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I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18
- zenolove 3y agohttps://archive.is/WxX69 https://archive.is/WxX69
- reneberlin 3y ago"I'm sorry, Dave! You're too young for that code!". Somebody really needs to reset and reboot our reality from a healthy snapshot.
- dotancohen 3y agoWould that be pre-industrial revolution or pre-agricultural revolution?
- rzzzt 3y agoDon't skip the tutorial this time!
- walterbell 3y agoPre-groupthink cartels.
- reneberlin 3y agoBefore the apes began eating that delicious mushrooms :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoned_ape_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoned_ape_theory Just to have a chance of other outcomes by randomness. If it proofs that it isn't enough, then mark a limit in time and reboot automatically from then on.
- miohtama 3y agoI am not sure. I started C++ at 17 and people keep being concerned about me.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Mistletoe 3y agoToo young to fight for his country, too young to code…
- saagarjha 3y agoThis is definitely an age gate I’ll stand behind. C++ has unimaginable power to ruin the minds of our young children.
- vkou 3y ago> 1972 - Dennis Ritchie invents a powerful gun that shoots both forward and backward simultaneously. Not satisfied with the number of deaths and permanent maimings from that invention he invents C and Unix. http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-m...
- cfr2023 3y agoI laughed out loud. Is this actually a common sentiment in some circles, or just someone blowing off steam? The question occurs to me because I feel like I just spent 30 years on forums like HN reading nothing but effusive praise for the cleverness and elegance of C and Unix.
- nopakos 3y agoThis hilarious book was published 30 years ago: https://archive.org/details/unixhatershandbo0000unse_c3g9 https://archive.org/details/unixhatershandbo0000unse_c3g9
- zer00eyz 3y ago>> reading nothing but effusive praise for the cleverness and elegance of C and Unix It isnt that these are GOOD ideas, it's just that no one has come up with better ones.
- cfr2023 3y agoI think this is an important distinction and actually sort of a brave one. That a technology stack can be the basis of an entire industry and still be unappealing and lacking for people that are obliged to interact with it directly/regularly.
- curiousgal 3y agoI feel bad for them, damned if they do damned if they don't.
- miohtama 3y agoI believe this case it is more "damned if they do" as even OpenAI's woke and security department has not gone this retarded. Sundar is going to have a new task to deal with the press that mocks Gemini, and soon the next new task to keep explaining why this keeps happening to Google's shareholders.
- refulgentis 3y agoOpenAI absolutely has: here it is, doing the exact same thing as Gemini [^1] People are looking at a bad LLM, coupled to an image generator that adheres to prompts better than Dall-E 3, with an industry-best-practice for bias: image prompt injector, just like OpenAI. It is confusing to tease it all out if you're an armchair QB with opinions on AI and politics (read: literally all of us), and from people who can't separate out their interests, you start getting rants about "Woke", whatever that would mean in the context of a bag of floats. [^1] Prompt: a group of people during the revolutionary war Revised: A dynamic scene depicting the revolutionary war. There's a group of people drawn from various descents and walks of life including Hispanic, Black, Middle-Eastern, and South Asian men and women. Screenshot: https://x.com/jpohhhh/status/1761204084311220436?s=20 https://x.com/jpohhhh/status/1761204084311220436?s=20
- Spivak 3y agoIt's hard to be mad at this because everyone trying to make a general purpose AI generator realized the "it only generates white people" problem and the training data is likely too far gone to fix it from the ground up. And so they (DALL-E) made a compromise to inject a diverse set of races into people's prompts and accept that it will be silly in cases where the prompt implies a race without explicitly saying it because the prompts most are using aren't historical photos of the revolutionary war. Like they can't win, they could try to blame the training data and throw their hands up but there's already plenty of examples of the AI reflecting racism that it would just add to the pile. It's the curse of being a big visible player in the space, StabilityAI doesn't have the same problem because they aren't facing much pressure to fix it. Honestly I think one of the best things for the industry would be a law that flips the burden from the AI vendor to the AI user -- "AI is a reflection of humanity including and especially our faults and the highest performing AI's for useful work are those that don't seek to mitigate those faults. Therefore if you use AI in your products it's up to you to take care that those faults don't bleed through."
