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Mass Retraction of unethical Chinese Forensic Genetics Papers
- downvotetruth 3y agohttps://archive.is/0oJG7 https://archive.is/0oJG7
- olliej 3y agocheers
- glerk 3y agoWhat does a “retraction” mean in this field? Are the results of these papers considered incorrect?
- blacksqr 3y agoReading the linked article reveals that incorrectness was not the issue, but the unethical way that the genetic samples in the study were obtained.
- tomohelix 3y agoIt means the publisher no longer host/publish the papers. This can be done at the request of the author or by the publisher in the case of a controversy. In this case, it seems there is no particular issues with the content of the paper, just that the way the data was collected was not appropriate. A case can be made about the narrow set of data (focused on minority groups) and thus how representative the data is to whatever claims made in the paper. But that require a deeper read into the papers themselves and has nothing to do with the main complain, i.e. ethical concerns.
- DriftRegion 3y agoIf the publisher's aim in doing this is to make an ethical statement this seems like a heavy-handed and ineffective way. Let the information be published, make a statement and let the audience decide.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoLet the journal decide, it's their journal and their hosting costs and their ethical guidelines for papers they publish. The audience can get it from anywhere else.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- infoseek12 3y agoIt will be interesting if a lot of research gets published in Chinese journals and not the West. If this happens I wonder if Western researchers will get their information from Chinese journals or lag a bit behind Chinese researchers on the answers to these questions.
- worik 3y agoMēh! Let the Chinese authorities burden themselves with questions of DNA markers and ethnic groups Eugenics has not done anyone any good, and when used as a means of controlling populations it goes to very dark places If the whole stack is not kept ethical, it is not ethical at all. If not ethical then it tends to evil
- xdennis 3y ago> Eugenics has not done anyone any good It's reduced genetic defects in the population. For example in many countries you can abort babies with Down syndrome up to the time of birth.
- aydyn 3y ago> If the whole stack is not kept ethical, it is not ethical at all. This is such a naive, borderline illiterate take. How much of modern human biological knowledge is built upon a foundation of unethical practices?
- kibwen 3y agoFrom a practical (rather than moral) perspective, the reason that scientific ethics are a thing in the first place is so that the public does not sour on scientific endeavors and view them as illegitimate. If you eschew ethics, then, like Dr. Frankenstein, eventually you will have the public beating down your door with torches and pitchforks, regardless of the results you achieve. Which is to say, if you care about advancing science in the long term rather than merely in the short term, you must care about ethics. Accusing others of naivete here is a bad look.
- georgeburdell 3y agoSimilar controversy surrounds whether Nazi medical research may be cited. I (ironically) cite no sources, but I believe the consensus is that they may be cited if a) they are methodologically sound and b) other studies cannot serve as a substitute. I am personally of the opinion that “information wants to be free” and ethics is not a reason to ignore methodologically-sound, published science. Punish the researchers, perhaps
- g-b-r 3y agoThis is a way to punish the researchers If the consequences of these behaviors are negligible others will be encouraged to do it as well
- cvalka 3y agoIf the results and reasoning are sound, it's absolutely bonkers not to cite the source. This is a not criminal trial and the exclusionary rule should not apply here.
- dgacmu 3y agoThis does punish the researchers - no citations, no publication to list in their cv. It hits them where they almost certainly care a lot. Absent cooperation from their home institution, the journals don't have much other leverage.
