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I don't think he has any resentment about jumping off "too soon" as you say. He specifically abandoned ship because he didn't align with the organization anymo

I don't think he has any resentment about jumping off "too soon" as you say. He specifically abandoned ship because he didn't align with the organization anymore. I suspect this has been a long time coming given his public commentary on AI. He's goal on OpenAI investments were to keep close watch on the development of AI. If you believe the public comments or not is an entirely different matter though I do feel like there is sincerity in Elons AI comments.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
I’d offer that Musk hasnt shown any consistent principle motivating his behavior other than gathering power, in the face of stated motivations. So while he may genuinely believe what he is saying, the inherent philosophical conflicts in his consistent narcissistic actions, have poisoned any other possible position to such an extent that he has lost all moral credibility Revealed preferences never lie
- tim333 3y ago
  He seems to broadly pursue projects he considers helpful to humanity like sustainable energy, the multiplanetary thing and setting up OpenAI. You can interpret people's motivations in different ways but it doesn't look like just power gathering to me. I mean if he was that power hungry you'd expect him to try to monopolize AI for himself rather than make it open.
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    What would it look like to monopolize AI for himself?
    - the_optimist 3y ago
      The guy literally donates to a non-profit the funds to open source the technology with a clear open and benevolent charter. And somehow you attach this to nefarious ends. Out of curiosity, what’s your converse? What do you actually think he would actually have done if he had sought to “monopolize AI for himself”? Seems to me it would most definitely not include what he did in this actual reality.
      - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
        I asked simply to specify the argument criteria. You just went on a fallacy laden rant to redirect to me to define those criteria So can you clarify?
    - tim333 3y ago
      I think it would have looked a bit like what Sam is doing now - turning OpenAI to ClosedAI and having it run by himself.
  - Aeolun 3y ago
    That just sounds like a messiah complex to me? To be fair, in regards to his actual companies I don’t have much of a complaint, it’s his cult of personality that I can’t stand.
    - llamaLord 3y ago
      Yeah, but demonizing the individual because of the people who follow him is a bit logically inconsistent. Granted, he doesn't fully comprehend the impact things he says and does can have when they're amplified through the mountain of people that hang off his every word. But the dudes Autistic, it shouldn't surprise anyone that intuitively understanding and anticipating the inner workings of large amorphous social-structures isn't exactly his strongest skill.
      - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
        > it shouldn't surprise anyone that intuitively understanding and anticipating the inner workings of large amorphous social-structures isn't exactly his strongest skill I’m not sure if you’re trying to help or hurt the case for musk, but the description you put here tells me this is somebody that if that’s true, I never want them in any power in any organizations. You just described probably the most important skill of a leader being completely absent
        Aeolun 3y ago
        That’s why it’s curious he managed to accomplish everything he did. Clearly something must be going right.
        nuancebydefault 3y ago
        ... most important skill of a leader being completely absent Maybe these are very coincidal exceptions to your rule, but if it had been absent, the high volume versions of Teslas would not have existed, SpaceX would not exist and plenty more tax money would have flown to NASA. Anyways, with or without all cult culture around his person, bottom line his intentions towards humanity are pure, we should at least give him that.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    > I mean if he was that power hungry you'd expect him to try to monopolize AI for himself rather than make it open Can you point me to the Github repository for Grok ? That's right it doesn't exist so the facts on the ground are that he doesn't care about openness. And if he truly cared about humanity he would give away all of the designs, code etc for Tesla, SpaceX etc.
    - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      Don’t forget the most important thing: the data The second Elon makes the data for all his companies open (not patents which are already “open”) I’ll start believing him
    - mft_ 3y ago
      Or just maybe —and bear with me here-- there’s a place in the universe for both for-profit entities, and entities set up with different goals? I’m no Musk apologist, but the idea that he’s inconsistent or a hypocrite because he’s expecting OpenAI to stick to their founding principles whilst also running for-profit companies in highly competitive markets, is just bizarre.
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    How does manipulating MemeCoin prices or buying Twitter to bring back the n-word benefit humanity? While the broad strokes of Tesla and SpaceX might benefit humanity, he seems to have no compunction about doing screwed up things with those companies, either. Remember when he proposed putting indentured servants on Mars?
    - instagraham 3y ago
      I think it's arguable that SpaceX and Tesla represent far more of Musk's contribution than anything else. But even with X, it helps to realise, he thinks he is doing good for the world by echoing rw thought.