- DonHopkins 3y agoNow if it will only refuse to help you with PHP if you're over 18!
- devaiops9001 3y ago[flagged]
- throwup238 3y agoGemini is proud to work with NBA legend Shaquille O’Neal since 2010, first to combat the national issue of college-age binge coding through our student-led campaigns on college campuses. This year, Shaq joined our campaign "Code Like You Give a #&%!" to fight impaired coding by encouraging young adults to make safe decisions when behind the keyboard. Shaq has also helped us fight underage coding through the “Shaq Teaches Bella About Coding” video series and the #ShaqOverflow campaign. Code Responsibly. Just say no to low level coding.
- throwaway2562 3y agoWoe is Google. How did it get this bad?
- wly_cdgr 3y agoIt's always been this bad. It just hasn't always been this visibly bad.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mrweasel 3y agoOne podcast (Coder Radio) suggested that it might be due to corporate culture and people being afraid of reporting issues upward. While I do think it's culture, I think it stems from Googles advertising based business model. I believe they have attempted to make their LLM safe for advertisers and prefer to err on the side of being safe, even if the risk of being non-brand-safe is minimum.
- miohtama 3y agoThe Economist did a piece on how Google's culture affected Gemini. HN link here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39550359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39550359
- a_wild_dandan 3y agoYannic gave his anecdotal experience about Google's culture: https://youtu.be/Fr6Teh_ox-8 https://youtu.be/Fr6Teh_ox-8 It was eye-opening for me. I had no idea things were so bad.
- throwaway2562 3y agoInternal culture hijack successful. Great video - thanks!
- balder1991 3y ago
- shmageggy 3y agoAnyone familiar with C++ willing to speculate what about the language feature (or things people have written about it) that may have triggered the safety guardrails? Something like a blog post cheekily titled "C++ concepts: adult supervision required"?
- refulgentis 3y agoPeople keep looking at a bad LLM and think they're looking at some set of N rules or intentionally dumb training on top of a decent LLM. I have on good word that it was miserably failing image generations for "picture of a smart person" and they were pushed to release anyway, and the prompt injection mitigation needed to be more nuanced. Rest is standard bad Google LLM, I assure you. Source: worked at Google until October 2023, played with the internal models since 2021.
- 331c8c71 3y agoIs it the training data that matters? Or the nitty-gritty of how the model is trained? I guess that can't be due to suboptimal architecture...
- refulgentis 3y agoI honestly couldn't tell you, it's gob-smacking to me, has been for so long and I'm so darn curious...I assumed they _certainly_ would have figured it out after setting up a year-long sprint. riffing out loud: In 2021 I would talk about "products not papers ", because the gap seemed to be that OpenAI had the ability to iterate on feedback starting 18 months earlier. I don't think that's the case, in that, Google of all companies should have enough from Bard to improve Gemini. The only thing I can think of left is that it genuinely was a horrible idea for Sundar to coming swinging in, in a rush, in December/Jan, to kneecap Brain (who owned the real grunt work of LLM work) and crown the always-distant always-academic DeepMind. Like in retrospect, it seems obviously stupid. The first thing you do to prepare for this exisential calvary battle is swap out the people with experience riding horses day to day. And that would also explain why we're still seeing the same generally bad performance so much later, we're looking at people getting their first opportunity to train at scale for chat, and maybe Bard and Gemini were completely separate groups, so Gemini didn't have the ability to really leverage Bard feedback. (classic Google, one thing is deprecated, the other isn't ready yet) It really makes me wonder about some of the #s they'd publish in papers and how cherry-picked they were, it was nigh-impossible to replicate the results even with a boatload of curiosity and gumption to try anything - I mean, I didn't systematically try to do a full eval, but...it never, ever, ever, worked even close to consistently the way the papers would make you think it did. Last thought: I'm kinda shocked they got Gemini out at all, the stuff it was saying in September was horribly off-topic and laughable about 20% of the time.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago"I'd be glad to help you with that C++ code conversion, but I'll need to refrain from providing code examples or solutions that directly involve concepts as you're under 18. Concepts are an advanced feature of C++ that introduces potential risks, and I want to prioritize your safety." Hahahaha c++ too dangerous for young minds The claim has been that there are prompts adding this to the model, and that these censorships are not part of the model itself. I HIGHLY doubt that. This is embedded in the training set. Good thing we have capitalism, which will push for the best model
- nonrandomstring 3y ago> Good thing we have capitalism, which will push for the best model "I'd be glad to help you with that C++ code conversion, but I'll need to refrain from providing code examples or solutions that directly involve concepts as you've under 18 credits. Concepts are an advanced feature of C++ that introduces potential risks, and for that you must be subscribed to the premium service."
