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Apple's no longer a hardware company, they're a platform rent extraction company. They are directly misleading and harming their users with this move, and also

Apple's no longer a hardware company, they're a platform rent extraction company. They are directly misleading and harming their users with this move, and also with the existing dark patterns around iCloud storage.

JimDabell 3y ago
> Apple's no longer a hardware company, they're a platform rent extraction company. Apple still make the vast majority of their revenue from hardware. All of their service revenue combined is only about 20% of their revenue.
- Munksgaard 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, what is the margin on their service income vs. their hardware income?
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    It doesn’t matter. They bring in hundreds of billions of dollars per year from hardware. They are definitely still a hardware company.
- ephemeral-life 3y ago
  Revenue doesn't really matter, you should look at profits. Amazon makes most of their revenue from the website, but pretty much all of their profits come from cloud. The tech giant business model is to dominate distribution and extract profits by self preferencing. Im sure apple's services division is a good portion of their profits.
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    > Revenue doesn't really matter Grandparent is claiming that Apple aren’t a hardware company any more. Pointing out that the vast majority of their income comes from hardware is totally relevant. Apple brings in hundreds of billions from selling hardware every year. They are definitely still a hardware company.
    - the_gipsy 3y ago
      The income is irrelevant if it's just a vessel to make profits from the services. In detriment of the user, who once could trust that they were buying a device, but now are getting locked in some subscription schemes. Apple has passed the event horizon of extracting profits now.
      - JimDabell 3y ago
        > The income is irrelevant if it's just a vessel to make profits from the services. It’s not though. Apple are bringing in hundreds of billions of dollars every year from hardware. That’s not a means to an end, that is the end itself.
        the_gipsy 3y ago
        You seem to not understand the difference between income and profit.
        JimDabell 3y ago
        I do, but unless you think Apple’s hundreds of billions in hardware revenue is some kind of loss leader, it’s irrelevant. Apple are a hardware company. It’s bizarre that you are trying to argue otherwise. They make more money from selling consumer hardware than practically every other company in the world.
        disgruntledphd2 3y ago
        > Apple are a hardware company. It’s bizarre that you are trying to argue otherwise. They make more money from selling consumer hardware than practically every other company in the world. You are definitely correct in that Apple are a hardware company. However (and I think this is the point of disagreement) much of their revenue growth (and presumably profits, but that's harder to assess) comes from services, and from a stock price perspective revenue/profit growth is what matters (you're only as good as your last quarter and all that). Understanding this is key to understanding lots of Apple's business decisions recently (my favourite was destroying the business model of their competitors using ATT and then refusing to declare their own ad business ATT compliant).
- nuancebydefault 3y ago
  You cannot simply state where the revenue comes from. Apple sells hardware and services. The services promote the hardware. The hardware promotes the services. It is an eco system into which many people and companies, including companies that create software for that system, are bought. Of course Apple tries to squeeze out of this system as possible at different fronts. That's where government laws come in, to make the playing field more even.
joshstrange 3y ago
What dark patterns are you talking about w.r.t. iCloud storage?
arsenico 3y ago
Can you give an example of dark patterns around iCloud storage?

JimDabell 3y ago

> Apple's no longer a hardware company, they're a platform rent extraction company. Apple still make the vast majority of their revenue from hardware. All of their service revenue combined is only about 20% of their revenue.

Munksgaard 3y ago
Out of curiosity, what is the margin on their service income vs. their hardware income?
- JimDabell 3y ago
  It doesn’t matter. They bring in hundreds of billions of dollars per year from hardware. They are definitely still a hardware company.
ephemeral-life 3y ago
Revenue doesn't really matter, you should look at profits. Amazon makes most of their revenue from the website, but pretty much all of their profits come from cloud. The tech giant business model is to dominate distribution and extract profits by self preferencing. Im sure apple's services division is a good portion of their profits.
- JimDabell 3y ago
  > Revenue doesn't really matter Grandparent is claiming that Apple aren’t a hardware company any more. Pointing out that the vast majority of their income comes from hardware is totally relevant. Apple brings in hundreds of billions from selling hardware every year. They are definitely still a hardware company.
  - the_gipsy 3y ago
    The income is irrelevant if it's just a vessel to make profits from the services. In detriment of the user, who once could trust that they were buying a device, but now are getting locked in some subscription schemes. Apple has passed the event horizon of extracting profits now.
    - JimDabell 3y ago
      > The income is irrelevant if it's just a vessel to make profits from the services. It’s not though. Apple are bringing in hundreds of billions of dollars every year from hardware. That’s not a means to an end, that is the end itself.
      - the_gipsy 3y ago
        You seem to not understand the difference between income and profit.
        JimDabell 3y ago
        I do, but unless you think Apple’s hundreds of billions in hardware revenue is some kind of loss leader, it’s irrelevant. Apple are a hardware company. It’s bizarre that you are trying to argue otherwise. They make more money from selling consumer hardware than practically every other company in the world.
        disgruntledphd2 3y ago
        > Apple are a hardware company. It’s bizarre that you are trying to argue otherwise. They make more money from selling consumer hardware than practically every other company in the world. You are definitely correct in that Apple are a hardware company. However (and I think this is the point of disagreement) much of their revenue growth (and presumably profits, but that's harder to assess) comes from services, and from a stock price perspective revenue/profit growth is what matters (you're only as good as your last quarter and all that). Understanding this is key to understanding lots of Apple's business decisions recently (my favourite was destroying the business model of their competitors using ATT and then refusing to declare their own ad business ATT compliant).
nuancebydefault 3y ago
You cannot simply state where the revenue comes from. Apple sells hardware and services. The services promote the hardware. The hardware promotes the services. It is an eco system into which many people and companies, including companies that create software for that system, are bought. Of course Apple tries to squeeze out of this system as possible at different fronts. That's where government laws come in, to make the playing field more even.

joshstrange 3y ago

What dark patterns are you talking about w.r.t. iCloud storage?

arsenico 3y ago

Can you give an example of dark patterns around iCloud storage?