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Show HN: Want to learn design? Try Design Lab.
- hv23 14y agoHey HN, we've noticed that people are starting to understand how valuable design is these days - in order to make great products, design is arguably as important as engineering. Like HN-er @shl says, "everyone in a company needs to learn design literacy" (http://www.fastcodesign.com/1669189/pinterests-founding-designer-shares-his-dead-simple-design-philosophy http://www.fastcodesign.com/1669189/pinterests-founding-desi...). The problem is, we haven't yet found a straightforward way to learn how to become a better designer. We built a simple product to address this, based on one core principle: the best way to learn design is by doing projects that force you to master the concepts, while allowing you to practice your creativity. We'll start sending out the first project emails in a couple weeks, so sign up and save a spot! We'd love any and all feedback about this. Thanks!
- jstanley 14y agoAny idea if the sign up is broken?
- phallstrom 14y agoIt is. Open up a web inspector and it's returning 500 server error.
- hv23 14y agoHey guys-- this is terrible, we were not expecting this much traffic. Signups are indeed working, we're pushing a quick fix to address the issue. (if you already signed up, you don't have to enter your email again)
- huma 14y agoCan you reveal the traffic figures and your server spec?
- jerrya 14y agoUh, clicking "Sign Up" appears to do nothing on Chrome, Firefox, Safari and Opera. Worse: it looks terrible in IE (where finally, it yields a 500)
- dhyasama 14y agoAs others have stated, the signup form doesn't work. I see a 500 response. Looks like there isn't an action set on the form. Hope that helps.
- sopooneo 14y agoAnd this is where engineering is important.
- pazimzadeh 14y agoIn my experience, of the best ways to get started in design is to replicate other people's designs as perfectly as you can, just to get the hang of designing something good. For example, the other day I recreated the hat icon here: http://hicksdesign.co.uk http://hicksdesign.co.uk. This is mine: http://cl.ly/GYHw http://cl.ly/GYHw. If you make one thing every day, you'll eventually be pretty good at fleshing out your own ideas. Resources: http://pttrns.com http://pttrns.com; http://teehanlax.com/blog/iphone-4-gui-psd-retina-display http://teehanlax.com/blog/iphone-4-gui-psd-retina-display; http://dribbble.com http://dribbble.com
- odddogmedia 14y agoI actually enjoy your version of the hat icon better! Great job. This is good advice. People learning to become designers get hung up in the creativity portion, then falter with creating anything at all.
- MaxGabriel 14y agoHey that sounds like a great idea. Could that also be a good way to practice iOS or android development?
- pazimzadeh 14y agoIf only apps released their source code more often..but you could look at open source apps: http://maniacdev.com/2010/06/35-open-source-iphone-app-store-apps-updated-with-10-new-apps http://maniacdev.com/2010/06/35-open-source-iphone-app-store....
- oscardelben 14y agoYes, absolutely, even if you can't see how they did you'll get experience solving the problems they had to solve.
- dorian-graph 14y ago> In my experience, of the best ways to get started in design is to replicate other people's designs as perfectly as you can, just to get the hang of designing something good. In the movie Finding Forrester and aspiring writer is unsure of what to write and has been sitting in front of a typewriter for what seems a few hours.. An experienced one gives him one of his works and tells him to type it. He says sometimes the simple rhythm of typing can get us from page 1 to page 2. Emulation is wonderful.
- tnorthcutt 14y agoNothing happens when I click the Sign Up button. Chrome Beta, Win7.
- floppydisk 14y agoTried signing up through your Sign Up text box on the website, but when I click the "Sign Up" button to submit my email, nothing happens.
- briandw 14y agoSame here. Good design lives or dies on the details. Not a good sign.
- prezjordan 14y agoSame. Just got a confirmation email though!
- gjulianm 14y agoIt also happened to me, but after reloading and clicking some times more the button it worked.
- AVTizzle 14y agoHey guys - cool idea. I tried entering my email, and there's no success indicator. Click the button, and nothing. Not sure if I just signed up 10 times, or failed to sign up at all :/
- citricsquid 14y agoRequest URL: http://www.trydesignlab.com/ http://www.trydesignlab.com/ Request Method: POST Status Code: 500 Internal Server Error It's broken
- MoOmer 14y agoVery cool, but this portion is hard to read - and made me an immediate skeptic of the authority behind the product: http://i.imgur.com/1kddf.png http://i.imgur.com/1kddf.png
- danthewireman 14y agoMy Chrome JS console gives me a 500 error when I try to sign up.
- CChristie 14y agoSite's down.
