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Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

79 points by knr2345 3y ago

Hello HN! I'm excited to introduce Swift Mail, a native macOS email client purpose-built for the JMAP mail standard. Primarily constructed with SwiftUI and occasional AppKit elements, Swift Mail combines the speed and efficiency of a modern mail standard with desktop-centric features such as system notifications, keyboard shortcuts, quick look, multiple windows, state restoration, dark mode, and more. Swift Mail distinguishes itself from other email clients with its steadfast commitment to the JMAP standard over the traditional IMAP implementation, facilitating seamless alignment with modern mail features. It supports various innovative Fastmail features, such as multiple sending identities, the ability to send or reply on-the-fly from wildcard (*) aliases, and the ability to swiftly transition between (true) label and folder organization schemes. Swift Mail prioritizes user privacy and does not collect any user data or function through intermediary servers. Instead, it directly connects to the JMAP server with the user's provided account credentials, processing and storing all data locally on the user's device. Currently, Swift Mail is available directly via the Mac App Store with support extending back to Monterey. I’m also running a developer build on visionOS (if you have hardware and are interested in testing a beta release, please reach out to beta at swiftmail dot io). A sincere thank you to everyone who has contributed their valuable insights or participated in beta testing via TestFlight thus far. Looking forward to your feedback! - Karl

