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More important, in my opinion, is autopay should generally be opt-out rather than opt-in. That is to say, you should provide your funding source when opening th

More important, in my opinion, is autopay should generally be opt-out rather than opt-in. That is to say, you should provide your funding source when opening the account and some manual action should be needed on your part to decide to pay less then the balance automatically. It would be reasonable to allow you to choose between the minimum and full balance, but I've experienced some dark patterns making it difficult to setup autopay, and autopay setting "mysteriously" resetting by themselves. Banks should have zero incentive to make being responsible more difficult than it already is for most people.

tacostakohashi 3y ago
> Banks should have zero incentive to make being responsible more difficult than it already is for most people. Presumably interest should be banned as well?
- mlyle 3y ago
  I read your comment as trying to troll/lampoon him. There's times where banks seem to deliberately screw your payments, etc, up. There's no sane legal regime where they should make paying your balance artificially difficult. Of course they should be able to charge a reasonable amount of interest for the use of credit.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  I’d note that compounding interest is already a “late fee.” The longer you hold the debt the larger it becomes, exponentially. In a meaningful way late fees are double dipping.
- vanchor3 3y ago
  There's a difference between "paying interest because you didn't pay off your entire balance" and "paying a $40 late fee because you forgot the payment was due at 10:59AM Eastern Time and you were an hour late".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> autopay should generally be opt-out rather than opt-in I’d much rather be late on a payment than unexpectedly drain my cash.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  It's not unexpected because you're checking your statement summaries when they arrive and being notified of transactions as they happen. Right? Because not having those things set up by default is how people spiral in predatory fees.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    People are human and life is hard (especially in the US, unnecessarily so). Good policy understands this, and protects the human while not overly encumbering business. This regulation is entirely reasonable based on the data [1] with regards to costs incurred. This is the same reason 401ks will be gone soon [2]; we told a lie that pensions were untenable, foisted the responsibility on humans (who laughably were expected to be able to be sophisticated with regards to these matters, contrary to the evidence [3]), and now we have an entire cohort moving through 55+ to death who have little to no retirement savings to speak of [4]. Because policy failed them, and all those previous pension contributions went to shareholders instead. We don't have to argue this here, but it is to demonstrate systemic failures. But see, we can make better policy. It is easy, and it scales (versus unrealistic expectations of the human). We outlaw the predatory behavior. [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/data-research/research-reports/credit-card-late-fees/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/data-research/research-repor... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-20/retirement-if-you-couldn-t-have-a-401-k-how-would-you-save https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-20/retire... | https://archive.today/jdfPv https://archive.today/jdfPv [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/19/heres-how-much-people-say-lack-of-financial-literacy-cost-in-2022.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/19/heres-how-much-people-say-la... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39578810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39578810 (citations)
    - smeej 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

tacostakohashi 3y ago

> Banks should have zero incentive to make being responsible more difficult than it already is for most people. Presumably interest should be banned as well?

mlyle 3y ago
I read your comment as trying to troll/lampoon him. There's times where banks seem to deliberately screw your payments, etc, up. There's no sane legal regime where they should make paying your balance artificially difficult. Of course they should be able to charge a reasonable amount of interest for the use of credit.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
I’d note that compounding interest is already a “late fee.” The longer you hold the debt the larger it becomes, exponentially. In a meaningful way late fees are double dipping.
vanchor3 3y ago
There's a difference between "paying interest because you didn't pay off your entire balance" and "paying a $40 late fee because you forgot the payment was due at 10:59AM Eastern Time and you were an hour late".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> autopay should generally be opt-out rather than opt-in I’d much rather be late on a payment than unexpectedly drain my cash.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
It's not unexpected because you're checking your statement summaries when they arrive and being notified of transactions as they happen. Right? Because not having those things set up by default is how people spiral in predatory fees.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  People are human and life is hard (especially in the US, unnecessarily so). Good policy understands this, and protects the human while not overly encumbering business. This regulation is entirely reasonable based on the data [1] with regards to costs incurred. This is the same reason 401ks will be gone soon [2]; we told a lie that pensions were untenable, foisted the responsibility on humans (who laughably were expected to be able to be sophisticated with regards to these matters, contrary to the evidence [3]), and now we have an entire cohort moving through 55+ to death who have little to no retirement savings to speak of [4]. Because policy failed them, and all those previous pension contributions went to shareholders instead. We don't have to argue this here, but it is to demonstrate systemic failures. But see, we can make better policy. It is easy, and it scales (versus unrealistic expectations of the human). We outlaw the predatory behavior. [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/data-research/research-reports/credit-card-late-fees/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/data-research/research-repor... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-20/retirement-if-you-couldn-t-have-a-401-k-how-would-you-save https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-20/retire... | https://archive.today/jdfPv https://archive.today/jdfPv [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/19/heres-how-much-people-say-lack-of-financial-literacy-cost-in-2022.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/19/heres-how-much-people-say-la... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39578810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39578810 (citations)
  - smeej 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]