5 ms·

In Oregon, for example, where small amounts of drugs were decriminalized in 2020, police regularly hand out information cards referring people to a drug counsel

In Oregon, for example, where small amounts of drugs were decriminalized in 2020, police regularly hand out information cards referring people to a drug counseling hotline. Court data shows drug users rarely call. In Portugal, by contrast, government data shows roughly 90% of people referred to drug counseling sessions by police do turn up, at least for an initial session. Why?

lkdfjlkdfjlg 3y ago
I'm from Portugal and I've lived in the US (not Oregon). Maybe related, maybe not, but I've noticed that people in the US seem to have a chronic distrust for the police, government, or generally any authority figure. Do you agree? In Portugal if you're asked to go talk to police/gov/drug counseling/etc, you show up because that's what you're supposed to do.
- silverquiet 3y ago
  "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." That's a very famous quote by one of our presidents. Like all other American pathologies that have festered since I was a child, I assume it will get worse before it gets worse.
  - babyshake 3y ago
    Unfortunately, government is (part of) the problem, but also needs to be (part of) the solution.
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      Government is flawed, but there's no better solution, and it requires constant attention by the population or it forms political cancers. But its easier to just hate on it and get the government you deserve.
screenoridesagb 3y ago
[flagged]
- renewedrebecca 3y ago
  idk about that... Chega seems to have a lot in common with American conservatism.
wonderwonder 3y ago
In the US its not going to go well for me if I tell my boss I have to take the afternoon off to go to drug counseling.
martinald 3y ago
Terrible article. In Portugal if you don't attend the meetings you can get a sanction of some sort (or at least you used to): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Laws_and_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Laws_a... This is quite different to giving someone an information card. For what it's worth there is increasing problems in Portugal with drugs. The overdose rate is starting to really spike again, there was a good article somewhat recently about this which I can't find, but you can see the trend here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-deaths-in-portugal/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-dea...
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  > The overdose rate is starting to really spike again From 50 deaths skyrocketing up to 70 deaths. This is the kind of spike the US dreams about. The stats you link to do a pretty good job of countering the pORtIgaL iS ON dRUg FIrE narrative. When compared with the rest of Europe, Portugal has a fairly low incidence of drug deaths. So thanks for posting them.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    It's a significant spike at 40%. But my guess is that this is due to the market being flooded with ultra potent opioids right now. Decriminalisation can't really prevent that, unfortunately. Only legalisation and regulation will.
  - martinald 3y ago
    That's not my point. The point is the trend is going the wrong way recently after dropping so sharply after decriminalization. I am/was in favour of that - it is clearly a healthcare problem; not a criminal justice problem. However, I think it is still a big and growing problem regardless of where you sit on that spectrum, which has sharply been brought into focus with fentanyl and other synthetic opioids (which are themselves a byproduct of 'the war on drugs' in many ways, but the genie is out of the bottle now with them). I found the article I was meaning to find - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...
lazyasciiart 3y ago
What’s the demonstrated effectiveness of calling a hotline vs attending a group?
atlantic 3y ago
I live in southern Portugal, and over the years I've observed big differences in how natives and foreigners react to Portuguese drug laws. The native Portuguese feel that it's not ok to consume drugs, but that for those that do, the law provides a path of rehabilitation before resorting to punishment. And this is in fact the intention behind the decriminalization of drug consumption. On the other hand, younger foreigners often seem to take the laws as a license to consume, some becoming unable to work and spending their days smoking pot. And their older counterparts similarly fall into alcoholism, wine and beer being very cheap here. My point is that Portuguese laws are made for Portuguese people, who tend to do things in moderation. There is no universal solution, and no guarantee that the Portuguese model would work anywhere else.

lkdfjlkdfjlg 3y ago

I'm from Portugal and I've lived in the US (not Oregon). Maybe related, maybe not, but I've noticed that people in the US seem to have a chronic distrust for the police, government, or generally any authority figure. Do you agree? In Portugal if you're asked to go talk to police/gov/drug counseling/etc, you show up because that's what you're supposed to do.

silverquiet 3y ago
"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." That's a very famous quote by one of our presidents. Like all other American pathologies that have festered since I was a child, I assume it will get worse before it gets worse.
- babyshake 3y ago
  Unfortunately, government is (part of) the problem, but also needs to be (part of) the solution.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    Government is flawed, but there's no better solution, and it requires constant attention by the population or it forms political cancers. But its easier to just hate on it and get the government you deserve.

screenoridesagb 3y ago

[flagged]

renewedrebecca 3y ago
idk about that... Chega seems to have a lot in common with American conservatism.

wonderwonder 3y ago

In the US its not going to go well for me if I tell my boss I have to take the afternoon off to go to drug counseling.

martinald 3y ago

Terrible article. In Portugal if you don't attend the meetings you can get a sanction of some sort (or at least you used to): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Laws_and_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Laws_a... This is quite different to giving someone an information card. For what it's worth there is increasing problems in Portugal with drugs. The overdose rate is starting to really spike again, there was a good article somewhat recently about this which I can't find, but you can see the trend here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-deaths-in-portugal/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-dea...

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> The overdose rate is starting to really spike again From 50 deaths skyrocketing up to 70 deaths. This is the kind of spike the US dreams about. The stats you link to do a pretty good job of countering the pORtIgaL iS ON dRUg FIrE narrative. When compared with the rest of Europe, Portugal has a fairly low incidence of drug deaths. So thanks for posting them.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  It's a significant spike at 40%. But my guess is that this is due to the market being flooded with ultra potent opioids right now. Decriminalisation can't really prevent that, unfortunately. Only legalisation and regulation will.
- martinald 3y ago
  That's not my point. The point is the trend is going the wrong way recently after dropping so sharply after decriminalization. I am/was in favour of that - it is clearly a healthcare problem; not a criminal justice problem. However, I think it is still a big and growing problem regardless of where you sit on that spectrum, which has sharply been brought into focus with fentanyl and other synthetic opioids (which are themselves a byproduct of 'the war on drugs' in many ways, but the genie is out of the bottle now with them). I found the article I was meaning to find - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...

lazyasciiart 3y ago

What’s the demonstrated effectiveness of calling a hotline vs attending a group?

atlantic 3y ago

I live in southern Portugal, and over the years I've observed big differences in how natives and foreigners react to Portuguese drug laws. The native Portuguese feel that it's not ok to consume drugs, but that for those that do, the law provides a path of rehabilitation before resorting to punishment. And this is in fact the intention behind the decriminalization of drug consumption. On the other hand, younger foreigners often seem to take the laws as a license to consume, some becoming unable to work and spending their days smoking pot. And their older counterparts similarly fall into alcoholism, wine and beer being very cheap here. My point is that Portuguese laws are made for Portuguese people, who tend to do things in moderation. There is no universal solution, and no guarantee that the Portuguese model would work anywhere else.