Kluggy 3y ago
Over all, I like how it looks, but the price seems high. $3 a month is almost as much as I pay for email service. Plus it seems weird to double drip. I’m already subscribed to you for the email service and you want me to almost double that price for a client to use it? Will the existing Fastmail app be deprecated to force folks to the new subscription app?
- baggachipz 3y ago
  The price is a deal-breaker for me. It's borderline insulting, having to pay a subscription fee for an already-paid email service. Were it a value-add, it'd be compelling. -- edit -- Turns out it's not made by Fastmail, it just uses "Fastmail's standard" of JMAP. I'm still not going to pay a monthly subscription for it; a one-time fee would be much more palatable IMO.
- mcpeepants 3y ago
  this isn't a first-party app for Fastmail, at least afaict. I had the same initial reaction before realizing this. (I still have the same reaction to the pricing... but at least it's not double dipping by Fastmail themselves)
  - mjmsmith 3y ago
    Could be worse, it's half the price of Mimestream...
    - earthnail 3y ago
      Which is a fraction of Superhuman.
- internalfx 3y ago
  Is this actually made by Fastmail? It doesn't look like it.
  - mk89 3y ago
    I honestly think removing Fastmail from the title would be waaay better for everyone. Some people even wondered if an email account is included in the price... (because of, ... Fastmail in the title). Anyway, they only refer to JMAP which was created apparently by Fastmail. It has nothing to do with the company, besides using their open email API protocol.
- pembrook 3y ago
  $3/month? Seriously? Does nobody here see the irony of being a community of people who make their income working in software that refuses to pay even $3/month for software? Ditto for the universal hatred of ad-based business models. This is why the consumer market for software is basically non-existent. Consumers value their time at $0 so they get free tools subsidized by intrusive ads or expensive hardware. Businesses make more rational decisions with their time and resources. To the developer of this cool product, I recommend targeting B2B instead.
  - Longlius 3y ago
    Subscription models are cancer. Sell me a license for a flat cost and stop wasting my time.
    - pembrook 3y ago
      Where do you work? How does the business that pays your salary make its money? Do they pay you for your efforts on a subscription based model or a one time-payment + ownership model?
      - freetanga 3y ago
        I bought my house. I bought my car. I bought my laptop. I bought my servers. I don’t need to pay for them every month. In broad terms I am tired of having to make a paycheck every month and having a long list of companies wanting to take a slice from it for “making my life magically better”. Hidden price hikes, dark patterns to cancel, etc.
        pembrook 3y ago
        You haven’t addressed any of my questions, but I’ll play along. Im also tired of having to pay my employees a slice of my revenue every month for “making my business magically better.” Hidden salary demands, dark patterns to fire them, etc. I own my car. I own my laptop. Why can’t I own you? I guess what I’m saying is, why do you think the code you write for your employer deserves to be sold on a subscription model (salary) —- yet you don’t afford the same opportunity to indie developers?
stdcss01 3y ago
Loving Swift Mail! Just installed last week and finally getting my email under control. Three email addresses from different services all together in the fastest email client I’ve ever used. Super smooth, clutter-free interface that I like opening every day.
steviedotboston 3y ago
The UI looks almost identical to https://mimestream.com/ https://mimestream.com/
- ac29 3y ago
  It also looks nearly identical to Fastmail's web UI.
- pembrook 3y ago
  Because both are designed to look like Apple Mail (the MacOS native app look is a selling point)
- kylehotchkiss 3y ago
  I thought it was Mimestream until I looked deeper and realized it wasn't.
thimp 3y ago
I like the look of it but I don't know what JMAP is and what the advantage is over say IMAP / SMTP.
- jbverschoor 3y ago
  It's a reworked email protocol, created by fastmail. Basically email over json (send + receive) instead of imap+smtp. https://jmap.io/ https://jmap.io/
  - thimp 3y ago
    Got it. Fuck that. JSON has no part in an email stack. Have we not learned from our failures as a species. Edit: I've got 99 problems and 98 of them are JSON on a regular basis. Poor parsers, problems dealing with numeric values, terrible terrible schema support, poor encapsulation support, large things attached to it in base64 (difficult to stream on most parsers), difficult to read without external tools which actually tend to mung or fix the problem you are trying to see (jq does this), completely arbitrary and random metadata jammed in everywhere by everyone trying to make it self-describing, shitty enapsulated types i.e. ISO 8601 date in a text field rather than a principal type. Urgh kill me. It's a hammer made of poo and no one knows any better any more. It's the PHP of wire formats. The COBOL of representation encapsulation. Edit 2: the only positive is it's probably less bad than CalDAV but that's not even supposed to be part of an email stack is it? Everyone has outlook brain.
    - pqdbr 3y ago
      I do not concur. JSON might not be perfect for e-mail (it isn't?) but it's great for a huge range of use-cases. It's a great achievement of our species.
    - sodality2 3y ago
      Why is JSON inherently unfit for an email stack...? It's just a transfer format. If it's designed well, it shouldn't matter if it's JSON or CBOR or anything else.
    - 3y ago
skymast 3y ago
[dead]
GrinningFool 3y ago
This looks good, but I'm not clear why it's a subscription. I'm happy to pay for upgrades when a new version with new features is offered; and I'm happy to not pay if the new version isn't compelling enough. (Sometimes support for major OS upgrades is enough of a feature.) I'm increasingly disinclined to feed the subscription-based software economy, especially for the personal tools I use.
