That’s just straight false, or at least I have never seen any evidence showing a strong correlation. What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      ANd yet there's widespread reinstitution of standardized test requirements, see e.g. https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy
    - knightoffaith 3y ago
      >What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have. How does this contradict the GP? This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with standardized tests correlating better with academic success on its face. Because I would expect that such people tend to have not just worse standardized test scores but also worse academic success (because of the advantages that wealthy people have that these people lack).
r00fus 3y ago
"Students will still take the exam at a test center or at a high school." You're not going to be able to take this with an iPad on your couch (or with a friend/parent nearby). Likely just as draconian as today, except no pencils required.
gnicholas 3y ago
How will this devalue the test? The only way in which the test is easier is that it's shorter, so students who lose steam toward the end will perform somewhat better. But this shorter test is dynamic, so it will still be able to assess students fairly, at all levels. In truth, it could even open the door to allowing for a higher ceiling, by offering even harder questions to students who score super well on earlier portions. That could make the test (and a coveted 1600+ score) even more trusted as a marker of academic ability/readiness.
- goryramsy 3y ago
  Would not 'losing steam' on a long test be indicative of motivation and also be part of the test? Remember, the test is a lot more than the questions; the test is also about pacing and focus.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    There is something to be said for endurance, and I admit that the new test will not test endurance as much. But I think most people don't think of the primary role of the SAT as an endurance test. When I was in HS, we had IB tests that were much longer, and were seen as grueling tests of endurance. And after law school, I took the CA bar exam, which was at the time the only 3-day bar exam. It was (in)famous for endurance. But do people think the SAT is measuring endurance? I don't, but perhaps others do. One thing that won't change is any effect on pacing. The SAT previously had sections, and it will continue to have sections. You still have to pace yourself through each section. But there was never a way to pace yourself across sections, through the entire test. You had to wait until one section was done before starting the next.

throw1234651234 3y ago

I don't know why the above got downvoted - it's absolutely true. There is a reason I have to go into a testing center or sit there with my camera on with a proctor watching when taking cloud exams. I don't see how hard it can be to keep organizing SATs once a year - plus it really does generate a shared identity, which is something we are all sorely lacking. It was a big event to go to a different school to take the SAT.

r00fus 3y ago
You will still go in, but it will be on a computer there.

tehjoker 3y ago

all true, but at least there will be one fewer setting students are forcibly exposed to COVID-19 in

pc86 3y ago
It's 2024, the pandemic has been over for a number of years now.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  Because the disease became endemic, yes.
- UncleSlacky 3y ago
  The "emergency phase" was declared over, however we're still in a pandemic. Most people want to pretend it's over, but nobody has told the virus.
  - pc86 3y ago
    COVID is endemic. Endemic and pandemic are mutually exclusive things.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Physically, one is a subset of the other. It's only "mutually exclusive" from a specific (misleading) angle.
      - pc86 3y ago
        What angle? I'm talking about the definitions of the words. Pandemic: occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population; characterized by very widespread growth or extent Endemic: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment; a disease or outbreak of disease that is typically present in a particular region or population : an endemic disease COVID doesn't even really qualify as endemic based on the dictionary definition, but it's certainly not a pandemic.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        Wide geographic area, yes. Significant proportion of the population, yes. Very widespread growth or extent, yes (specifically the extent option). How does it not fit the dictionary definition of pandemic?
        pc86 3y ago
        https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home 17,310 admissions, down 10.3% week over week 2.1% of deaths, down 8.7% WOW 1.5% of ED visits, down 14.6% WOW 7.4% of tests are positive, down 0.9% WOW None of those numbers indicate growth. None of those numbers indicate a significant proportion of the population. I'll give you geography, but that's also characteristic of an endemic illness - distributed across a large geographic region among a small percentage of the population with relatively little impact.
DiggyJohnson 3y ago
"Forcibly exposed"? Do you feel that way about anything that gathers people, especially young people, together?
iraqmtpizza 3y ago
You were forcibly exposed to things other than your favorite brand of organic soda too
orochimaaru 3y ago
I have news for you. That ship has sailed and all kids have had multiple infections of the virus.

dandesim 3y ago

This are big statements to be making with no rationale. These will still be proctored exams in person, so there is no reason to believe that cheating will increase. Additionally, there is low indicators from the start that standardized tests correlate with academic success, hence the number of higher ed institutions no longer requiring them. People who want to cheat will always find a way to cheat. All you need to do now is go to the bathroom and lookup answers on your phone.

justrealist 3y ago
Actually many higher ed institutions are re-instituting them this year: https://rhodeislandcurrent.com/2024/03/05/brown-shifts-back-to-requiring-standardized-tests/ https://rhodeislandcurrent.com/2024/03/05/brown-shifts-back-...
ghaff 3y ago
Standardized tests actually correlate better with academic success than a number of other measures. Some Ivies have recently been reinstituting standardized testing requirements.
- dandesim 3y ago
  That’s just straight false, or at least I have never seen any evidence showing a strong correlation. What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    ANd yet there's widespread reinstitution of standardized test requirements, see e.g. https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/apply/update-testing-policy
  - knightoffaith 3y ago
    >What has been shown is the negative advantage minorities, impoverished, ESL, disabled people have when taking the test and the advantages that wealthy people who can pay for tutors have. How does this contradict the GP? This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with standardized tests correlating better with academic success on its face. Because I would expect that such people tend to have not just worse standardized test scores but also worse academic success (because of the advantages that wealthy people have that these people lack).

r00fus 3y ago

"Students will still take the exam at a test center or at a high school." You're not going to be able to take this with an iPad on your couch (or with a friend/parent nearby). Likely just as draconian as today, except no pencils required.

gnicholas 3y ago

How will this devalue the test? The only way in which the test is easier is that it's shorter, so students who lose steam toward the end will perform somewhat better. But this shorter test is dynamic, so it will still be able to assess students fairly, at all levels. In truth, it could even open the door to allowing for a higher ceiling, by offering even harder questions to students who score super well on earlier portions. That could make the test (and a coveted 1600+ score) even more trusted as a marker of academic ability/readiness.

goryramsy 3y ago
Would not 'losing steam' on a long test be indicative of motivation and also be part of the test? Remember, the test is a lot more than the questions; the test is also about pacing and focus.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  There is something to be said for endurance, and I admit that the new test will not test endurance as much. But I think most people don't think of the primary role of the SAT as an endurance test. When I was in HS, we had IB tests that were much longer, and were seen as grueling tests of endurance. And after law school, I took the CA bar exam, which was at the time the only 3-day bar exam. It was (in)famous for endurance. But do people think the SAT is measuring endurance? I don't, but perhaps others do. One thing that won't change is any effect on pacing. The SAT previously had sections, and it will continue to have sections. You still have to pace yourself through each section. But there was never a way to pace yourself across sections, through the entire test. You had to wait until one section was done before starting the next.