- jsh4ft 14y ago500.
- fumar 14y agoI like the site. I decided to sign up. There was problem. After, I hit the sign up button, nothing occurs. I have not received a confirmation email. Am I missing something?
- TYPE_FASTER 14y agoI bet there are designers who read HN who would like to teach developers design in exchange for development tutorials. Is there a HN Academy? Perhaps we should start one.
- helipad 14y agoI like the idea of setting challenges, it's certainly more useful to me than the tutorial route.
- simonsarris 14y agoNot to be mean but the site's fonts look absolutely horrible on Chrome 20 in Windows 7. The top ones look messy and thick and the bottom one looks much too thin: http://i.imgur.com/KUVwh.png http://i.imgur.com/KUVwh.png
- tkazec 14y agoPresumably Windows' fault, since it has awful font rendering systemwide. Looks fine in Chrome 20 on Lion.
- there 14y agoLooks ugly in Firefox on OS X, but maybe it's just a bad choice of font. http://i.imgur.com/ze1iQ.png http://i.imgur.com/ze1iQ.png
- davidjohnstone 14y agoWindows has a couple of different font rendering systems. Chrome uses GDI, IE9 uses DirectWrite, and Firefox can use either. DirectWrite is a lot smoother, and that's most of the reason why I prefer Firefox in Windows. The fonts on this site look worst in Win/FF. They're not great in Win/Chrome, but at least they look well matched. It looks good in OSX/Chrome. Probably because that's what it was developed in. Protip: different browsers render fonts differently. Test your site before you release it into the wild.
- kcbanner 14y agoYep, looks like crap for me too. Windows, Chrome 20.
- muraiki 14y agoThe fonts are horrible in Firefox 12 on Windows XP, too.
- muraiki 14y agoI don't know much about CSS, but I think what happened is that their source for the fonts have taken the files down. For instance, one of the referenced fonts is http://dshap.com/fonts/Gotham-Book.otf http://dshap.com/fonts/Gotham-Book.otf which now yields a 404.
- leftnode 14y agoThis sites design is....not good. The font is hard to read at that size, the icons are blurry, the quotes at the bottom look like endorsements on first view. Needs some more time in the oven I think.
- prezjordan 14y agoLooks great on my mac! Maybe they use a font-face that they should've tested cross-platform?
- brandoncordell 14y agoAgreed, well the icons still aren't great on my Mac, but the font looks fine to me. Then again, I'm also a developer so I don't know everything about good design.
- medell 14y agoAgreed, in FF the Gotham font-faces are blurry but fine in Chrome. Icons are not sharp either. Hit the "View the full curriculum" and the background dot pattern is not the best choice.
- michaelpinto 14y agoIf you're going to design an online course to teach design, you actually have to know something about teaching design. The foundation of a solid design education is actually the fine arts -- that's why since the days of the Bauhaus first year students study fine arts in a foundation year, and then spend the next few years studying applied design. The reason? Because before you can play with layout and typography you need to know about color theory and yes even subjects like art history. Learning the techniques of design without the basics is like trying to be a writer by learning all the functions of MS Word but not having read Shakespeare. PS It's also slightly dishonest to put to put a photo of Steve Jobs down there which indirectly implies that he would approve.
- ckluis 14y agoI agree the people appear to be social proof even though they are no more than quotes from famous people. Not really false advertising, but false implications.
- aik 14y agoThe quotes are headed by the question "Why learn design?" This site doesn't have a monopoly on design, so I had no inclination to think they were endorsing the site.
- shioyama 14y ago> Learning the techniques of design without the basics is like trying to be a writer by learning all the functions of MS Word but not having read Shakespeare. You can be a perfectly good writer without having read a word of Shakespeare.
- jellicle 14y agoAs others have pointed out, the signup is broken/down. But also: how much does it cost? "Get started for free." is interpreted by my cynical self to include the closing phrase "and as soon as you're interested, it's going to cost a lot to continue." No contact information, no price information... what is this except an email harvesting exercise?
- thwest 14y agoView full curriculum isn't working either.
- hv23 14y agoIt's free with no plans to charge for anything, don't worry! "Get started for free" is simply a call-to-action to make that apparent. Cynicism warranted... that should've been more clearly explained. email us at hello@trydesignlab with any questions or issues!
- jentulman 14y agoI thought the same. I'd only been on the page about 30 seconds and I came back here to see if anyone had mentioned pricing. Perhaps 'Get started, it's free' would be better suited.
- matt312 14y agoUh oh...I got a "Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently" when I emailed you.