- jbverschoor 3y ago
  Same! I like Sketch's and other app's approach. Keep the version forever, 1 year free upgrades. Great work! Will def. try it out
  - earthnail 3y ago
    Unfortunately that’s not supported by Apple on the App Store. Luckily Mac apps aren’t super reliant on the App Store but it’s still a huge issue.
    - LVB 3y ago
      I've purchased "Due" via the App Store, and it tells me I'm entitled to free feature upgrades for 1 year, shows a date when my unlock period expires, and offers a longer-term subscription. So it must be possible.
      - happymellon 3y ago
        After the expiration are you still able to access the older version?
        LVB 3y ago
        Yes. They seem to gate on a feature-by-feature basis, know when you bought the license, and you don't get access to the new features after 1 year (unless you're on their subscription plan). You do continue to get the latest app, which includes bug fixes, but the features released past expiration aren't available to you. https://dueapp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360053244591-What-is-the-Upgrade-Pass https://dueapp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360053244591-Wh...
core-utility 3y ago
Looked at it and debated leaving Spark Mail but the price throws me off, and the lack of IMAP support to still be able to receive my junk Gmail is a deal breaker.
amluto 3y ago
Does this work offline? Fastmail’s first party iOS app has such an amazing lack of offline functionality that I’m seriously considering canceling my Fastmail subscription. (Also the lack of threading is getting old.)
- sonofhans 3y ago
  FWIW I’ve been using native iOS mail with Fastmail forever and it works perfectly for me.
- thimp 3y ago
  Yeah good question. I do a lot of email on planes and travel where there is no internet. In fact I refuse to use any software that isn’t offline first these days. I was a Fastmail customer for many years but moved to apple’s iCloud+ when they introduced custom domain support as that works entirely offline on all my devices. Also that gives iPhone/mac integrated contacts and calendars with zero hassle that actually syncs to everything properly. It’s cheaper per seat as well (£25 a month for that plus Apple Music for 6 people a month). No brainer.
- knr2345 3y ago
  Swift Mail currently offers partial offline support. It doesn't provide full offline support by keeping a complete cached copy of all mail data on disk, as an IMAP client might. Any content received from the server will remain accessible offline and during subsequent app launches.
jbverschoor 3y ago
Congrats. Also on not collecting data! No trials?
- knr2345 3y ago
  Thank you! 3 and 7 day trials are available.
  - jbverschoor 3y ago
    I didn't see those lines somehow
Nextgrid 3y ago
Is there a way to unlock the custom JMAP server option? Currently it says coming soon - is the feature actually missing or is just disabled due to being experimental, and if so is there a secret keyboard shortcut/etc to enable it? Been meaning to play with JMAP but the lack of native clients thus far has been a problem.
- knr2345 3y ago
  No, it cannot be enabled within the client. It was disabled pending user feedback to allow private external testing of the feature while the app itself was open to public testing via website link. This was to ensure a high quality, two way support channel could be established when enabling the feature for external testing. (It also ensured Test Flight data & support channels would not become polluted with failed attempts to sign in with gmail or similar)
ubermonkey 3y ago
A mail client would need to be very very good indeed to get me to stop using the native Mac client. It's fast, stable, and talks to both IMAP and Exchange.
vel0city 3y ago
Aside from the obvious FOSS arguments, what are the big positives to JMAP for me as a user over using a client that supports Exchange?
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  It's HTTP-based and every request is stateless compared to IMAP, so it should tolerate unreliable connections better. IMAP in contrast is stateful and the process of establishing that state requires more round-trips, so connection establishment is slower.
berkut 3y ago
Getting a Bandwidth Restricted error: Bandwidth Restricted The page you have tried to access is not available because the owner of the file you are trying to access has exceeded our short term bandwidth limits. Please try again shortly.
- knr2345 3y ago
  Thanks! This should be resolved soon.
fotta 3y ago
seems like you've exceeded the bandwidth quota of your cdn provider
- knr2345 3y ago
  Thank you! Should be back up soon.
heeton 3y ago
Email snooze is, for me, a standard requirement for any email tool. I tried the free trial but cancelled.
Nevin1901 3y ago
I would be happy to pay $10 for this but definitely not a monthly subscription when Mail.app is free.
outcoldman 3y ago
It is very interesting, but there are plenty of stoppers for me: 1. Subscription model. I will be willing to pay even $250 for a good email client, that is superior to the native macOS client. If it really adds more features that I need. Meaning, I can use mostly all the email related features offered by Fastmail. But I am not willing to support subscription models. 2. No iOS client. I use email on macOS and iOS. Not having support for iOS is a dealbreaker. I want the same client. 3. No trial. As it seems like. I actually tried to download the app. There is a Sign-In page with a disabled Sign In button. I guess I need to subscribe to try it. I can spare $3, but I don't want to support subscription models. Seriously, give me an option to try it for 14–30 days, I will pay for it $100-$200, and you can ask me to pay you again for an upgrade in 3–4 years. 4. The main reason I don't want to try it, also because I am sure, there are probably some nice features, but at the same time, there are most likely so many issues with integrations between other apps. Like links from Reminders to the Mail client, or from Notes to the Mail client. And based on the roadmap [1] it seems like this is mostly MVP product. -- [1] https://feedback.swiftmail.io/roadmap/roadmap https://feedback.swiftmail.io/roadmap/roadmap
