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I like how about the same time some else made a HN post title "Google Gemini’s Woke Catechism". Google destroying YT Music team that tried to unionize, runs com

I like how about the same time some else made a HN post title "Google Gemini’s Woke Catechism". Google destroying YT Music team that tried to unionize, runs completely opposite to the "Woke Catechism" or any leftist ideas.

nine_zeros 3y ago
That's because the catchall definition of "leftism" or "woke" is merely a caricature designed by Republicans. These organizations will pick and choose whatever labels work for them the best at any point in time. Culture wars are for fools while shareholders make out like bandits at the expense of said fools.
- Supermancho 3y ago
  leftism and woke do not share a definition. Leftism is nonsensical, at best, fair enough. Woke is regarding the ethos that words and (lack of) representation can be equated with physical harm. I don't subscribe to that and I'm certainly not a Republican.
  - afarviral 3y ago
    So words and representation are simply unimportant in your view or just a little less important? If so that's essentially what I thought being "woke" was, simply being "awake" (aware of) psycho-socio and socio-econonomical (structuralist) factors that affect us all. Waking up from simple prejudices against people. The narrative that it's all gone too far may have some truth to it, but it's also a convenient narrative to discredit, scapegoat and undermine the movement.
    - Supermancho 3y ago
      > So words and representation are simply unimportant in your view or just a little less important? Being able to speak and express yourself, whatever you views, is the most important thing for a functional and enduring society. How you are judged beyond that, is secondary to that basic right. Cruelty of words is a concept suffered by the bourgeois and upper classes, who have little knowledge of starvation and brutality; real suffering, real violence and powerlessness. The beauty of speech, is that you can speak back. Ideas combat each other, instead of stacking bodies. Right now, the idea is that speech needs to be limited, is winning. I don't agree and that's the beauty of it.
      - afarviral 3y ago
        I resonate with the idea of "free speech" in terms of avoiding government oppression, it is a really important and foundational idea. As a catch-all, however, I don't think it works quite so well in the age of social media. Ideas are spreading like wildfire which have no rhyme or reason to them, that cater to psychological maws and not facts, and a bulwark of free speech arms liars with the power to reach millions with a few keystrokes. The power of reason has consistently lost to more blunt instruments. So I think it's, at best, neutral for social media platforms to drop people that aren't woke. As for legal constructs aiming to protect minorities, they don't plausibly set up a slippery slope to dictatorship in my view. I'm of the view that literal absolute free speech that allows any speech no matter how directly harmful or immediately dangerous is itself detrimental to a well-functioning society and public safety. I often notice transphobic people trying argue that "free speech" is being eroded around bills impacting trans and find this unpersuasive, even childish.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        virbyr 3y ago
        If you can be punished by these overbearing social media platforms - or even by the judicial system - merely for referring to a man as a man, then how is that not an erosion of free speech? It gives others far too much power over what you're allowed to say.
        afarviral 3y ago
        I'm not saying that free speech need be chucked away, but that we should strive to maintain a balance which protects societies from bad actors. Merely misgendering someone isn't necessarily abusive, but a pattern of consistent harassment is. If a privately owned company want to allow the former and not the latter, then I'm okay with it.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Pretty standard. Stuff like that isn't even worth enough of our conscious attention for the absurdity or hypocrisy to be noticed.
lenkite 3y ago
Unionism and Wokeism are at logger-heads with each other, so why is this even surprising ?
lm28469 3y ago
Wokeism is about identity politics, which is the exact opposite of class struggle, and this is the reason why companies like Google have nothing to fear anymore because no single group is large enough to be a threat

nine_zeros 3y ago

That's because the catchall definition of "leftism" or "woke" is merely a caricature designed by Republicans. These organizations will pick and choose whatever labels work for them the best at any point in time. Culture wars are for fools while shareholders make out like bandits at the expense of said fools.

Supermancho 3y ago
leftism and woke do not share a definition. Leftism is nonsensical, at best, fair enough. Woke is regarding the ethos that words and (lack of) representation can be equated with physical harm. I don't subscribe to that and I'm certainly not a Republican.
- afarviral 3y ago
  So words and representation are simply unimportant in your view or just a little less important? If so that's essentially what I thought being "woke" was, simply being "awake" (aware of) psycho-socio and socio-econonomical (structuralist) factors that affect us all. Waking up from simple prejudices against people. The narrative that it's all gone too far may have some truth to it, but it's also a convenient narrative to discredit, scapegoat and undermine the movement.
  - Supermancho 3y ago
    > So words and representation are simply unimportant in your view or just a little less important? Being able to speak and express yourself, whatever you views, is the most important thing for a functional and enduring society. How you are judged beyond that, is secondary to that basic right. Cruelty of words is a concept suffered by the bourgeois and upper classes, who have little knowledge of starvation and brutality; real suffering, real violence and powerlessness. The beauty of speech, is that you can speak back. Ideas combat each other, instead of stacking bodies. Right now, the idea is that speech needs to be limited, is winning. I don't agree and that's the beauty of it.
    - afarviral 3y ago
      I resonate with the idea of "free speech" in terms of avoiding government oppression, it is a really important and foundational idea. As a catch-all, however, I don't think it works quite so well in the age of social media. Ideas are spreading like wildfire which have no rhyme or reason to them, that cater to psychological maws and not facts, and a bulwark of free speech arms liars with the power to reach millions with a few keystrokes. The power of reason has consistently lost to more blunt instruments. So I think it's, at best, neutral for social media platforms to drop people that aren't woke. As for legal constructs aiming to protect minorities, they don't plausibly set up a slippery slope to dictatorship in my view. I'm of the view that literal absolute free speech that allows any speech no matter how directly harmful or immediately dangerous is itself detrimental to a well-functioning society and public safety. I often notice transphobic people trying argue that "free speech" is being eroded around bills impacting trans and find this unpersuasive, even childish.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - virbyr 3y ago
        If you can be punished by these overbearing social media platforms - or even by the judicial system - merely for referring to a man as a man, then how is that not an erosion of free speech? It gives others far too much power over what you're allowed to say.
        afarviral 3y ago
        I'm not saying that free speech need be chucked away, but that we should strive to maintain a balance which protects societies from bad actors. Merely misgendering someone isn't necessarily abusive, but a pattern of consistent harassment is. If a privately owned company want to allow the former and not the latter, then I'm okay with it.

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago

Pretty standard. Stuff like that isn't even worth enough of our conscious attention for the absurdity or hypocrisy to be noticed.

lenkite 3y ago

Unionism and Wokeism are at logger-heads with each other, so why is this even surprising ?

lm28469 3y ago

Wokeism is about identity politics, which is the exact opposite of class struggle, and this is the reason why companies like Google have nothing to fear anymore because no single group is large enough to be a threat