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This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. All vehicles are insecure. I can hook a tow truck to almost any vehicle, including an 80,000 lbs

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. All vehicles are insecure. I can hook a tow truck to almost any vehicle, including an 80,000 lbs tractor trailer and drive off with it. That'd actually attract less attention that outright hotwiring a vehicle. The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
officeplant 3y ago
This is about Canada, but rant away.
merpnderp 3y ago
We already identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals, we just don't hand out custodial sentences. Being in jail/prison sucks and is a good incentive to not steal cars. Plus it is impossible to steal cars while locked up.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  > We already identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals... We've given up on that part in many instances.
eli 3y ago
These cars are being sold with defective security measures. They don't work the way manufactures promise or customers expect. It shouldn't be any different than a car sold with headlights that are too dim
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  But that is my point. All security measures are defective. I can always tie a chain to your vehicle and leave with it. Security measures deter criminals, they can never stop them. Only the government can do that. The government is not obliged to do that in the US. Thus, no one can stop criminals To metaphorically put it: no matter how good your 2FA is, I can always get around it if I can torture you or threaten your loved ones.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    I think there is a meaningful and useful difference between "defective" and "not comprehensive".
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    This is a different discussion. There doesn't seem to have been any abuse of a loved one before the perps drove off in the cars. The cars weren't sold as "unstealable". The whole point is that what was sold (some kind of key security) was half-assedly implemented.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      You can extrapolate this argument to almost anything about a vehicle in North America. I've been working on them for decades. The way manufacturers make money is by half-assing things. Where a chain should be used, a belt is used. Where a 10 cent switch should be used, a touchscreen replaces it. Where a shifter should be, some knob is used to replace which actually kills a guy because he didn't realize his SUV was in gear. I had to replace part of the engine on my personal truck recently because it was made of plastic and obviously failed. The replacement parts were metal because all I did was order the previous generations part number which works perfectly fine but costs more. What you call "half assed" is what everyone in the industry calls a profit margin.
      - riskable 3y ago
        You are so wrong it's unreal! Quality switches suitable for use in a vehicle don't cost $0.10, they cost $0.01! -at the volumes they'd be purchased for auto manufacturing.
        HPsquared 3y ago
        You don't need just the switch. It needs a housing, a cap, lighting, wiring, and connectors at the other end of the wire too. And all this needs to be designed in a "waterfall" style, with long lead times. Overall, a virtual button is going to be cheaper to engineer and manufacture than a hardware button. It's not big, overall, but these small savings accumulate over the whole vehicle.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Yet they're probably more secure than just a regular car that's on the older side.
ngetchell 3y ago
What do you mean they are not obligated?
- hackernewds 3y ago
  The govt actively chooses which individuals violating the law to prosecute and not especially in progressive cities like San Francisco and Seattle, based on a set of their own principles vs the constitution written by their elected representatives.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
    Ah great, I'll simply caucus with That Other Party and lose my personal rights as a queer atheist. They'll also deport all my coworkers. Why didn't I think of that? Love it.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      > Ah great, I'll simply caucus with That Other Party and lose my personal rights as a queer atheist. You're creating a false dichotomy. We could prosecute criminals and not take initiative to remove rights for queer atheists. These are in no way related so it's weird to lump them in. Besides, "That Other Other Party" who presumably doesn't want to take personal rights from queer atheists could simply prosecute the criminals themselves. If you like "That Other Other Party" overall and want to see criminals prosecuted, that's what you would pursue. But if you don't pursue that it's pretty clear you just don't want to see criminals prosecuted.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  At least in the US the role and responsibilities of the police is to protect the government. They may protect the citizens, but they can never be held liable for a failure to protect the citizens. You'll have to ask a Canadian about the specifics of the various provinces.
whimsicalism 3y ago
> Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. Just a talking point - and the US has one of the most extensive criminal justice apparatuses of any country. This article is about Canada - which has largely failed to control its organized crime+ports situation, unlike authorities in the US where most organized crime is organized from abroad and so difficult to disrupt but also less effective.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand - you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      > 1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand We can't expect to solve the car crime problem by only beefing up car security. It also requires holding people accountable for their behavior. Besides, what a ridiculous thing to say. This is the discussion at hand, partially by virtue of you talking about it. > you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. So you agree they are clearly in the wrong with this one case then? Besides, this case is a result of policy set by the largest city in the country. We can look at policies in other cities like LA and SF. They do nothing to dispel the fact that the policies on crime are very weak. > 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. They were released in 4 hours then fled the city > 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world. And no one is criticizing that it exists. The judgment is just extremely poor sometimes. Wouldn't you agree the judgment was poor in this case? Do you think it was the right decision to release them after 4 hours?
Chris2048 3y ago
but then you'd need a tow truck.. Doesn't seem a lot simpler, anyone could snap a pic of your registration plate. I think towing a vehicle does attract a fair amount of attention, especially if there is no obvious reason for it. Also, they don't need to steal the car - if they can freely open it can can just steal anything inside.
- bluGill 3y ago
  A tow truck attracts attention - there will be a dozen witnesses who watch you do everything - not one will think to remember any details that can identify you. Just replace the vinyl sticker on the door with your false company name on after each job and you are safe from being caught.
  - axus 3y ago
    A tow truck costs more than a tablet. The guys and the tablets performing the theft are disposable, tow truck is not. Rapid scanning of export shipping containers with AI processing to detect the contents might help curb the demand for the stolen cars.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      True, but you can find them used once in a while for cheap enough. It only takes a few stolen cars to pay off the tow truck (you want to be legal here as this is easy to track), and then each one is pure profit.
  - mywittyname 3y ago
    This actually happened in my neighborhood yesterday and two people came out to talk to the driver. The moment I saw them pull up I even double checked that my garage door was closed. We came out before the person who called the tow truck did. Car thefts have made people paranoid and vigilant.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  No idea where you are at but I wouldn't think twice about someone towing a car. If someone was hotwiring a neighbor's vehicle I think I'd definitely at least start videoing them as a deterrent.
bongodongobob 3y ago
The US has the most prisoners per capita, but go on. "They aren't doing enough about car hackers! Car hackers are just running free and the gubmint won't stop them!" Ridiculous.
- philwelch 3y ago
  That’s actually not true anymore. El Salvador has the most prisoners per capita now. They also have a lower murder rate than the US. The lowest murder rate in the entire Western Hemisphere, actually. Previously they had the highest murder rate in the world. Mass incarceration works. It doesn’t work in the US because we didn’t do enough of it.
  - rjmunro 3y ago
    Download the CSVs of https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-unodc https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-unodc and https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prison-population-rate https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prison-population-rate Plot them on a graph. There is basically no correlation.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      Different countries have different base rates of criminality. Japan, for instance, has very few criminals but incarcerates almost all of them. The US has more criminals so the US incarcerates more people, but it probably doesn't incarcerate the same proportion of criminals that Japan does.
  - Draiken 3y ago
    Works for who? The corporations profiting from slave prison labor? If we at least arrested the corrupt white collar criminals that never get punished, then we could look at this as something more than an uninformed extreme measure. Imagine if wage theft wasn't merely a fine? Imagine if corruption was actually prosecuted? Then we can talk! /s
    - 3y ago
threetonesun 3y ago
Sure pros will always steal cars that way, but you never want to end up with a vehicle that any bored person can steal for the lulz. Late 90s - Early 2000 Honda/Acura owners went through this. Even though they were very good cars they became undesirable because you could hardly park them anywhere without coming back to missing parts.
nonethewiser 3y ago
> The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. I think it will take a multi-pronged approach that includes exactly this. Individuals must be held responsible for their actions. Car security also needs to be beefed up though. It's clearly not good enough.
- philwelch 3y ago
  Korean car brands like Hyundai and Kia are commonly criticized for being too easy to steal. Yet somehow the rate of car theft in South Korea, where these companies have a much higher market share, is a fraction of that in the United States.
  - mywittyname 3y ago
    Because the SK versions of KIA/Hyundais have anti-theft measures. It's only USDM cars where they cut corners to remove the immobilizers.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      Is that true, or is it not a problem in South Korea because they have less crime?