- outcoldman 3y ago
  Actually, spoke too soon. There is a trial. 7 days trial for annual subscription, 3 days trial for monthly. But I was right about that being MVP/Alpha product: 1. No reply button to email. You can only compose a new mail message. 2. I have received new mail, got notification, but don't see it in the list (inbox). You need to restart the mail client to do so. 3. No images are displayed in the message body. 4. The interface is very not-intuitive in some parts yet. Like in the Threads - to expand the message you need to click a tiny button on the right, clicking on the message or on the body does not do anything. Anyway, I am excited about this email client. But I don't see how I can justify paying for it yet. It is good maybe for read-only mode, but if I don't replace mail app, I don't see how it is much different from me just opening fast mail in the browser.
  - knr2345 3y ago
    A few of these are not correct. 1. Reply button is below the sender's profile symbol in the thread message header. 2. Thank you for the feedback on activating the notification. This should work as anticipated but it's been quite some time since I received feedback related to notification behaviors so I'll certainly take a look. 3. Images and remote content are blocked by default (similar to Mail.app); clicking the 'photo' button (next to the Flag button) in the message header will reveal these images. 4. Expanding threads by clicking in thread message header white space would be a welcome addition and feature request. I'll add this to the planned feature list. Expansion via body content click will require a bit more investigation, however. Appreciate the detailed feedback!
boplicity 3y ago
My number one requirement for any email interface is that it easily shows the "conversation history" of any contact I'm seeing. This saves me so much time, with the current software I use. I don't love my current software, though, so I'm always on the lookout for new options. Is this a planned feature?
mk89 3y ago
So much criticism. People, have fun developing stuff for free or for little to no money while having to support a shitload of OS versions and possibly multi-device, multiple framework versions, bugs, people sinking your app on the App Store if you don't react or whatever. 3 dollars per month are nothing IF the app is useful. Email is literally the thing you use the most. Why 3 and not 1 or 5? Maybe 3 dollars are just enough to keep people who just criticize you out of your customer base, which is maybe more worth, considering that nobody installs an app with 1 or 2 stars.
- linsomniac 3y ago
  That hits a little close to home. A couple months ago I built a tool to transfer my playlists from Spotify to YouTube Music, and I put it on github. Since then it's really taken off, I usually get a few stars a day, and I've put a bunch of work in both fixing issues that other people had and also just doing support for users having problems. The thing that is funding the development of it at this point is my slow-burning rage at Spotify; the more people I can help get out of Spotify the more wrapped in wings of vengeance I feel.
  - mk89 3y ago
    Well, I personally am happy that you found what motivates the development of your app :) However, some people still want to make that ugly thing called ... money... :) When that's the case, you really need to do your best NOT to let your app sink on the App Store - when that happens, you can say goodbye to your income (be it passive or active), unless someone really gives it a try because there is no other solution, etc. etc.
    - linsomniac 3y ago
      I'm agreeing with you that there is so much effort that goes into software beyond just the code. Just going from "something I can use" to "something everyone can use" has been a huge deal with my little Spotify-to-YTMusic app. I wrote it in an evening and transferred all my music. Since then I've probably put in 30 hours refining it, fixing it for other use cases, and supporting people trying to use it. I am, thankfully, in a position where I can do that in my spare time.
hrpnk 3y ago
Is JMAP the base for an email experience revolution? Wonder if we're ripe for one. For a long time, The Bat! was one of the best e-mail client for its times in the 2000s. Loved it's ticker-style notification bar back then. Sad to see that this piece of software has deteriorated over time and not evolved to support Mac/Linux. Next, Thunderbird emerged as an open alternative that was stable for a time. When GMail took over, few innovations came for email with its own Inbox being a starting point, followed by Superhuman and Hey. Is there room for more? Or are folks too attached to the traditional form of email?
smcleod 3y ago
Bandwidth Restricted The page you have tried to access is not available because the owner of the file you are trying to access has exceeded our short term bandwidth limits. Please try again shortly. Details: 451 Actioning this file would cause "swiftmail.io//" to exceed the per-day file actions limit of 80000 actions, try again later
- knr2345 3y ago
  Thank you! The response caught me by surprise. Working on this now & adding a few links below for ref in the meantime: https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=122632741&ct=20240219mb72a&mt=8 https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=12263... https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail mailto:contact@swiftmail.io
knr2345 3y ago
Apologies for the website bandwidth issue! The response caught me by surprise. Working on this now & adding a few links below for ref in the meantime: https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=122632741&ct=20240219mb72a&mt=8 https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=12263... https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail mailto:contact@swiftmail.io
nikolay 3y ago
This is way too expensive!
holigot 3y ago
Hi, thanks for this nice App. Will have a look at it. There is another cool app coming up. It's called FMail2 http://fmail-app.fr http://fmail-app.fr Maybe it's also interesting to compare it. Just to let you know about.

