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I knew that Patreon would bite them some day. Any time money comes into a "offensive" open source project, whoever feels they are getting hurt can make a claim

I knew that Patreon would bite them some day. Any time money comes into a "offensive" open source project, whoever feels they are getting hurt can make a claim a lot easier. Somewhat surprised they haven't yet sued Ryujinx (the other Switch emulator project) for also having a Patreon.

GabrielTFS 3y ago
It doesn't change much legally to my knowledge, given that Sony v. Connectix was about a commercial, for-profit emulator (literally sold in stores) that directly competed with a console being commercialized at the same time (the PlayStation) and Sony lost in that case, with the 9th Circuit declaring it was fair competition and legal for Connectix to emulate PlayStation games.
- MomoXenosaga 3y ago
  Keep in mind that it's not about winning or losing in court. Most people don't have the money to fight. So they give up as soon as they get a letter from a lawyer. Justice costs money.
A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
I am not part of that scene, but I am sympathetic to emulation. Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? I wonder if there are other reasons than Patreon ( money changing hands ) or there were other considerations?
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Not particularly. But it's the biggest fish so it's the biggest target.
- deelowe 3y ago
  Yuzu has amazing compatibility. I'm guessing it's getting too good for Nintendo. Their concerns with TotK are not without merit. I played it on Yuzu (on PC) because it was a much better experience than on the switch. Within a few days of the game being out, there were resolution and fps patches which made the game run much better. That said, I'm not sure how Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy. Guessing Nintendo is throwing a hail mary here and hoping they can connect the dots during discovery. I hope this doesn't spell the end of Yuzu, because I use it to play switch games that I own on my steam deck.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    > Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy But they can be legally blamed for not taking any steps to prevent it. Which means there are two avenues for Nintendo to attack this situation.
    - deelowe 3y ago
      Hrmm. Can you explain further? What sort of inaction would make them legally liable?
      - threeseed 3y ago
        If you are aware of illegal activity being committed, have preventative measures available to you and choose not to use them then you're complicit. Similar to the approach that have been used in various jurisdictions against torrent sites.
        nickthegreek 3y ago
        You realize most of grew up in the age of VHS and mp3 players right?
        boolemancer 3y ago
        What preventative measures could they have used?
        deelowe 3y ago
        Yuzu did not allow totk to be ran until after the release date. Not sure what else they could have done.
    - skeaker 3y ago
      Seems a bit silly. Could you sue Microsoft because they did nothing to prevent death threats from being written in Word or sent over Outlook?
      - 3y ago
- phone8675309 3y ago
  > Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? It's Nintendo. They sue everybody.
inputError 3y ago
[dead]
judge2020 3y ago
Making money is not a factor for fair use, but one factor is whether it’s a for-profit endeavor; you can be making money to fund an operation without doing so for profit. And even then, courts haven’t been too concerned with that aspect when other aspects are clearly met.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  You need some sort of legal entity to receive the money, with ties to some real persons. It makes some corp. going after you so much easier, compared to trying to get to 'rightbyte' or 'judge2020' for doing git commits.
  - judge2020 3y ago
    Not the best idea to try to get around lawsuits by simply staying anonymous. Nintendo can sue GitHub and you as a John Doe to compel GitHub to give up all info it has on you, like IP address access logs (which can then be used to compel your ISP to hand over their records on you).
    - crtasm 3y ago
      In that scenario, why would you have connected to Github from any IPs that link to your identity?
      - jamiek88 3y ago
        Because perfect security is impossible and you only have to leak your real IP once - especially with committing to github it would be so easy for a tool or plugin to leak that.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
        You make it sound harder than it has to be. Just put your VPN on autostart and be done with it. Also, there are other git hosting providers out there.
crtasm 3y ago
Patreon about page begins: >yuzu is a Nintendo Switch emulator capable of running many games! With yuzu, you can play such games as Pokémon Sword & Shield, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Super Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Pokémon Legends: Arceus, Fire Emblem:Three Houses, and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate — on your PC. Regardless of the legal status of an emulator, I wouldn't list game titles if I were writing that copy.
- dathinab 3y ago
  it's fully legal to state what you are compatible that titles are mainly protected by trade markes so you can freely mention and speak about them anywhere as long as you are not creating a situation where s judge might find that Nintendo customers might thing Yuzo made by Nintendo or any of the listed games are made by Yuzu or shipped by Yuzo or similar
- jzebedee 3y ago
  It's not illegal to play games that you already purchased and own. Piracy is just a convenient scapegoat to hobble emulation.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    "Piracy is just a convenient scapegoat to hobble emulation" is just a convenient scapegoat to justify piracy.
  - silent_cal 3y ago
    If you can find me one person that uses an emulator and doesn't play pirated games on it, I'll send you a dollar.
  - pierat 3y ago
    Thats not the problem. Zelda BoTW being released 7 days BEFORE being on Switch, and 60FPS, and better gameplay on a real computer is what caught Nintendo's attention. And with Yuzu and joycons, you can have EVERY game, including their online only stuff. And if you pay for those online only, piracy is the only way to guarantee that you'll keep them. They've destroyed the: NDS, Gamecube, Wii, WiiU stores/online content. They never needed to. They *chose* to.
slily 3y ago
I'm actually surprised it took so long considering they were seeking crowdfunding while openly advertising the piracy use case and raking in thousands of dollars a month (now $30,000 - wow). Patreon rewards can be construed as profit-seeking; Patreon even charges sales tax if you donate under a reward tier (they don't if you go through the no-reward custom donation flow). It's cool to hate on Nintendo for being overly litigious these days, and they deserve that reputation, but with projects where piracy is clearly the main goal, and a significant amount of money is involved, I find it hard to sympathize. Even if it's technically legal, it strikes me as parasitic behavior.
- Medox 3y ago
  hopefully a lot of that money was already put aside for upcoming lawsuits

GabrielTFS 3y ago

It doesn't change much legally to my knowledge, given that Sony v. Connectix was about a commercial, for-profit emulator (literally sold in stores) that directly competed with a console being commercialized at the same time (the PlayStation) and Sony lost in that case, with the 9th Circuit declaring it was fair competition and legal for Connectix to emulate PlayStation games.