- pedalpete 14y ago"Get all 30 projects free! Sign-up Now! Something like that the other recommendations still lead me to believe that it would cost something later.
- heyitsnick 14y agoThen I would say definitely go with "completely free" or similar. I too didn't leave my email because "get started for free" suggests to me "the first one is free, but once you're hooked we'll hit you with opaque pricing!" (and i'm glad i read this thread so i can sign up!)
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- zdgman 14y agoGreat idea but wish sign up wasn't busted (as everyone points out). I am interested to actually see what the curriculum looks like when you get in. I think you can cover a lot of design principals effectively without studying art history. I am sure you will find a great many designers just fell into their current field with no formal training. I don't know if it's so much about having the formal training and instead would be having an eye and then developing that eye. Design is really whatever you want it to be.
- danso 14y agoI want to describe this as the "Codecademy for Design" but Codecademy lets you complete lessons before pushing you to sign up. I would've never signed up otherwise -- because I already know how to code but the interface/approach appealed to me. I know it would require a slight infrastructure change on your part to implement this but might pull in more users in the end.
- pknerd 14y agoGetting 500 error.
- mnicole 14y agoNot to be an ass, but the first thing I questioned when I came to the site was "If this is the best design they could come up with, what does that mean for the education?" Sign up and design failure aside, I question what this site will do. Design a logo in 30 minutes? Design a one-page flyer with a minimum of 5 typefaces? Those aren't exercises, those are bad practices. There's an overabundance of people who call themselves designers and not enough people who truly understand it and care about it at a depth that creates good products, not broken experiences. There's already an influx of graduates with degrees that show nothing except that they put the time in. There's an abundance of sites (ahem Awwwards, Smashing Magazine, Dribbble) that do their part to promote bad design as good design. And not to speak ill of any good designers who work for Google, but as a company they're not exactly known for it - quite the opposite. I would prefer qualified guest designers or actual professors as opposed to 'vetted' corporate employees to judge my work. I don't think people need Design 101 anymore. I think we need a place for seasoned designers and people who are making the switch from print to web or design to front-end coding to fully understand what they're getting into.
- ebiester 14y agoAh, but as a developer, if we cannot speak the language, how do we communicate effectively? Let's say that I'm design an app - I'm looking through portfolios for a contractor to do some design work. If I have that vocabulary, I can more effectively judge what is good from what isn't good, and I can quantify things past, "this looks a bit weird." I got to work with a good UX/UI crew at exactly one of my jobs, but it completely changed how I thought about thinking about design. That, combined with some reading, was my "design 101" education. I would argue that every full stack developer needs that "design 101" education, and we have new developers every day. I'm going to take the class - It's an interesting stretching exercise for me.
- pknerd 14y agoI think the OP needs to pay attention a bit on the UX of his site first, getting 500 error is not a good sign.
- mdoyle 14y agoI would expect a site like this to provide a good user experience, e.g. confirmation that my email address was accepted. Signed up all the same because it sounds like a great idea and just what I'm looking for.
- nsmartt 14y agoFor those experiencing issues, I can attest that it was working perfectly a short time ago. I've gotten a confirmation email, and the "View the full curriculum" link resulted in an overlay. Edit: Just a note here. The "View the full curriculum" link doesn't work because designlab.js contains HTML instead of the script. Link: http://s3.amazonaws.com/designlab_static/js/designlab.js http://s3.amazonaws.com/designlab_static/js/designlab.js
- pcopley 14y agoMy lord, someone look at it in IE9. This is just laughable.
- twunde 14y agoYes it is. Designed for Mac users? I also like that there is minimal client-side validation for when you out in a nonemail. The easy fix would have been to use HTML5 form validation especially since it's not like they support older browsers
- heretohelp 14y agoFor those who want to know, this is what it looks like in IE8. http://imgur.com/a/f8U1u http://imgur.com/a/f8U1u No words.
- Gabriel_Martin 14y agoNot exactly a confidence booster, is it possible that hits are the goal? Pretty weak sauce if so.
- endlessvoid94 14y agoI get a 500 when I try to sign up.
- venturebros 14y agoI don't think I want to learn design from a site that hurts my eyes. Great concept but should be done by people that can design.
- hluska 14y agoI have some good things and some bad things to say. In the good column, I signed up (looks like you fixed the signup) and am looking forward to taking the course. Alas, I can't design my way out of a wet paper bag, so it may prove to be an exercise in futility...:) In bad news, the site looks horrid in Chromium 18 for Ubuntu 11.04. Feel free to send me email if you'd like a screen shot.