79 points by knr2345 3y ago

Kluggy 3y ago

Over all, I like how it looks, but the price seems high. $3 a month is almost as much as I pay for email service. Plus it seems weird to double drip. I’m already subscribed to you for the email service and you want me to almost double that price for a client to use it? Will the existing Fastmail app be deprecated to force folks to the new subscription app?

baggachipz 3y ago
The price is a deal-breaker for me. It's borderline insulting, having to pay a subscription fee for an already-paid email service. Were it a value-add, it'd be compelling. -- edit -- Turns out it's not made by Fastmail, it just uses "Fastmail's standard" of JMAP. I'm still not going to pay a monthly subscription for it; a one-time fee would be much more palatable IMO.
mcpeepants 3y ago
this isn't a first-party app for Fastmail, at least afaict. I had the same initial reaction before realizing this. (I still have the same reaction to the pricing... but at least it's not double dipping by Fastmail themselves)
- mjmsmith 3y ago
  Could be worse, it's half the price of Mimestream...
  - earthnail 3y ago
    Which is a fraction of Superhuman.
internalfx 3y ago
Is this actually made by Fastmail? It doesn't look like it.
- mk89 3y ago
  I honestly think removing Fastmail from the title would be waaay better for everyone. Some people even wondered if an email account is included in the price... (because of, ... Fastmail in the title). Anyway, they only refer to JMAP which was created apparently by Fastmail. It has nothing to do with the company, besides using their open email API protocol.
pembrook 3y ago
$3/month? Seriously? Does nobody here see the irony of being a community of people who make their income working in software that refuses to pay even $3/month for software? Ditto for the universal hatred of ad-based business models. This is why the consumer market for software is basically non-existent. Consumers value their time at $0 so they get free tools subsidized by intrusive ads or expensive hardware. Businesses make more rational decisions with their time and resources. To the developer of this cool product, I recommend targeting B2B instead.
- Longlius 3y ago
  Subscription models are cancer. Sell me a license for a flat cost and stop wasting my time.
  - pembrook 3y ago
    Where do you work? How does the business that pays your salary make its money? Do they pay you for your efforts on a subscription based model or a one time-payment + ownership model?
    - freetanga 3y ago
      I bought my house. I bought my car. I bought my laptop. I bought my servers. I don’t need to pay for them every month. In broad terms I am tired of having to make a paycheck every month and having a long list of companies wanting to take a slice from it for “making my life magically better”. Hidden price hikes, dark patterns to cancel, etc.
      - pembrook 3y ago
        You haven’t addressed any of my questions, but I’ll play along. Im also tired of having to pay my employees a slice of my revenue every month for “making my business magically better.” Hidden salary demands, dark patterns to fire them, etc. I own my car. I own my laptop. Why can’t I own you? I guess what I’m saying is, why do you think the code you write for your employer deserves to be sold on a subscription model (salary) —- yet you don’t afford the same opportunity to indie developers?

stdcss01 3y ago

Loving Swift Mail! Just installed last week and finally getting my email under control. Three email addresses from different services all together in the fastest email client I’ve ever used. Super smooth, clutter-free interface that I like opening every day.