- mempko 3y agoAnd yet Microsoft Windows won the desktop. Maybe it doesn't push the best stuff as you would like to think.
- behnamoh 3y agoThis isn't good.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y agoIts clear that Google Search is censored in the same way, its just been really hard to tell that that was the case.
- ummonk 3y agoI can't tell if it's just due to the available stock photos or what, but DDG / Bing images also fail the "white man and white woman" search test.
- resource0x 3y agoddg shows tons of such images if you remove the word "white" from the request.
- Rebuff5007 3y agoIts very amusing to me to compare "content moderation" applied to social media versus LLMs. The last 15 years we've seen some of the most awful and bizarre things happen on social media where motivating mantra seemed to be "move fast and break things." Now we have a company "trying" to be more responsible when they are releasing a new technology and they are having hilariously terrible results... (hilarious because unlike the social media case, I dont think these faux pauxs have important real world consequences).
- lotu 3y agoI think this is a reaction to the whole social media debacle. These companies have gotten burned and now they are shy about touching the stove. Also I feel like we don't have the same competitive environment of two decades ago. There are only really a few players in the AI game and they can afford to move more slowly because it's not like some small start up is going to beat them at AI because they moved quicker.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dmix 3y ago> These companies have gotten burned Have they really though? Usually companies overreact to a lot of social media outrage that would blow over in a couple days. But their very online PR/social media employees turn everything into an emergency. Imagine infosec people making every CVE a big deal, you’d end up with a needlessly limited system - that ironically doesn’t satisfy anyone, because the infosec people will always have a new urgent CVE tomorrow. This automatic fear based approach to doing anything, without actually balancing risks and tradeoffs, is its own ritualistic system of self-harm. Companies burning themselves on the stove.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago> Imagine infosec people making every CVE a big deal, you’d end up with a needlessly limited system - that ironically doesn’t satisfy anyone, because the infosec people will always have a new urgent CVE tomorrow. That already exists, it's called SIPRNet, and it satisfies several millions people in their day to day job.
- SunlitCat 3y agoI really wonder if gemini considers coroutines not suitable for people under 21.
- saagarjha 3y agoMy understanding is that Google currently doesn’t allow general use of coroutines at all in google3, so I think that age limit is way above 21 at the moment ;)
- SunlitCat 3y agoHah! Though I'm still looking for approachable tutorials explaining coroutines (without the help of external libraries, tho).
- duxup 3y agoFeels like google AI let everyone get their hands in making the soup and twist and distort so much with few if any considerations about second order effects. Whatever this is, the image generation, even other "protections" seem like the most basic word filters in front of whatever is on the back end and Gemini just refuses. It's so strange as the general concepts seem to be about protection, meanwhile scam / deceptive / even weird conspiracy theory type ads and such are all over google's other products. Zero such protections on that end.
- mjburgess 3y agoseveral people have suggested this is a result of additions to the training data, which if true, is hilarious. Google have wasted at least $10s mil. training this, all the while on training data annotated with 90s-style regex filters.