- jason_shah 14y agoThis is a cool idea. Initially I wondered how you would be able to 'teach' such an amorphous skill set but your use of experts/peers seems smart. I'd like to be more involved than a user= if you all were open to it but I don't consider myself an 'expert'.
- fratis 14y agoAre you guys part of the H&FJ web font beta? Or are you using Gotham on the web in violation of your license agreement with them?
- estel 14y agoThe fonts appear to be 404ing now, so I'm guessing the latter... (The site doesn't appear all too well designed in its new Times New Roman guise).
- dreamdu5t 14y agoThe site is functionally and visually broken: - Not cross-browser compatible, completely broken in IE - UI lacks instant feedback for submitting forms - Not pixel perfect (icons are blurry, poor font choice) - Broken links
- manuletroll 14y agoYep, it apparently triggers quirks mode in IE9. Probably because of the missing doctype ?
- kibaekr 14y agoI wasn't really sure what to do after I got on the website..I just gave you my email but is the curriculum supposed to come via email?
- petercooper 14y ago(Big fat notice: This is not a criticism!) I love how the row of quotes about design from Jobs, Graham, and Maeda look and feel like testimonials due to their format and placing, yet are not. This is an interesting technique. As a random visitor used to analyzing my internal responses to things like this, it makes me feel good yet analytically I realize anyone can throw up quotes like this. Clever!
- noduerme 14y agoOther people have pointed out the use of Gotham as being in possible violation of copyright. I'd like to point it out as a violation of good taste. Especially the way it's been h1/h2'd into a parody of itself. The line weights are utterly wrong and visually disturbing. It frankly looks more like Optima than anything else, and if you're not a designer, that's a pretty nasty thing to say about a font. I was thinking maybe this site would be somewhere I'd send trainees to get some basic knowledge to reinforce their skills, but obviously basic knowledge is harder to come by than you'd think. I'm almost tempted to say you can't teach people to design through a web experience alone, but I do think it could be done a lot better than this; starting with the terrible design of the site itself. I mean actually, looking at it again, is this some kind of typographer's in-joke? If so, and it got front-paged on HN, it's really funny. Lol. I just registered that they're showing pictures of PG, Steve Jobs and the president of RISD with "relevant quotes" down the page. Now I know it's a joke. Not really funny, but at least I get it.
- sbochins 14y agoNo offense. But if you are making a site to teach people how to be better designers, you shouldn't make the site so ugly. This seems like a simple bootstrap site, but much uglier. I think it would have been better to just use the defaults. You might want to work on the design of the site to get more people to sign up. I probably would have signed up otherwise.
- uses 14y agoBeing as commenters here are criticizing this site, what are some alternatives?
- limedaring 14y agoAs a designer, it makes me sad to see that while Design Lab is using a dot grid background, they failed to align the elements on top of the grid. (Good example of this: http://gridness.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sushi-and-robots-2.jpg http://gridness.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sushi-and-rob...) It's that kind of attention that really makes designs shine, not to mention aligning elements like that does a lot to make a design feel cohesive and less chaotic. It's disappointing to see a website purporting to teach design to miss a detail like that.
- miles_matthias 14y agoI'm excited about this. I've been reading design books for a while looking to become a more well-rounded developer but have struggled turning reading a book into actual design projects. So I'm excited about this format - weekly design challenges, feedback from peers and experts, and progressively advanced challenges. Also, the sign up worked for me. So it must be fixed by now.
- duopixel 14y agoI must confess my heart sunk for a split second as we're working on the exact same problem with a very similar approach at http://method.ac http://method.ac, but as they say: if there's no existing competitors it means that the problem likely doesn't exist in the first place. Looking forward to competing when we launch too!
- equilibrium 14y agoI think a plain white background for the site would have sufficed. It adds contrast, minimizes the noise and makes things cleaner and more legible.
- alpb 14y agoThere was that book called Bootstrapping Design (http://bootstrappingdesign.com/ http://bootstrappingdesign.com/) http://blog.studiofellow.com/2011/11/01/bootstrapping-design/ http://blog.studiofellow.com/2011/11/01/bootstrapping-design...
- mtjeantaylor 14y agoHas anybody tried to email the website to ask a specific question and the delivery failed? I could possibly be emailing the incorrect email.
- larrys 14y agoIn a "watch and learn" example of the halo effect, note the quoting of people on why to learn design. Personally the effect would work much better if they hadn't quoted Jobs. At a quick glance if they had just Graham, John Maeda and one other person or equal stature it might have seemed like a personal endorsement of sorts.