steviedotboston 3y ago

The UI looks almost identical to https://mimestream.com/ https://mimestream.com/

ac29 3y ago
It also looks nearly identical to Fastmail's web UI.
pembrook 3y ago
Because both are designed to look like Apple Mail (the MacOS native app look is a selling point)
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
I thought it was Mimestream until I looked deeper and realized it wasn't.

thimp 3y ago

I like the look of it but I don't know what JMAP is and what the advantage is over say IMAP / SMTP.

jbverschoor 3y ago
It's a reworked email protocol, created by fastmail. Basically email over json (send + receive) instead of imap+smtp. https://jmap.io/ https://jmap.io/
- thimp 3y ago
  Got it. Fuck that. JSON has no part in an email stack. Have we not learned from our failures as a species. Edit: I've got 99 problems and 98 of them are JSON on a regular basis. Poor parsers, problems dealing with numeric values, terrible terrible schema support, poor encapsulation support, large things attached to it in base64 (difficult to stream on most parsers), difficult to read without external tools which actually tend to mung or fix the problem you are trying to see (jq does this), completely arbitrary and random metadata jammed in everywhere by everyone trying to make it self-describing, shitty enapsulated types i.e. ISO 8601 date in a text field rather than a principal type. Urgh kill me. It's a hammer made of poo and no one knows any better any more. It's the PHP of wire formats. The COBOL of representation encapsulation. Edit 2: the only positive is it's probably less bad than CalDAV but that's not even supposed to be part of an email stack is it? Everyone has outlook brain.
  - pqdbr 3y ago
    I do not concur. JSON might not be perfect for e-mail (it isn't?) but it's great for a huge range of use-cases. It's a great achievement of our species.
  - sodality2 3y ago
    Why is JSON inherently unfit for an email stack...? It's just a transfer format. If it's designed well, it shouldn't matter if it's JSON or CBOR or anything else.
  - 3y ago

skymast 3y ago

[dead]

GrinningFool 3y ago

This looks good, but I'm not clear why it's a subscription. I'm happy to pay for upgrades when a new version with new features is offered; and I'm happy to not pay if the new version isn't compelling enough. (Sometimes support for major OS upgrades is enough of a feature.) I'm increasingly disinclined to feed the subscription-based software economy, especially for the personal tools I use.

jbverschoor 3y ago
Same! I like Sketch's and other app's approach. Keep the version forever, 1 year free upgrades. Great work! Will def. try it out
- earthnail 3y ago
  Unfortunately that’s not supported by Apple on the App Store. Luckily Mac apps aren’t super reliant on the App Store but it’s still a huge issue.
  - LVB 3y ago
    I've purchased "Due" via the App Store, and it tells me I'm entitled to free feature upgrades for 1 year, shows a date when my unlock period expires, and offers a longer-term subscription. So it must be possible.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      After the expiration are you still able to access the older version?
      - LVB 3y ago
        Yes. They seem to gate on a feature-by-feature basis, know when you bought the license, and you don't get access to the new features after 1 year (unless you're on their subscription plan). You do continue to get the latest app, which includes bug fixes, but the features released past expiration aren't available to you. https://dueapp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360053244591-What-is-the-Upgrade-Pass https://dueapp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360053244591-Wh...

core-utility 3y ago

Looked at it and debated leaving Spark Mail but the price throws me off, and the lack of IMAP support to still be able to receive my junk Gmail is a deal breaker.

amluto 3y ago

Does this work offline? Fastmail’s first party iOS app has such an amazing lack of offline functionality that I’m seriously considering canceling my Fastmail subscription. (Also the lack of threading is getting old.)

sonofhans 3y ago
FWIW I’ve been using native iOS mail with Fastmail forever and it works perfectly for me.
thimp 3y ago
Yeah good question. I do a lot of email on planes and travel where there is no internet. In fact I refuse to use any software that isn’t offline first these days. I was a Fastmail customer for many years but moved to apple’s iCloud+ when they introduced custom domain support as that works entirely offline on all my devices. Also that gives iPhone/mac integrated contacts and calendars with zero hassle that actually syncs to everything properly. It’s cheaper per seat as well (£25 a month for that plus Apple Music for 6 people a month). No brainer.
knr2345 3y ago
Swift Mail currently offers partial offline support. It doesn't provide full offline support by keeping a complete cached copy of all mail data on disk, as an IMAP client might. Any content received from the server will remain accessible offline and during subsequent app launches.