  - jonathanlydall 3y ago
    My understanding of the situation is that their cars for the US market lacked immobilisers or something, while in the rest of the world this was not the case.
MeImCounting 3y ago
This is like saying "bank transactions have been getting MITMed and peoples money has been stolen. All crypto protocols are insecure I can hook a supercomputer up to any transaction and decrypt it given enough time The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals" Do you see why this is not a coherent idea? Aside from the fact that locking people in cages is disgusting and wrong and something no reasonable adult should do to another person the entire premise of this argument is nonsensical and a little weird when you actually think about it.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
> This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. Ha ha, what are your erudite bookmarks? I read dumber things just over coffee this morning.
mywittyname 3y ago
> That'd actually attract less attention that outright hotwiring a vehicle. Disagree. Depending on the approach taken, the theft can look like a legitimate owner getting into a car. Even the break the window and reprogram a key via ODBII port technique takes about a minute to complete. Plenty of people have posted videos of their cars being stolen (I'm part of several Camaro communities, which are big theft targets) via this technique and it's crazy how fast the thieves are. Tow trucks attract a shitload of attention. My neighbor had her car towed yesterday and two neighbors came out to check on it.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Yeah, I broke into my own car recently using a coat hanger, nobody cared.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    In college a friend of a friend locked themselves out of a car. A nearby police officer loaned him some tools to break the window of the car so he could get home that night.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    My sister lost the key for her bike lock while her bike was locked. I pulled up with a grinder and destroyed the lock in a busy downtown district in the middle of the day, loaded the bike into my car, and nobody said a thing. I was actually a little shocked since I had come ready with the receipt for the bike and everything.
- RandallBrown 3y ago
  I've seen cars towed in less than 30 seconds from parallel parking spots. Even if it took longer, it still looks more legitimate to bystanders than a broken window.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  https://youtube.com/shorts/WLCxzvKJniQ?si=RVf9vuAmsA2NiGFZ https://youtube.com/shorts/WLCxzvKJniQ?si=RVf9vuAmsA2NiGFZ
janalsncm 3y ago
We can ban theft, ban/regulate theft facilitation devices, and also mandate that cars have some minimum level of security. > I can hook a tow truck to almost any vehicle If there was a spree of that happening, you can bet your next paycheck there would be laws about it. Laws aren’t about a philosophical distinction between flipper zeros and tow trucks, they’re practical tools for law enforcement.
what-the-grump 3y ago
Right, so let me get a tow truck, register it to a location, get caught going down the road with it on cameras... etc. Or buy a 200-dollar device and walk up to a car in a hoody and steal it?
hot_gril 3y ago
Was gonna say something like this. In software security land, security measures are cleaner and hacking tools are impossible to regulate, so it's really on the creators to make things secure up to a point. The real world is different. Even the software security philosophy kinda stops at DDoS.
ActorNightly 3y ago
>The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. The solution is to pass laws that allow citizens to defend property with the same force that they can defend their own and others bodies from injury. It should be pretty clear that humans are pretty good optimizers. Its never about if the activity is legal or not, its about what is the reward is, vs what the actual risk is (i.e, getting arrested is not really a risk when your source of income doesn't depend on your criminal history) The only way to stop humans from doing said behavior is increase the risk of doing it. If laws were passed that allowed citizens to freely own guns, and use those guns to defend themselves and property, you would see massive decrease in property crime. And yes, you do get an increase in shootings. Statistically though, the shootings happen more in alteractions where tempers flare rather than home invasions or robbery situations. Suicides still preside overwhelmingly as the leading cause of gun deaths. Overall, from a personal harm perspective (amount of harm * risk), its much safer if you have loose gun/self defense laws. Unless of course you are so well off that you can just replace stole stuff indefinitely, but again, the humans taking your stuff will optimize for that over time as well.
KTibow 3y ago
In other terms: There's 3 ways to assign blame, to the maker of the tool, to the user of the tool, and to the target of the tool. I think we can all agree that if the tool isn't designed to cause trouble we shouldn't blame the maker. I think blaming the target really depends on the situation - for example, when HP themselves decided to make ink cartridges use a chip and didn't sufficiently isolate the chip causing a security vulnerability, that's on HP. If the manufacturer could easily prevent or patch the vulnerability, that's on them. Tow trucks are something the manufacturer can't prevent. But regardless, if you use it for malice I agree that you're the one who should be liable.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