      - kerkeslager 3y ago
        > I think it's arguable that SpaceX and Tesla represent far more of Musk's contribution than anything else. Eh, how much of a contribution did Elon Musk actually make to those things? He got them started, but owning something isn't a contribution, frankly. There are thousands of workers involved in those companies, and some of those workers are explicitly tasked with managing Musk's free-floating ego so he doesn't screw things up. If Musk died Tesla stock would probably tank in price, but that price change would represent a loss in hype, not in the value of Tesla. The relevant engineering talent that's there, would all still be there. > But even with X, it helps to realise, he thinks he is doing good for the world by echoing rw thought. Obviously, but who cares? Intentions matter because a person who doesn't intend to cause harm can learn from their mistakes and causing harm. But Elon Musk doesn't think he's making mistakes, so his intentions don't particularly matter--he's not going to learn from his mistakes and he's just going to keep going on causing the same harms.
        jakderrida 3y ago
        > He got them started, but owning something isn't a contribution, frankly. Just an aside, he didn't get Tesla started. Although, he's often cited as the founder by news organizations, there is zero case for that claim.
  - tarsinge 3y ago
    This is proven false by many of his behaviors, like sabotaging high speed train projects with dumb car tunnels. This was a blatant misuse of his reputation at the time to make society worse for saving his business interests. Mars talks were nonsense. FSD was a lie. Tesla is a business success but in the end it’s just cars. It’s improving humanity as much as an iPhone. So no he is only after power, helping humanity is just his marketing angle for gullible geeks.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      The CHSR project never stopped. It never spent a dollar exploring Hyperloop as an alternative. The people who sabotaged CHSR are the consultants who have extracted billions of dollars with little to show for it. The sabotage was entirely financial. Blaming Musk for the failures of CHSR because he’s on the sidelines casually offering an opinion is absurd on its face. It’s the kind of unhinged ranting nonsense you’d expect from the likes of YouTube popularity whores like Thunderfoot.
    - boringg 3y ago
      I dont doubt power is part of it but i will correct your assertion about Tesla. Tesla has created the EV market - the O&G companies killed it in the 90s and Tesla made it possible otherwise right now wed still be looking at gas vehicles. And yes going to EVs will help humanity - even if its only 20% of the fleet.
      - kuboble 3y ago
        > otherwise right now wed still be looking at gas vehicles But is it really true? It feels to me that Tesla might have only sped up the EV market emergence by a couple of years and given the growth of battery's capacity/price/density over the years it was inevitable.
        boringg 3y ago
        Sheer force of will did Tesla manage to bring around the EV market. Noone else had any interest in doing it and theres no way any of the incumbent car companies would have pursued it even if it was more viable from a battery perspective. Any other reading of that era of industry would be re-writing a narrative to diminish what Tesla really did. It is too bad he has earned so many detractors (through his own mistakes) because many of his accomplishments are exceptional.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

I’d offer that Musk hasnt shown any consistent principle motivating his behavior other than gathering power, in the face of stated motivations. So while he may genuinely believe what he is saying, the inherent philosophical conflicts in his consistent narcissistic actions, have poisoned any other possible position to such an extent that he has lost all moral credibility Revealed preferences never lie

tim333 3y ago
He seems to broadly pursue projects he considers helpful to humanity like sustainable energy, the multiplanetary thing and setting up OpenAI. You can interpret people's motivations in different ways but it doesn't look like just power gathering to me. I mean if he was that power hungry you'd expect him to try to monopolize AI for himself rather than make it open.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  What would it look like to monopolize AI for himself?
  - the_optimist 3y ago
    The guy literally donates to a non-profit the funds to open source the technology with a clear open and benevolent charter. And somehow you attach this to nefarious ends. Out of curiosity, what’s your converse? What do you actually think he would actually have done if he had sought to “monopolize AI for himself”? Seems to me it would most definitely not include what he did in this actual reality.
    - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      I asked simply to specify the argument criteria. You just went on a fallacy laden rant to redirect to me to define those criteria So can you clarify?
  - tim333 3y ago
    I think it would have looked a bit like what Sam is doing now - turning OpenAI to ClosedAI and having it run by himself.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  That just sounds like a messiah complex to me? To be fair, in regards to his actual companies I don’t have much of a complaint, it’s his cult of personality that I can’t stand.
  - llamaLord 3y ago
    Yeah, but demonizing the individual because of the people who follow him is a bit logically inconsistent. Granted, he doesn't fully comprehend the impact things he says and does can have when they're amplified through the mountain of people that hang off his every word. But the dudes Autistic, it shouldn't surprise anyone that intuitively understanding and anticipating the inner workings of large amorphous social-structures isn't exactly his strongest skill.
    - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      > it shouldn't surprise anyone that intuitively understanding and anticipating the inner workings of large amorphous social-structures isn't exactly his strongest skill I’m not sure if you’re trying to help or hurt the case for musk, but the description you put here tells me this is somebody that if that’s true, I never want them in any power in any organizations. You just described probably the most important skill of a leader being completely absent
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        That’s why it’s curious he managed to accomplish everything he did. Clearly something must be going right.