MomoXenosaga 3y ago
Keep in mind that it's not about winning or losing in court. Most people don't have the money to fight. So they give up as soon as they get a letter from a lawyer. Justice costs money.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago

I am not part of that scene, but I am sympathetic to emulation. Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? I wonder if there are other reasons than Patreon ( money changing hands ) or there were other considerations?

johnnyanmac 3y ago
Not particularly. But it's the biggest fish so it's the biggest target.
deelowe 3y ago
Yuzu has amazing compatibility. I'm guessing it's getting too good for Nintendo. Their concerns with TotK are not without merit. I played it on Yuzu (on PC) because it was a much better experience than on the switch. Within a few days of the game being out, there were resolution and fps patches which made the game run much better. That said, I'm not sure how Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy. Guessing Nintendo is throwing a hail mary here and hoping they can connect the dots during discovery. I hope this doesn't spell the end of Yuzu, because I use it to play switch games that I own on my steam deck.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy But they can be legally blamed for not taking any steps to prevent it. Which means there are two avenues for Nintendo to attack this situation.
  - deelowe 3y ago
    Hrmm. Can you explain further? What sort of inaction would make them legally liable?
    - threeseed 3y ago
      If you are aware of illegal activity being committed, have preventative measures available to you and choose not to use them then you're complicit. Similar to the approach that have been used in various jurisdictions against torrent sites.
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        You realize most of grew up in the age of VHS and mp3 players right?
      - boolemancer 3y ago
        What preventative measures could they have used?
      - deelowe 3y ago
        Yuzu did not allow totk to be ran until after the release date. Not sure what else they could have done.
  - skeaker 3y ago
    Seems a bit silly. Could you sue Microsoft because they did nothing to prevent death threats from being written in Word or sent over Outlook?
    - 3y ago
phone8675309 3y ago
> Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? It's Nintendo. They sue everybody.

inputError 3y ago

[dead]

judge2020 3y ago

Making money is not a factor for fair use, but one factor is whether it’s a for-profit endeavor; you can be making money to fund an operation without doing so for profit. And even then, courts haven’t been too concerned with that aspect when other aspects are clearly met.

rightbyte 3y ago
You need some sort of legal entity to receive the money, with ties to some real persons. It makes some corp. going after you so much easier, compared to trying to get to 'rightbyte' or 'judge2020' for doing git commits.
- judge2020 3y ago
  Not the best idea to try to get around lawsuits by simply staying anonymous. Nintendo can sue GitHub and you as a John Doe to compel GitHub to give up all info it has on you, like IP address access logs (which can then be used to compel your ISP to hand over their records on you).
  - crtasm 3y ago
    In that scenario, why would you have connected to Github from any IPs that link to your identity?
    - jamiek88 3y ago
      Because perfect security is impossible and you only have to leak your real IP once - especially with committing to github it would be so easy for a tool or plugin to leak that.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
        You make it sound harder than it has to be. Just put your VPN on autostart and be done with it. Also, there are other git hosting providers out there.

crtasm 3y ago

Patreon about page begins: >yuzu is a Nintendo Switch emulator capable of running many games! With yuzu, you can play such games as Pokémon Sword & Shield, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Super Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Pokémon Legends: Arceus, Fire Emblem:Three Houses, and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate — on your PC. Regardless of the legal status of an emulator, I wouldn't list game titles if I were writing that copy.

dathinab 3y ago
it's fully legal to state what you are compatible that titles are mainly protected by trade markes so you can freely mention and speak about them anywhere as long as you are not creating a situation where s judge might find that Nintendo customers might thing Yuzo made by Nintendo or any of the listed games are made by Yuzu or shipped by Yuzo or similar
jzebedee 3y ago
It's not illegal to play games that you already purchased and own. Piracy is just a convenient scapegoat to hobble emulation.
- cubefox 3y ago
  "Piracy is just a convenient scapegoat to hobble emulation" is just a convenient scapegoat to justify piracy.
- silent_cal 3y ago
  If you can find me one person that uses an emulator and doesn't play pirated games on it, I'll send you a dollar.
- pierat 3y ago
  Thats not the problem. Zelda BoTW being released 7 days BEFORE being on Switch, and 60FPS, and better gameplay on a real computer is what caught Nintendo's attention. And with Yuzu and joycons, you can have EVERY game, including their online only stuff. And if you pay for those online only, piracy is the only way to guarantee that you'll keep them. They've destroyed the: NDS, Gamecube, Wii, WiiU stores/online content. They never needed to. They *chose* to.

slily 3y ago

I'm actually surprised it took so long considering they were seeking crowdfunding while openly advertising the piracy use case and raking in thousands of dollars a month (now $30,000 - wow). Patreon rewards can be construed as profit-seeking; Patreon even charges sales tax if you donate under a reward tier (they don't if you go through the no-reward custom donation flow). It's cool to hate on Nintendo for being overly litigious these days, and they deserve that reputation, but with projects where piracy is clearly the main goal, and a significant amount of money is involved, I find it hard to sympathize. Even if it's technically legal, it strikes me as parasitic behavior.

Medox 3y ago
hopefully a lot of that money was already put aside for upcoming lawsuits