officeplant 3y ago

This is about Canada, but rant away.

merpnderp 3y ago

We already identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals, we just don't hand out custodial sentences. Being in jail/prison sucks and is a good incentive to not steal cars. Plus it is impossible to steal cars while locked up.

nemo44x 3y ago
> We already identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals... We've given up on that part in many instances.

eli 3y ago

These cars are being sold with defective security measures. They don't work the way manufactures promise or customers expect. It shouldn't be any different than a car sold with headlights that are too dim

sidewndr46 3y ago
But that is my point. All security measures are defective. I can always tie a chain to your vehicle and leave with it. Security measures deter criminals, they can never stop them. Only the government can do that. The government is not obliged to do that in the US. Thus, no one can stop criminals To metaphorically put it: no matter how good your 2FA is, I can always get around it if I can torture you or threaten your loved ones.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  I think there is a meaningful and useful difference between "defective" and "not comprehensive".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  This is a different discussion. There doesn't seem to have been any abuse of a loved one before the perps drove off in the cars. The cars weren't sold as "unstealable". The whole point is that what was sold (some kind of key security) was half-assedly implemented.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    You can extrapolate this argument to almost anything about a vehicle in North America. I've been working on them for decades. The way manufacturers make money is by half-assing things. Where a chain should be used, a belt is used. Where a 10 cent switch should be used, a touchscreen replaces it. Where a shifter should be, some knob is used to replace which actually kills a guy because he didn't realize his SUV was in gear. I had to replace part of the engine on my personal truck recently because it was made of plastic and obviously failed. The replacement parts were metal because all I did was order the previous generations part number which works perfectly fine but costs more. What you call "half assed" is what everyone in the industry calls a profit margin.
    - riskable 3y ago
      You are so wrong it's unreal! Quality switches suitable for use in a vehicle don't cost $0.10, they cost $0.01! -at the volumes they'd be purchased for auto manufacturing.
      - HPsquared 3y ago
        You don't need just the switch. It needs a housing, a cap, lighting, wiring, and connectors at the other end of the wire too. And all this needs to be designed in a "waterfall" style, with long lead times. Overall, a virtual button is going to be cheaper to engineer and manufacture than a hardware button. It's not big, overall, but these small savings accumulate over the whole vehicle.
hot_gril 3y ago
Yet they're probably more secure than just a regular car that's on the older side.

ngetchell 3y ago

What do you mean they are not obligated?

hackernewds 3y ago
The govt actively chooses which individuals violating the law to prosecute and not especially in progressive cities like San Francisco and Seattle, based on a set of their own principles vs the constitution written by their elected representatives.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
  Ah great, I'll simply caucus with That Other Party and lose my personal rights as a queer atheist. They'll also deport all my coworkers. Why didn't I think of that? Love it.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > Ah great, I'll simply caucus with That Other Party and lose my personal rights as a queer atheist. You're creating a false dichotomy. We could prosecute criminals and not take initiative to remove rights for queer atheists. These are in no way related so it's weird to lump them in. Besides, "That Other Other Party" who presumably doesn't want to take personal rights from queer atheists could simply prosecute the criminals themselves. If you like "That Other Other Party" overall and want to see criminals prosecuted, that's what you would pursue. But if you don't pursue that it's pretty clear you just don't want to see criminals prosecuted.
sidewndr46 3y ago
At least in the US the role and responsibilities of the police is to protect the government. They may protect the citizens, but they can never be held liable for a failure to protect the citizens. You'll have to ask a Canadian about the specifics of the various provinces.

whimsicalism 3y ago

> Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. Just a talking point - and the US has one of the most extensive criminal justice apparatuses of any country. This article is about Canada - which has largely failed to control its organized crime+ports situation, unlike authorities in the US where most organized crime is organized from abroad and so difficult to disrupt but also less effective.

nonethewiser 3y ago
[flagged]
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand - you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > 1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand We can't expect to solve the car crime problem by only beefing up car security. It also requires holding people accountable for their behavior. Besides, what a ridiculous thing to say. This is the discussion at hand, partially by virtue of you talking about it. > you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million. So you agree they are clearly in the wrong with this one case then? Besides, this case is a result of policy set by the largest city in the country. We can look at policies in other cities like LA and SF. They do nothing to dispel the fact that the policies on crime are very weak. > 2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’. They were released in 4 hours then fled the city > 3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world. And no one is criticizing that it exists. The judgment is just extremely poor sometimes. Wouldn't you agree the judgment was poor in this case? Do you think it was the right decision to release them after 4 hours?