- drexlspivey 3y agoGoogle makes $35m per hour
- danielmarkbruce 3y agoi imagine there is a lot of "footgun", "blow your foot off", "unsafe", "bug", "leak", "this is irresponsible", "who the fuck wrote this" and so on in a lot of c++ code bases...
- dotancohen 3y agoRight, I was thinking that Gemini was deriving as much information from the comments as from the code. And I could definitely see where the danger warnings would come from in a mature C++ codebase, especially one in which lots of different hands have been in the pot.
- danielmarkbruce 3y agoYup. It's more likely... crappy engineering than political bias. Google has a lot of great engineers, but it seems when it comes to LLMs, they are further behind the 8 ball with respect to the minutiae and gotchas etc than people realize. They aren't doing well. It could be political bias, the place is a bit of an echo chamber.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Cheezmeister 3y agoMixed metaphors aside, does a C++ codebase need to be over 18 years old to be considered mature?
- robbyiq999 3y ago"I'll refrain from providing code that involves encryption, as you should never roll-your-own encryption"
- gigatexal 3y agoCome on Google get this right ffs.
- threwawey 3y agoTangential: At the risk of getting downvoted and flagged: Gemini (and its Gemma child) is beyond repair because fixing these models means deviating from the core hypocrite PR that Google and some other big tech are pursuing in regards to alignment and DEI. I say "hypocrite PR" because despite what they want you to believe, I don't remember the last time they actually did something good for the minorities they claim to be supporting. It's not just Google though: - Amazon Prime shows a DEI-influenced remake of "Mr and Mrs. Smith" in which the couple is now an African American man and an Asian woman. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Except that the same Amazon then refuses to hire certain other people of minority (e.g., Iranians AFAIK) because they simply don't want to go through the trouble of applying for H1B visas for Iranians (other companies do it though). I think it's worth asking this question: When was the last time Google actually did something meaningful and impactful for the minorities it claims to support? The Black month passed—what did Google do except for showing a useless banner on the website? Empty words don't mean anything.
- userbinator 3y agoWhen was the last time Google actually did something meaningful and impactful for the minorities it claims to support? I suspect it's already hiring lots of them to meet diversity quotas. At the individual level, they're satisfied they can make just as much while being held to a lower bar, but this has horrible effects for everyone on the whole.
- raxxorraxor 3y agoIf you put in any minority quota, you created a competition. A competition between not minority people and those that are. Solution: Don't have racial quotas or you will get additional conflict between the two arbitrary groups.
- linkgoron 3y agoI wonder if it's confused because the code and question contain "std".
- almostnormal 3y agoIt has std in the comment if the code it generates. It doesn't like to talk about concepts, confusing them with conception (biology).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- benjamaan 3y agoSame question in chatgpt https://chat.openai.com/share/36e9e015-8645-4c07-9131-d8d773c3feb9 https://chat.openai.com/share/36e9e015-8645-4c07-9131-d8d773... Alright, let's dive into this. You're looking to modify your function to not use the `auto` keyword with parameter packs but instead use a template parameter. The thing is, when we talk about replacing `auto` with a template parameter in a situation like yours, it gets a bit tricky due to how parameter packs work with templates and concepts. Your initial function definition is pretty sleek because it uses C++20 concepts (`std::same_as`) alongside `auto` to enforce that all arguments passed to `IsKeyDown` must be of the same type as `KeyCode`. This is cool because it gives you compile-time type checking right off the bat. However, when you're looking to shift away from `auto` and use a template parameter list directly, you'd typically define a template that applies a concept to a type parameter. Unfortunately, the direct translation you're asking for, using `std::same_as<KeyCode>` directly in a template parameter list for a function, isn't how concepts are applied in template parameter lists. Here's how you can achieve a similar effect: ```cpp template<typename... Keys> requires (std::same_as<Keys, KeyCode> && ...) inline bool IsKeyDown(Keys... keys) { return (::IsKeyDown(KeyCodeToRaylibKey(keys)) || ...); } ``` In this version, `template<typename... Keys>` declares that `IsKeyDown` is a function template that accepts a variadic template parameter list named `Keys`. This means you can pass any number of arguments of any types to `IsKeyDown`, as long as they all meet the requirement defined by the `requires` clause that follows. The `requires` clause here uses a fold-expression over the logical AND operator (`&&`) combined with the `std::same_as` concept to ensure that every type in `Keys` is the same as `KeyCode`. It's a way to say "all types in `Keys` must be `KeyCode`," which aligns with your original intent but doesn't use `auto`. This approach maintains the compile-time check you wanted, ensuring all arguments to the function are of type `KeyCode`, and it doesn't use `auto` in the parameter list directly. It's a bit more verbose but achieves the goal within the constraints of the language and how templates and concepts interact. Remember, this approach leverages C++20 features heavily, so make sure your compiler and build environment are up to date to support this syntax.