jbverschoor 3y ago

Congrats. Also on not collecting data! No trials?

knr2345 3y ago
Thank you! 3 and 7 day trials are available.
- jbverschoor 3y ago
  I didn't see those lines somehow

Nextgrid 3y ago

Is there a way to unlock the custom JMAP server option? Currently it says coming soon - is the feature actually missing or is just disabled due to being experimental, and if so is there a secret keyboard shortcut/etc to enable it? Been meaning to play with JMAP but the lack of native clients thus far has been a problem.

knr2345 3y ago
No, it cannot be enabled within the client. It was disabled pending user feedback to allow private external testing of the feature while the app itself was open to public testing via website link. This was to ensure a high quality, two way support channel could be established when enabling the feature for external testing. (It also ensured Test Flight data & support channels would not become polluted with failed attempts to sign in with gmail or similar)

ubermonkey 3y ago

A mail client would need to be very very good indeed to get me to stop using the native Mac client. It's fast, stable, and talks to both IMAP and Exchange.

vel0city 3y ago

Aside from the obvious FOSS arguments, what are the big positives to JMAP for me as a user over using a client that supports Exchange?

Nextgrid 3y ago
It's HTTP-based and every request is stateless compared to IMAP, so it should tolerate unreliable connections better. IMAP in contrast is stateful and the process of establishing that state requires more round-trips, so connection establishment is slower.

berkut 3y ago

Getting a Bandwidth Restricted error: Bandwidth Restricted The page you have tried to access is not available because the owner of the file you are trying to access has exceeded our short term bandwidth limits. Please try again shortly.

knr2345 3y ago
Thanks! This should be resolved soon.

fotta 3y ago

seems like you've exceeded the bandwidth quota of your cdn provider

knr2345 3y ago
Thank you! Should be back up soon.

heeton 3y ago

Email snooze is, for me, a standard requirement for any email tool. I tried the free trial but cancelled.

Nevin1901 3y ago

I would be happy to pay $10 for this but definitely not a monthly subscription when Mail.app is free.

outcoldman 3y ago

It is very interesting, but there are plenty of stoppers for me: 1. Subscription model. I will be willing to pay even $250 for a good email client, that is superior to the native macOS client. If it really adds more features that I need. Meaning, I can use mostly all the email related features offered by Fastmail. But I am not willing to support subscription models. 2. No iOS client. I use email on macOS and iOS. Not having support for iOS is a dealbreaker. I want the same client. 3. No trial. As it seems like. I actually tried to download the app. There is a Sign-In page with a disabled Sign In button. I guess I need to subscribe to try it. I can spare $3, but I don't want to support subscription models. Seriously, give me an option to try it for 14–30 days, I will pay for it $100-$200, and you can ask me to pay you again for an upgrade in 3–4 years. 4. The main reason I don't want to try it, also because I am sure, there are probably some nice features, but at the same time, there are most likely so many issues with integrations between other apps. Like links from Reminders to the Mail client, or from Notes to the Mail client. And based on the roadmap [1] it seems like this is mostly MVP product. -- [1] https://feedback.swiftmail.io/roadmap/roadmap https://feedback.swiftmail.io/roadmap/roadmap

