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I started buying Lenovo mini PCs instead, 18cm x 18cm x 3cm so it's still really small. And you can get them dirt cheap nowadays, has proper casing and cooling
by haunter 3y ago
I started buying Lenovo mini PCs instead, 18cm x 18cm x 3cm so it's still really small.
And you can get them dirt cheap nowadays, has proper casing and cooling etc https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCentre_M720_Tiny/ThinkCentre_M720_Tiny_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCe...
I have one right next to me, i5-8500T, 32GB RAM, 2x SSDs and currently 5W at idle with powertop auto-tune https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/powertop https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/powertop
- thedougd 3y agoSame. Bought a Dell refurb and I’ve had so many fewer hassles. The SD card was perhaps the biggest source of issues and after factoring the cost of outfitting a RPi with something like an SSD, it just wasn’t cost effective anymore.
- mbirth 3y agoThis I never understood. I have 3 different RPis running since they were available to buy. A 2, a 3 and a 4. All with the OS on microSD and no optimisation like writing log files to tmpfs or similar. It’s plain Ubuntu Server for ARM. And in all these years, I had maybe one microSD going read-only on me. Cloned that to a fresh one, did an fsck and the Pi was up and running again. That’s it. No other issues despite various sudden power losses etc. I don’t understand where these rumours about bad reliability of SD cards in Pis come from.
- thedougd 3y agoMaybe you're lucky or buying the right SD cards? I've always used noatime for filesystem, journald set to ram logging, etc. Usually everything seems fine until a reboot triggers a fsck. Most were ext 3/4 filesystems.
- ecef9-8c0f-4374 3y agoPi 1 a/b were really fragile but since pi 2 this problem is mostly solved. Still if I need to write a lot I would use a external drive. We have >300 pies running 24/7 on 52 sites all over the world. Even though we use no name brand microSDs we had only 2 failures because of a broken SD card in 4 years. Our partner company was using our hardware as a basis for something. After 1 month they asked us what SD cards brand we were using because they had a high failure rate. Our secret. We use a self made distro with minimal writes, they used default raspian and were writing permanently to the SD card.
- Joel_Mckay 3y agoMini PC (or laptop motherboards) also have normal SSD storage, and are thus much more reliable than micro sdcard MLC flash cards. There are ways to make Pi's more reliable, but it usually requires a lot of extra parts. The ARM SoC do not have an IME though... ;)
- transpute 3y ago> The ARM SoC do not have an IME though... RPi 4 boots from GPU/VPU running closed firmware (incl. Microsoft ThreadX RTOS), which retains full control over the OS application processor, https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers Boards based on the Broadcom VideoCore 4 family, such as the Raspberry Pi, require non-free software to startup, although signature checks are not enforced. A free proof-of-concept replacement firmware has been developed, but it is not in a usable state, and development has halted. By default, the GPU requires a blob running in this same startup firmware. However, Broadcom also supplies an "experimental" free software stack, which could run without blobs, if the startup firmware were free.
- Joel_Mckay 3y agoA boot-loader or GPU driver blob is different from an entire copy of Minix OS running on the Intel CPU that will boot-loop the hardware every 20 minutes if wiped. The RISCV also offers something unique over Pi ARM chips, but little economic incentive to stop the shenanigans. ;)
- transpute 3y agoComment by the developer who attempted to create open firmware for RPi, https://github.com/christinaa/rpi-open-firmware/issues/37 https://github.com/christinaa/rpi-open-firmware/issues/37 > a lot of corners were cut to save time leading to what I believe is poor ARMv7+ Cortex IP integration (GIC, TrustZone, etc). So I stopped working on it. If those things were not the case (GIC working, "TZPCs" working, security working as intended, instead of NS forced to high on bridge, at least in my understanding) I would still work on it ... ARM isn't a second class citizen on this platform, it's a third class citizen since BCM2709 (again this is an opinion) ... the features I wanted to tinker with the most are absent by design (cutting corners) and I'm not willing to resort to SW emulation of them through clever uses of the VPU. Hopefully RPi 5 silicon offers a better foundation for open firmware.
- cschneid 3y agoSimilarly, I saw some youtube videos just the other day talking about intel's (newish?) N100 chip. You can pick up a small mini pc for under $150 new, runs windows or linux, and is on-par speed-wise with the 8500 iirc. Plenty fast for small server use cases, although you do give up the raw GPIO pins. Also of note, it's x86, which has me interested as a field-portable ham radio computer. Most software runs on rpi (my current setup), but x86 is universally supported by stuff. Just need to figure out the monitor situation.... maybe vnc from an ipad? :)
- woleium 3y agoyou can get a usb powered hdmi portable 10 inch monitor on aliexpress for less than $100
- mortos 3y agoI got an N100 fanless computer for about $100, with the right Aliexpress deals. With 4x i266-v (2.5GbE). Just needed RAM and M.2. The total power draw is also quite low, I've seen people measure 7w total from the wall. At about $.32/kWh, this is saving me a lot over an eBay computer. The CPU is enough for my needs, currently running Proxmox with OPNsense. And x86 was a major draw for me over the RPi.