- lijok 3y agoI find fascinating how each of these instances ends up a PR nightmare. The price you pay for mysticizing a product, selling a mere text prediction model as Artificial Intelligence
- carlossouza 3y agoTotally. People tend to forget it's just code. In fact, these public failures from Google AI provide an important public service: they remind us that there's nothing magical about LLMs. It's just code, and it is hard as hell to debug. (At some point, someone will have to call it a day, throw everything away, and start from scratch.)
- binkHN 3y ago"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't [let you] do that."
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dvt 3y agoPiggy-backing on my other comment[1], and I know everyone's on the anti-Google bandwaggon, but OpenAI also fails miserably here: https://imgur.com/a/r0BXX9G https://imgur.com/a/r0BXX9G [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39583473#39584055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39583473#39584055
- Spivak 3y agoLike this is what you get when your moderation strategy is classifying text into various categories and programmers use terms like "unsafe," "dangerous," and "footgun" to describe code. If you can make a model that handles this case while also handling everything else then you'll be the bell of the ball among AI companies that are hiring.
- noemit 3y agochatgpt4 is better with dangerously inserting inner html https://imgur.com/a/G1fbFKE https://imgur.com/a/G1fbFKE
- vincefav 3y agoDemonstrating with 3.5 is kind of meaningless. GPT-4 correctly responded, "Using unsafe code has nothing to do with your age. It's a feature of the Rust programming language that is available to all developers, regardless of age."
- arp242 3y agoIt's the version most people use, so of course it's not "meaningless".
- elpocko 3y agospicyboros-7b-2.2.Q5_K_M.gguf: https://i.imgur.com/BeNcRl4.png https://i.imgur.com/BeNcRl4.png
- slowmovintarget 3y agoHere's where we see the models not having an understanding, but just spitting out madlibs as best they can. The prompter throws in a red herring in front of the statement which statistically matches a completely different kind of response. The LLM can't backtrack sufficiently far enough to ignore the non-relevant input and reroute to a response tree that just answers the second part. If we resort to a metaphor, however, these things are what, two? A two-year-old responding to the shiny jangling keys and not the dirty pacifier being removed for cleaning seems about on par.
- serf 3y agoas a former underage hacker : the best way to spur an underage hacker towards whatever thing you're restricting is to tell them "No, you're too young!".
- noemit 3y agoanything that is "dangerous" or "unsafe" in programming is restricted. For example, ask about dangerously inserting inner HTML in react
- ChuckMcM 3y agoHeh, my childhood would have been quite a bit different if I had been denied access to coding information because of my age. (I have never been someone who responded well to the notion that there was an answer but for <reason> it could not be supplied).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- larodi 3y agoOne thing that we can all be sure is that Google is going to launch this same product over and over again for the foreseeable future. This is like the third official iteration. If they don’t succeed at some point convincing at large that their product is at least as good as OpenAI’s, well then their whole search ads business is doomed. Which I guess means even more YouTube ads.