Chris2048 3y ago

but then you'd need a tow truck.. Doesn't seem a lot simpler, anyone could snap a pic of your registration plate. I think towing a vehicle does attract a fair amount of attention, especially if there is no obvious reason for it. Also, they don't need to steal the car - if they can freely open it can can just steal anything inside.

bluGill 3y ago
A tow truck attracts attention - there will be a dozen witnesses who watch you do everything - not one will think to remember any details that can identify you. Just replace the vinyl sticker on the door with your false company name on after each job and you are safe from being caught.
- axus 3y ago
  A tow truck costs more than a tablet. The guys and the tablets performing the theft are disposable, tow truck is not. Rapid scanning of export shipping containers with AI processing to detect the contents might help curb the demand for the stolen cars.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    True, but you can find them used once in a while for cheap enough. It only takes a few stolen cars to pay off the tow truck (you want to be legal here as this is easy to track), and then each one is pure profit.
- mywittyname 3y ago
  This actually happened in my neighborhood yesterday and two people came out to talk to the driver. The moment I saw them pull up I even double checked that my garage door was closed. We came out before the person who called the tow truck did. Car thefts have made people paranoid and vigilant.
sidewndr46 3y ago
No idea where you are at but I wouldn't think twice about someone towing a car. If someone was hotwiring a neighbor's vehicle I think I'd definitely at least start videoing them as a deterrent.

bongodongobob 3y ago

The US has the most prisoners per capita, but go on. "They aren't doing enough about car hackers! Car hackers are just running free and the gubmint won't stop them!" Ridiculous.

philwelch 3y ago
That’s actually not true anymore. El Salvador has the most prisoners per capita now. They also have a lower murder rate than the US. The lowest murder rate in the entire Western Hemisphere, actually. Previously they had the highest murder rate in the world. Mass incarceration works. It doesn’t work in the US because we didn’t do enough of it.
- rjmunro 3y ago
  Download the CSVs of https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-unodc https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rate-unodc and https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prison-population-rate https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prison-population-rate Plot them on a graph. There is basically no correlation.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    Different countries have different base rates of criminality. Japan, for instance, has very few criminals but incarcerates almost all of them. The US has more criminals so the US incarcerates more people, but it probably doesn't incarcerate the same proportion of criminals that Japan does.
- Draiken 3y ago
  Works for who? The corporations profiting from slave prison labor? If we at least arrested the corrupt white collar criminals that never get punished, then we could look at this as something more than an uninformed extreme measure. Imagine if wage theft wasn't merely a fine? Imagine if corruption was actually prosecuted? Then we can talk! /s
  - 3y ago

threetonesun 3y ago

Sure pros will always steal cars that way, but you never want to end up with a vehicle that any bored person can steal for the lulz. Late 90s - Early 2000 Honda/Acura owners went through this. Even though they were very good cars they became undesirable because you could hardly park them anywhere without coming back to missing parts.

nonethewiser 3y ago

> The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. I think it will take a multi-pronged approach that includes exactly this. Individuals must be held responsible for their actions. Car security also needs to be beefed up though. It's clearly not good enough.

philwelch 3y ago
Korean car brands like Hyundai and Kia are commonly criticized for being too easy to steal. Yet somehow the rate of car theft in South Korea, where these companies have a much higher market share, is a fraction of that in the United States.
- mywittyname 3y ago
  Because the SK versions of KIA/Hyundais have anti-theft measures. It's only USDM cars where they cut corners to remove the immobilizers.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    Is that true, or is it not a problem in South Korea because they have less crime?
- jonathanlydall 3y ago
  My understanding of the situation is that their cars for the US market lacked immobilisers or something, while in the rest of the world this was not the case.