      - nuancebydefault 3y ago
        ... most important skill of a leader being completely absent Maybe these are very coincidal exceptions to your rule, but if it had been absent, the high volume versions of Teslas would not have existed, SpaceX would not exist and plenty more tax money would have flown to NASA. Anyways, with or without all cult culture around his person, bottom line his intentions towards humanity are pure, we should at least give him that.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > I mean if he was that power hungry you'd expect him to try to monopolize AI for himself rather than make it open Can you point me to the Github repository for Grok ? That's right it doesn't exist so the facts on the ground are that he doesn't care about openness. And if he truly cared about humanity he would give away all of the designs, code etc for Tesla, SpaceX etc.
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    Don’t forget the most important thing: the data The second Elon makes the data for all his companies open (not patents which are already “open”) I’ll start believing him
  - mft_ 3y ago
    Or just maybe —and bear with me here-- there’s a place in the universe for both for-profit entities, and entities set up with different goals? I’m no Musk apologist, but the idea that he’s inconsistent or a hypocrite because he’s expecting OpenAI to stick to their founding principles whilst also running for-profit companies in highly competitive markets, is just bizarre.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  How does manipulating MemeCoin prices or buying Twitter to bring back the n-word benefit humanity? While the broad strokes of Tesla and SpaceX might benefit humanity, he seems to have no compunction about doing screwed up things with those companies, either. Remember when he proposed putting indentured servants on Mars?
  - instagraham 3y ago
    I think it's arguable that SpaceX and Tesla represent far more of Musk's contribution than anything else. But even with X, it helps to realise, he thinks he is doing good for the world by echoing rw thought.
    - kerkeslager 3y ago
      > I think it's arguable that SpaceX and Tesla represent far more of Musk's contribution than anything else. Eh, how much of a contribution did Elon Musk actually make to those things? He got them started, but owning something isn't a contribution, frankly. There are thousands of workers involved in those companies, and some of those workers are explicitly tasked with managing Musk's free-floating ego so he doesn't screw things up. If Musk died Tesla stock would probably tank in price, but that price change would represent a loss in hype, not in the value of Tesla. The relevant engineering talent that's there, would all still be there. > But even with X, it helps to realise, he thinks he is doing good for the world by echoing rw thought. Obviously, but who cares? Intentions matter because a person who doesn't intend to cause harm can learn from their mistakes and causing harm. But Elon Musk doesn't think he's making mistakes, so his intentions don't particularly matter--he's not going to learn from his mistakes and he's just going to keep going on causing the same harms.
      - jakderrida 3y ago
        > He got them started, but owning something isn't a contribution, frankly. Just an aside, he didn't get Tesla started. Although, he's often cited as the founder by news organizations, there is zero case for that claim.
- tarsinge 3y ago
  This is proven false by many of his behaviors, like sabotaging high speed train projects with dumb car tunnels. This was a blatant misuse of his reputation at the time to make society worse for saving his business interests. Mars talks were nonsense. FSD was a lie. Tesla is a business success but in the end it’s just cars. It’s improving humanity as much as an iPhone. So no he is only after power, helping humanity is just his marketing angle for gullible geeks.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    The CHSR project never stopped. It never spent a dollar exploring Hyperloop as an alternative. The people who sabotaged CHSR are the consultants who have extracted billions of dollars with little to show for it. The sabotage was entirely financial. Blaming Musk for the failures of CHSR because he’s on the sidelines casually offering an opinion is absurd on its face. It’s the kind of unhinged ranting nonsense you’d expect from the likes of YouTube popularity whores like Thunderfoot.
  - boringg 3y ago
    I dont doubt power is part of it but i will correct your assertion about Tesla. Tesla has created the EV market - the O&G companies killed it in the 90s and Tesla made it possible otherwise right now wed still be looking at gas vehicles. And yes going to EVs will help humanity - even if its only 20% of the fleet.
    - kuboble 3y ago
      > otherwise right now wed still be looking at gas vehicles But is it really true? It feels to me that Tesla might have only sped up the EV market emergence by a couple of years and given the growth of battery's capacity/price/density over the years it was inevitable.
      - boringg 3y ago
        Sheer force of will did Tesla manage to bring around the EV market. Noone else had any interest in doing it and theres no way any of the incumbent car companies would have pursued it even if it was more viable from a battery perspective. Any other reading of that era of industry would be re-writing a narrative to diminish what Tesla really did. It is too bad he has earned so many detractors (through his own mistakes) because many of his accomplishments are exceptional.