outcoldman 3y ago
Actually, spoke too soon. There is a trial. 7 days trial for annual subscription, 3 days trial for monthly. But I was right about that being MVP/Alpha product: 1. No reply button to email. You can only compose a new mail message. 2. I have received new mail, got notification, but don't see it in the list (inbox). You need to restart the mail client to do so. 3. No images are displayed in the message body. 4. The interface is very not-intuitive in some parts yet. Like in the Threads - to expand the message you need to click a tiny button on the right, clicking on the message or on the body does not do anything. Anyway, I am excited about this email client. But I don't see how I can justify paying for it yet. It is good maybe for read-only mode, but if I don't replace mail app, I don't see how it is much different from me just opening fast mail in the browser.
- knr2345 3y ago
  A few of these are not correct. 1. Reply button is below the sender's profile symbol in the thread message header. 2. Thank you for the feedback on activating the notification. This should work as anticipated but it's been quite some time since I received feedback related to notification behaviors so I'll certainly take a look. 3. Images and remote content are blocked by default (similar to Mail.app); clicking the 'photo' button (next to the Flag button) in the message header will reveal these images. 4. Expanding threads by clicking in thread message header white space would be a welcome addition and feature request. I'll add this to the planned feature list. Expansion via body content click will require a bit more investigation, however. Appreciate the detailed feedback!

boplicity 3y ago

My number one requirement for any email interface is that it easily shows the "conversation history" of any contact I'm seeing. This saves me so much time, with the current software I use. I don't love my current software, though, so I'm always on the lookout for new options. Is this a planned feature?

mk89 3y ago

So much criticism. People, have fun developing stuff for free or for little to no money while having to support a shitload of OS versions and possibly multi-device, multiple framework versions, bugs, people sinking your app on the App Store if you don't react or whatever. 3 dollars per month are nothing IF the app is useful. Email is literally the thing you use the most. Why 3 and not 1 or 5? Maybe 3 dollars are just enough to keep people who just criticize you out of your customer base, which is maybe more worth, considering that nobody installs an app with 1 or 2 stars.

linsomniac 3y ago
That hits a little close to home. A couple months ago I built a tool to transfer my playlists from Spotify to YouTube Music, and I put it on github. Since then it's really taken off, I usually get a few stars a day, and I've put a bunch of work in both fixing issues that other people had and also just doing support for users having problems. The thing that is funding the development of it at this point is my slow-burning rage at Spotify; the more people I can help get out of Spotify the more wrapped in wings of vengeance I feel.
- mk89 3y ago
  Well, I personally am happy that you found what motivates the development of your app :) However, some people still want to make that ugly thing called ... money... :) When that's the case, you really need to do your best NOT to let your app sink on the App Store - when that happens, you can say goodbye to your income (be it passive or active), unless someone really gives it a try because there is no other solution, etc. etc.
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    I'm agreeing with you that there is so much effort that goes into software beyond just the code. Just going from "something I can use" to "something everyone can use" has been a huge deal with my little Spotify-to-YTMusic app. I wrote it in an evening and transferred all my music. Since then I've probably put in 30 hours refining it, fixing it for other use cases, and supporting people trying to use it. I am, thankfully, in a position where I can do that in my spare time.

hrpnk 3y ago

Is JMAP the base for an email experience revolution? Wonder if we're ripe for one. For a long time, The Bat! was one of the best e-mail client for its times in the 2000s. Loved it's ticker-style notification bar back then. Sad to see that this piece of software has deteriorated over time and not evolved to support Mac/Linux. Next, Thunderbird emerged as an open alternative that was stable for a time. When GMail took over, few innovations came for email with its own Inbox being a starting point, followed by Superhuman and Hey. Is there room for more? Or are folks too attached to the traditional form of email?

smcleod 3y ago

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knr2345 3y ago
Thank you! The response caught me by surprise. Working on this now & adding a few links below for ref in the meantime: https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=122632741&ct=20240219mb72a&mt=8 https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=12263... https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail mailto:contact@swiftmail.io

knr2345 3y ago

Apologies for the website bandwidth issue! The response caught me by surprise. Working on this now & adding a few links below for ref in the meantime: https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=122632741&ct=20240219mb72a&mt=8 https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1595671863?pt=12263... https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://twitter.com/SwiftMail_io https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail https://mastodon.social/@SwiftMail mailto:contact@swiftmail.io

nikolay 3y ago

This is way too expensive!

holigot 3y ago

Hi, thanks for this nice App. Will have a look at it. There is another cool app coming up. It's called FMail2 http://fmail-app.fr http://fmail-app.fr Maybe it's also interesting to compare it. Just to let you know about.