- bee_rider 3y agoI did a portable NUC for a while, just powered off some no-name li-ion backup battery (a slightly bigger one because you need the 12-20v out). There are plenty of decent portable monitors out there. I ended up with an MSI one, but I think any laptop brand can make a monitor (I also had some no-name one which had a nicer resolution but ended up breaking pretty quickly). Anyway, I eventually concluded that I was wasting time re-inventing the laptop. It was nice to be able to put the unnecessary extra stuff, like the monitor and battery away, when using it in desktop mode (saving desk space). And the ability to pick a proper keyboard is nice. But buying part-by-part has some downsides. You pay extra because this is all niche stuff, it doesn’t slip as nicely into a backpack (otoh if I only needed to bring the NUC somewhere, it could fit in my cargo shorts or bike under-saddle bag which was neat). And random integration things—you need to bring all the right cables, the battery probably doesn’t talk to your OS so you have to check it manually. I also did SSH and VNC from an iPad, it works fine, you’ll probably want a keyboard and end up with something like a laptop, but extra latency and your SSH/VNC client will waste some pixels. I also did SSH and VNC from my iPhone, got a little stand and everything. That combo actually got interested questions in a coffee shop, so nerdy niche computing mission accomplished, haha! So, I hate to ask the boring question because it was a really fun project and I got years of use out of it, but: Why not a laptop?
- photonbeam 3y agoIs ssd and ram replaceable on these?
- haunter 3y agoYes to both 2x DDR4 SO-DIMM RAM (notebook) slots. No ECC though (at least on this model) And you can have 2 storage drives. One 2.5" and one M2.NVME
- mmsimanga 3y agoNot OP but I am in the process of upgrading my M93P Lenovo Thinkcenter. Uses laptop ram and simple to replace hard drive and RAM. I am far from a hardware guy.
- youngtaff 3y agoYes, almost everything is replaceable https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/thinkcentre_pdf/m910q_ug_hmm_en.pdf https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/thinkcentre_pdf/m910q_ug_... Can even add HDMI, serial ports etc.
- NelsonMinar 3y agoThere's a wonderful world of Mini-PCs and homelabs out there. The new N100 based ones are amazing for under $200.
- eek2121 3y agoThe Ryzen ones are pretty amazing. I have one with a 8 core 16 thread “Cezanne” chip that performs all kinds of tasks. (game servers, jellyfin, etc.)
- spacecadet 3y agoGreat advice. I also use Lenovo Mini PCs in place of SBC's on some projects and they can be very capable.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Ao7bei3s 3y agoDoes anyone know of a low power, mini PC that supports 2 or even 4 SATA SSDs (both connector and physical space wise)? Most, incl. the Lenovo above, seem to support at best 1x M.2 + 1x SATA. The best choice I have found is using a N100DC-ITX mainboard with a generic ITX case, and those are huge. I am looking to replace my Raspi / USB SSDs combination.
- squarefoot 3y agoI recently migrated my NAS from a Mini-ITX mainboard to a mini PC. Although there are m.2 cards with multiple SATA ports on board, they would require either to keep the PC open or mount it into a bigger case with multiple disks bay. I chose instead a more costly but potentially more stable solution with a IcyBox IB-3780-C31 enclosure (8xSATA to USB3.1) which is well supported by either Linux and FreeBSD, which is important as I use XigmaNAS. The mini PC I used was the only one with a USB3.1 port on board CPU is a N5105 which is more than enough for 4 ZFS mirrors. Feel free to ask if you need more information.
- hollerith 3y agoI've lost data by having as my home directory an external drive connected via USB (on an ext4 file system). Then I found a comment on this site saying that Linux's USB driver is known to be unreliable when layering a file system (terminology?) over it.
- transpute 3y agoIn theory, USB could be avoided with DIY JBOD: - Thunderbolt to NVME M.2 enclosure - M.2 to SATA breakout Or: - Thunderbolt to NVME M.2 enclosure - M.2 to PCIe slot - LSI HBA PCIe card to SATA
- hollerith 3y agoWhat I do is I keep using the same (Samsung T7) external drive I lost the data on, but now I use it only to transfer data from one computer's internal drive to another computer's.
- squarefoot 3y agoLast year I've migrated my Kodi media player from a RasPi 4 to a N3350 mini PC and didn't look back, then recently also moved my NAS (N5105) and services (3215U) machine to mini PCs and unlocked Chromebooks I got used on either Ebay or flea markets. They're cheap and the computing power is on another planet compared to the PI while still maintaining a low power consumption.
- eisa01 3y agoAny mini PCs with ECC RAM yet? Would love to make a small all-flash NAS, but the only one I know about does not have it: https://www.asustor.com/en/product?p_id=80 https://www.asustor.com/en/product?p_id=80
- transpute 3y ago$150 PC Engines APU2 (RIP) has 4GB ECC soldered RAM, SATA, mSATA and mPCIE. $650 QNAP TS435XeU 1U NAS supports 4GB-32GB ECC SODIMM, 4xSATA, 2xNVME, based on Marvell/Armada CN9130 Arm SoC. Debian for Arm64 can be installed via serial console. Some 4x4 Ryzen Embedded V1000 mini PCs support ECC SODIMM, e.g. https://www.sapphiretech.com/en/commercial/fs-fp5#Specification https://www.sapphiretech.com/en/commercial/fs-fp5#Specificat..., possibly ASRock.
