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'Simply good' Chinese electric cars power ahead of inferior US rivals
- jaggs 3y agohttps://archive.ph/IjRUr https://archive.ph/IjRUr
- londons_explore 3y agoTrade barriers are about to go up all over the world for cars. It won't matter which country makes the best ones. You'll be forced to buy one from a manufacturer headquartered in a friendly nation.
- Arnt 3y agoWhat makes you think so? Perhaps an example… Brazil? Why will Brazil add trade barriers? I ask because AFAICT the people who are in favour of trade barriers are the same who always are. The situation doesn't seem unusual. We have roughly the usual number of populists waving footguns, etc. What am I overlooking?
- londons_explore 3y agoCar manufacturers were mostly based in US/Europe/Japan for the past 50+ years. Each market mostly stuck to their own cars, but also allowed sales from the other big manufacturers. Those big brands were allowed to start factories in other countries to avoid tariffs and gain market access. However, soon China will be selling electric cars that are both cheaper and better than any of the traditional makers, and looking to sell them worldwide. This will trigger protectionist actions in the big manufacturers countries, but also seeing their markets dry up, all those countries will also be negotiating trade deals with any country who will listen to also block China selling to their country.
- barrysteve 3y agoIt's artificial. The Chinese reputation is so poor in the West, people have to be forced to buy them. The cars coming out of traditional manufacturers have onbvious flaws that could be fixed tomorrow. But they don't...
- asadotzler 3y agoWe all laughed at the first kids in our high school to buy cheap-o Hyundai Excels and today Hyundai is a top global brand for tech, safety, and customer satisfaction. Sure that took 20 years to get up to speed but China can probably move a lot faster given their solid digital goods footing and existing supply chains. We'll laugh at the first ones brought in from Mexico or whatever, but 10 to 15 years from now, if the Chinese are allowed to sell on reasonable footing with other foreign makers, Chinese EVs will be commonplace on US roads.
- engineer_22 3y agoHyundai is Korean
- xsmasher 3y agoParent poster knows that, and is offering an example path that Chinese cars will take.
- engineer_22 3y agoKorea is a strategic US partner.
- Arnt 3y agoI see what you mean. However, I think there's a minor disconnect: I can easily see how e.g. the US might want to block sales from China to e.g. Brazil, but the way from wanting a goal to having an agreement ratified by both countries is long and involves painful phases like getting internal agreement about the concessions made.
- hakfoo 3y agoI thought Brazil was famous for their trade barriers on electronics. ISTR that was the reason that some platforms (i. e. the Sega Genesis) had absurd longevity there-- there was a local license-built version at a reasonable price, and if you wanted a PS3, you'd pay twice the price in import duties. The Chinese cars are compelling, so I don't doubt that Washington will say "they won't look so good if the $19k starting price became $82k after penalty taxes."
- Arnt 3y agoI suspect that GP agreed with you, but substituted "all over the world" for "Washington" to make it sound better.
- thumbsup-_- 3y agowhat you are saying is reasonable but since you mentioned such a broad statement, there will be comments like "Why do you think Uzbekistan will raise trade barriers?"
- nonethewiser 3y ago> It won't matter which country makes the best ones. You'll be forced to buy one from a manufacturer headquartered in a friendly nation. Great. China remotely controlling vehicles in the US is a real national security threat.
- shirro 3y agoPerhaps in some countries but low population/high labor cost places like Australia and NZ don't have domestic vehicle manufacturing industries to protect and free trade opens access to foreign markets for their exports. If "friendly nations" want to reinvest and reopen domestic vehicle manufacturing operations we might show some interest but they all ran away when we stopped paying them massive subsidies for inefficient production of unpopular vehicles.
- DoingIsLearning 3y agoStupid market question I understand that China's volatile and the whole real estate situation. But considering how much potential BYD has to steal EV lunch why is the stock price not been reflecting that? It has been at least a trimester of news about 'traditional' auto makers slashing prices and asking for trade restrictions on BYD. I would expect NVIDIA levels of rally at this point on BYD's stock?
- jarbus 3y agoGood question, just a thought: maybe because it’s a Chinese company and trade restrictions can be easily placed if BYD starts interfering with western markets?
- bryanlarsen 3y agoBYD is building a factory in Europe and plans on building one in Mexico. Trade restrictions will be very hard to place on Europe-built and USMCA-built cars.
- yorwba 3y agoLots of competition and shrinking EV sales in their home market https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-deliveries-continue-fall-china-194935204.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-deliveries-continue-fall-c...
- nonethewiser 3y ago> But considering how much potential BYD has to steal EV lunch why is the stock price not been reflecting that? Its as simple as being a Chinese stock. Whether justified or not, that’s the concern. Even among Chinese people. The stock market is seen as gambling in China.
- jkic47 3y agoasking as i did not see it in the linked article. Would the Chinese cars pass US and EU crash tests? are they of roughly the same size that these markets are used to? "simply better" seems rather vague. I'd love to see more options on the EV market and hope tarrifs don't happen.
- firecall 3y agoBYD pass Australian safety standards, so they probably pass EU and USA standards. BYD are increasingly popular in AU :-/
- DiogenesKynikos 3y agoThe BYD Atto 3 has a 5-star Euro NCAP crash rating: https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=aGCt-u5iWkLcVjaU https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=aGCt-u5iWkLcVjaU.
- simonblack 3y agoWe're looking at a repeat of the era when Japanese cars hit the market back in the 1960s. (Or Korean companies in the 80s) Over the course of some years, we'll find which Chinese brands are good, and which brands are not so good. Some of our local brands will merge and/or disappear, as they get squeezed out. It'll be pretty much the 'Get a new one, throw away an old one' meme for a roughly constant number of car companies.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- drewg123 3y agoI tend to think its similar what happened in the 70s, when gasoline got expensive. The US manufacturers were slow to react, and made a few terrible "compliance" cars (Chevy Chevette, Ford Pinto), but continued to try to milk what had been their bread and butter as long as they could. Meanwhile, European and Japanese imports ate their lunch by delivering cars with good fuel economy that were not objectively awful. I tend to think that GM and Ford haven't fully bought into electric cars, so the experience with those cars tends to be fairly miserable (terrible charging, bad reliability). The interesting thing to me is how far behind the curve the Japanese brands are this time around.
- nonethewiser 3y agoI think it’s because the electronics supply chain for the entire world is in China.