- nicklecompte 3y agoWithout commenting on the veracity of these specific allegations (it seems there is some controversy): The root cause of the replication crisis is that academics are given a tacit assumption of trust: if you read a peer-reviewed paper, you should be able to trust the conclusions without redoing all the experiments/analysis yourself. Sadly this trust is often not deserved. As a matter of editorial policy, researchers who are unethical in collecting samples shouldn’t be given the benefit of the doubt in analyzing those samples. Instead of carefully auditing their tainted results, it’s better to redo the experiment from scratch with a more trustworthy team.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- aragonite 3y agoThe submitted title is misleading. There's no allegation much less any definitive finding of unethical collection: the justification was that the "[consent] documentation was not sufficiently detailed to resolve the concerns raised". (Obviously they were deemed sufficient at the time of initial publication). One wonders what detail level would suffice in the current political climate, especially to address the concern of someone who believes that the mere fact of having some co-authors affiliated with public security authorities "voids any notion of free informed consent".[1] The actions of individuals like Moreau also have significant unintended consequences such destroying the careers of junior academics such as Halimureti Simayijiang, who is Uyghur & even got his PhD from University of Copenhagen but who was unfortunate enough to have developed a research interest in forensic genetics. Basically no research Halimureti does will have any chance of being published in a Western journal given the campaign of folks like Moreau.[3] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/china-retracts-papers-molecular-genetics-genomic-medicine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/china-retracts... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/29/academic-paper-uyghur-genetic-data-retracted-ethical-concerns https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/29/academic-paper... http://www.fyagctu.com/news/?web_28.html http://www.fyagctu.com/news/?web_28.html [3] (from the guardian piece cited) In an email to Irene Tracey, the vice-chancellor of Oxford University, which was seen by the Guardian, Moreau said: “The standard for informed consent is free informed consent,” which he argues is impossible in the context of Xinjiang.
- rbride 3y ago[flagged]
- aragonite 3y agoI mean it's not outrageous, much less proof of guilt, for forensics researchers to be affiliated with "police colleges". The use of genetic forensics in police work is a global practice and was key in solving major cases like the Golden State Killer and the Boston Strangler. (You also have to take into account the fact that in China universities named after some line of work are very much the norm (you have well-known generalist universities whose names reference "postal service" or "transportation" or "finance" or "broadcasting" which to Western ears sound very odd).) > Maybe they shouldn't take money from local enforcement groups that exist to oppress the group being studied. The bar ain't high As the Guardian quote in my comment makes clear, Moreau thinks informed consent is literally impossible in Xinjiang, so the bar is in fact impossibly high.
- goodSteveramos 3y agoDoes anyone have a detailed explanation of how these studies were unethical? Its all quite vague.
- bnprks 3y agoI think this 2019 article from the NY Times gives a reasonable introduction [1]. In short, the concern is that China is developing genetic databases as part of its state surveillance and repression of the Uighur people in Xinjiang. So the idea might be, for example, that if the Chinese state can obtain the DNA of a dissident they can identify family members to threaten or harass. The research in question is directly related to finding and cataloging genetic markers that could be used in such a surveillance database. And with no way to credibly verify that the genetic samples were given with full consent, it seems probable that the studies themselves were part of this project to create an Orwellian surveillance state for certain minorities in China. Needless to say, western journals would prefer to not be accomplices to these human rights abuses, hence the retractions. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/business/china-xinjiang-uighur-dna-thermo-fisher.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/business/china-xinjiang-u...
- goodSteveramos 3y ago>no way to credibly verify that the genetic samples were given with full consent Is there evidence to believe these specific tests did not have consent or are the journals saying that the fact that these studies were done in China is reason enough to refuse to publish any genetics papers from China? Also is there specific reason to believe these databases have been misused or is that simply a concern that has been raised? My apologies if you don’t have all the answers the reporting seems scant on details.
- bnprks 3y agoI think it is known that the Chinese state is making genetic databases of these minority populations and is taking genetic samples without consent. It's also known that the Chinese state is committing human rights violations against these minorities. I have not personally read reporting about specific ways the genetic samples have been used in fact, though. In a US lab, for instance, I would expect that a similar genetic study would have hard-copy signed consent forms from every participant in the study with 3-6 year retention requirements, and this could be audited by their institution's IRB if there were concerns. (Ultimately I think there is an accountability chain all the way to the US federal government, though I'm not familiar with how the institutional IRBs are monitored). I don't know what equivalent institutions might exist in China, and whether the journals got/requested any verification of consents from them. Though for papers like these where co-authors have affiliations with police departments or academies, I'm not sure how trustworthy it would be even if the police did claim they had evidence of consent for the data in these papers. (Given that Chinese police are known to be collecting genetic samples without consent in some documented cases.)