- 6th 3y agoI have a 32GB DDR5 ECC in a max spec https://www.solid-run.com/industrial-computers/bedrock-v3000-basic/ https://www.solid-run.com/industrial-computers/bedrock-v3000... - it's headless. You can go to 96 GB. With displays: https://www.solid-run.com/industrial-computers/bedrock-r7000/ https://www.solid-run.com/industrial-computers/bedrock-r7000...
- SJetKaran 3y agoHow do you monitor the power consumption of your pc?
- trevithick 3y agoI use one of these. https://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html https://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html
- ed_balls 3y agoInteresting, I was always in Mac mini camp. I'd be cool to do a comparison new Lenovo mini vs used M1 Mac mini - should be the same price.
- nonethewiser 3y agoI imagine it comes down to if you want macos or not. Seems like a niche choice when comparing to something like the pi.
- ace2358 3y agoWhen I switched from Intel Mac to the M2, I was easily able to get my Linus and windows VMs running again. As well as my intel apps. Was pretty smooth and the speed and power efficiency gains are obvious. My mac book air draws about 5w total while the DAW is cool as a cucumber.
- robotnikman 3y agoThe fact that you can run just about any linux distro is also nice when compared to ARM hardware.
- heavyset_go 3y agoYup, this is the reason I refuse to buy anymore ARM SBCs. You're always dependent on someone building a bespoke Linux image for your particular device into perpetuity, which rarely happens.
- cylinder714 3y agoThat's a good point, but the array of devices supported by the DietPi team is extensive: https://dietpi.com/ https://dietpi.com/
- heavyset_go 3y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I believe DietPi isn't maintaining the necessary kernel forks many of the devices require, and is dependent on upstream kernel fork changes from manufacturers/vendors. Most of those boards can run mainline Linux, but certain features and integrations only exist in external forks that weren't put into vanilla Linux. The end result is either that you're still dependent on someone maintaining bespoke Linux kernel forks in perpetuity, or you ship relatively up-to-date kernels that lack features, drivers, etc that only exist in the forks.
- droopyEyelids 3y agoanother option in this vein is a used google chrome box. they're rated for 24x7 operation in dusty high vibration environments. can change the boot loader and install any distro. low idle power, std sodimm and nvme drives. super cheap used. usb-c and ethernet
- folmar 3y agoHere in Europe I don't see any of them for less than $100. And for a small server something like OrangePi 3B (with nvme etc.) would be be reasonable at half the price and half the power.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- atoav 3y agoNo GPIOs, no I2C, no SPI. If you are purely in search for a small light seever, this is a suitable choice, but Raspis are popular also for the more unusual (for consumer/office devices) IO. Good you could add a serial comnection to a microcontroller etc, but then the solution won't be as elegant.
- weugek 3y agoIs it elegant is use GPIO on an rpi?
- atoav 3y agoSorry I don't really understand the question, but: - if you ask whether the way of using GPIOs on a Raspi is elegant, I would say, yeah quite. Python and gpiozero are a good elegant way to go that route - if you ask whether it is elegant to use GPIO on a Raspi in principle, I can't answer your question because that depends on what you use it for. There are extremely elegant ways and there are ugly hacks that shouldn't exist. That being said if you quickly need analog input you can just add an ADC to the gpio and you have it. That is more elegant than having to add an usb peripheral.
- krick 3y agoWhat's your definition of dirt cheap? These don't seems cheap by any means.
- StimDeck 3y agoCertainly not compared to the Pi.
- firecall 3y agoI do the same, but with Dell 7060s. There are thousands of them coming off lease for sale here in Australia. 8500T or 8700T chips are fantastic. They can officially run Windows 11 and have have hardware transcoding built In, so are great for a Plex server! I’ve upgraded one of mine with 2x 2GB SSD and 64GB RAM. Never any issues and it runs 247.
- mths 3y ago> There are thousands of them coming off lease for sale here in Australia. Where would I find one and what do they go for? As a Plex server, do you know if they can handle hardware transcoding? Thanks!
- logicprog 3y agoI have a Dell Optiplex 7050 I'm using as a video streaming server and even that generation has hardware transcoding capabilities for all modern formats except AV1, and can do them fast enough for basic streaming too. Six 1080p simultaneous video streams from personal testing before any lag or stutter begins to creep in. And I know that the Intel integrated gpus of the generation after — so what would be in the 7060s I believe — got like a 4x boost in video transcoding performance as Intel kind of figured things out and optimized things, so yeah 7060 would probably be really good.
- naikrovek 3y agoThanks. That is super helpful info on a post about Raspberry Pis. The number of posts on this site that people want to turn into “show & tell” is very high. Just make a Show HN post about whatever you want to show off and let the voters decide the fate of the post.