MeImCounting 3y ago

This is like saying "bank transactions have been getting MITMed and peoples money has been stolen. All crypto protocols are insecure I can hook a supercomputer up to any transaction and decrypt it given enough time The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals" Do you see why this is not a coherent idea? Aside from the fact that locking people in cages is disgusting and wrong and something no reasonable adult should do to another person the entire premise of this argument is nonsensical and a little weird when you actually think about it.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

> This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. Ha ha, what are your erudite bookmarks? I read dumber things just over coffee this morning.

mywittyname 3y ago

> That'd actually attract less attention that outright hotwiring a vehicle. Disagree. Depending on the approach taken, the theft can look like a legitimate owner getting into a car. Even the break the window and reprogram a key via ODBII port technique takes about a minute to complete. Plenty of people have posted videos of their cars being stolen (I'm part of several Camaro communities, which are big theft targets) via this technique and it's crazy how fast the thieves are. Tow trucks attract a shitload of attention. My neighbor had her car towed yesterday and two neighbors came out to check on it.

hot_gril 3y ago
Yeah, I broke into my own car recently using a coat hanger, nobody cared.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  In college a friend of a friend locked themselves out of a car. A nearby police officer loaned him some tools to break the window of the car so he could get home that night.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  My sister lost the key for her bike lock while her bike was locked. I pulled up with a grinder and destroyed the lock in a busy downtown district in the middle of the day, loaded the bike into my car, and nobody said a thing. I was actually a little shocked since I had come ready with the receipt for the bike and everything.
RandallBrown 3y ago
I've seen cars towed in less than 30 seconds from parallel parking spots. Even if it took longer, it still looks more legitimate to bystanders than a broken window.
IshKebab 3y ago
https://youtube.com/shorts/WLCxzvKJniQ?si=RVf9vuAmsA2NiGFZ https://youtube.com/shorts/WLCxzvKJniQ?si=RVf9vuAmsA2NiGFZ

janalsncm 3y ago

We can ban theft, ban/regulate theft facilitation devices, and also mandate that cars have some minimum level of security. > I can hook a tow truck to almost any vehicle If there was a spree of that happening, you can bet your next paycheck there would be laws about it. Laws aren’t about a philosophical distinction between flipper zeros and tow trucks, they’re practical tools for law enforcement.

what-the-grump 3y ago

Right, so let me get a tow truck, register it to a location, get caught going down the road with it on cameras... etc. Or buy a 200-dollar device and walk up to a car in a hoody and steal it?

hot_gril 3y ago

Was gonna say something like this. In software security land, security measures are cleaner and hacking tools are impossible to regulate, so it's really on the creators to make things secure up to a point. The real world is different. Even the software security philosophy kinda stops at DDoS.

ActorNightly 3y ago

>The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. The solution is to pass laws that allow citizens to defend property with the same force that they can defend their own and others bodies from injury. It should be pretty clear that humans are pretty good optimizers. Its never about if the activity is legal or not, its about what is the reward is, vs what the actual risk is (i.e, getting arrested is not really a risk when your source of income doesn't depend on your criminal history) The only way to stop humans from doing said behavior is increase the risk of doing it. If laws were passed that allowed citizens to freely own guns, and use those guns to defend themselves and property, you would see massive decrease in property crime. And yes, you do get an increase in shootings. Statistically though, the shootings happen more in alteractions where tempers flare rather than home invasions or robbery situations. Suicides still preside overwhelmingly as the leading cause of gun deaths. Overall, from a personal harm perspective (amount of harm * risk), its much safer if you have loose gun/self defense laws. Unless of course you are so well off that you can just replace stole stuff indefinitely, but again, the humans taking your stuff will optimize for that over time as well.

KTibow 3y ago

In other terms: There's 3 ways to assign blame, to the maker of the tool, to the user of the tool, and to the target of the tool. I think we can all agree that if the tool isn't designed to cause trouble we shouldn't blame the maker. I think blaming the target really depends on the situation - for example, when HP themselves decided to make ink cartridges use a chip and didn't sufficiently isolate the chip causing a security vulnerability, that's on HP. If the manufacturer could easily prevent or patch the vulnerability, that's on them. Tow trucks are something the manufacturer can't prevent. But regardless, if you use it for malice I agree that you're the one who should be liable.