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Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti with 22GB Memory Appears on eBay for USD500
- abledon 3y agodreams of a time where EU regulates GPU manufacturers into providing a pluggable interface for VRAM on the cards... 2035?
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- jsheard 3y agoThe signaling requirements are way too tight for pluggable VRAM to ever be a thing. If anything we're headed in the other direction, with CPUs losing pluggable memory in order to achieve tighter timings like GPUs do, Apple is already doing it and Intel is set to follow. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cpu-with-on-package-lpddr5x https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cp...
- sspiff 3y agoExactly. There's a reason these chips are always surrounding the processor (since the 2000s) and why we haven't seen GDDR based plugable memory modules. For this same reason (timing precision) you see that soldered DDR5 memory often reaches way higher speeds than what's available in DIMM or SODIMM form.
- jsheard 3y agoI'm looking forward to the performance, but not looking forward to higher capacity RAM being segmented off to overpriced "professional" SKUs like high VRAM capacity is on GPUs. Currently you can run up to 192GB RAM on a consumer CPU platform but I doubt RAM-on-package consumer parts will scale that high.
- sspiff 3y agoYeah manufacturers love this evolution because it means everyone who wants or needs high memory will be forced to buy for their projected memory needs throughout the live cycle of the product on day one, and the only place they can get it is at inflated prices from the vendor. I wonder how they will do this in the workstation and server space, I don't really see how they can do away with socketed CPUs. I wonder if we will go back to slotted CPUs, with a SOM style board with CPU and memory being plugged into a motherboard/chassis that's really just an I/O back plane. How will multi Cpu communication look then? I guess we already have memory being pinned to a NUMA node and connecting to others via a vendor specific interconnect, so maybe it's not that strange and different from today.
- jsheard 3y ago> I wonder how they will do this in the workstation and server space, I don't really see how they can do away with socketed CPUs. I'm guessing the endgame will be consumer parts all being RAM-on-package with no external memory interface, and workstation/server parts will take a hybrid approach like Intel is already doing with the Xeon Max chips which have 64GB HBM on the package and an external DDR5 interface supporting terabytes of slower bulk memory.
- dist-epoch 3y agoAlmost nobody upgrades a socketed CPU. Sockets still make sense because you can choose between 10 or so different CPUs for a particular socket format. But with just in time manufacturing you can imagine ordering the CPU directly from the motherboard manufacturer which solders it in place.
- Liftyee 3y ago> Almost nobody upgrades a socketed CPU. Given that AMD has been releasing AM4 CPUs since 2016, I think it's reasonable to assume that many of those who know how to build computers in the first place have upgraded their CPU. Why switch the whole motherboard/CPU combination when you can just plug in a better CPU?
- magicalhippo 3y agoWe're already half-way in a heterogeneous future, with chiplets[1] and mixed cores[2][3] etc. Could we expand this to memory, having some soldered (on-chip?) high-speed memory, and then slots for additional slower, yet faster then the alternatives, DIMMs? Or would the cost of the extra complexity of the memory controller likely not be worth it ever? [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13560/amd-unveils-chiplet-design-approach-7nm-zen-2-cores-meets-14-nm-io-die https://www.anandtech.com/show/13560/amd-unveils-chiplet-des... [2]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/how-hybrid-design-works.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/how... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE
- cyanydeez 3y agoto do this, I assume they're gonna need to stop die shrinks and drastically improve yields. the reason to separate all the components are to ensure high percentage of functional pieces
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y agoChiplets help with yield a lot.
- jsheard 3y ago> Could we expand this to memory, having some soldered (on-chip?) high-speed memory, and then slots for additional slower, yet faster then the alternatives, DIMMs? Intel's already doing that with Xeon Max, it has both onboard HBM and an outboard DDR5 interface. It can be configured to run entirely from HBM with no DDR5 installed at all, or use the HBM as a huge cache in front of the DDR5, or to map the HBM and DDR5 into different memory regions to let software decide how to use each. I don't think there's been any indication of that approach filtering down to consumer architectures though, Intel is talking about doing RAM-on-package there but without any outboard memory interface alongside it.
- wongarsu 3y agoObviously high-end consumer CPUs already have about 30MB of on-chip memory, with server CPUs reaching a solid 300MB. We just prefer to call it L2 and L3 cache. If we add more memory in a chiplet format I suspect mainstream CPUs would simply expose (or rather hide) it as L3 or L4 cache. Most software isn't even NUMA aware, and would completely fail to take advantage of a tiered memory hierarchy if it was given the option. But if we make the fast memory a big cache and let the CPU worry about it it's a "cheap" win. Though there is the Xeon Phi which has about 16GB of on-package memory that can either be configured as cache or as "scratchpad" memory. But of course that's not meant for general-purpose software
- dist-epoch 3y agoOne could imagine a two deck PCB, where you have another PCB board underneath the main one for additional close memory chip locations with a high density vertical interconnect.
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- lvl102 3y ago[flagged]
- wongarsu 3y agoEU companies selling in the US have to follow US regulations, US companies selling in the EU have to follow EU regulations. And in both cases, only for activities in the respective market. For example Apple would be free to sell lightning port iPhones in the US and USB-C iPhones in the EU. Or don't make USB-C iPhones and not sell any iPhones in the EU, if they don't want to be "leeched". Same for Nvidia and this hypothetical regulation for swappable RAM (which is never going to happen because it isn't technically viable)
- Cheer2171 3y agoIf you do business with citizens of another country, in that country, you should expect to have to follow that country's regulations. Your position is literally American exceptionalism. Do you think that because of NATO that US companies should be able to ignore EU consumer protection laws?
- DrNosferatu 3y agoThe US funds their companies a lot - via the DoD. The EU is only making it right.
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- DrNosferatu 3y agoOr the EU enforces competition on the AI hardware market by funding an “Airbus for GPUs”. I would say it’s even more strategic than the original.
- dist-epoch 3y agoThe EU Airbus for GPUs will appear 10 years from now and have the performance of a GPU from two years ago.
- DrNosferatu 3y agoThey won't start from zero. Nevertheless, what you point out is one more reason to get started ASAP.
- DrNosferatu 3y agoAs with the Concorde, the UK could be included. So this would encompass: ARM Holdings; Imagination Technologies (UK) - PowerVR GPUs (mobile, automotive, embedded) NXP Semiconductors (Netherlands) - GPUs for automotive & industrial STMicroelectronics (France/Italy) - GPUs for automotive, industrial & consumer BrainChip (Australia, subsidiary in France) - neuromorphic computing chips (similar to GPUs) Graphcore (UK) - intelligence processing units (IPUs) for machine learning (alternative to GPUs for some applications) InCore Semiconductor (Netherlands) - custom high-performance computing (HPC) solutions, including GPUs Kalray (France) - programmable processors for data centers (alternative to GPUs for some applications) RISC-V International (non-profit, enables European companies to design own GPUs) Think Silicon (Greece) ...any others?
- sva_ 3y ago> the modified GeForce RTX 2080 Ti will not face any Nvidia driver issues as the graphics card is seemingly supported and working without vBIOS modifications. That seems very surprising. Bet Nvidia will push out an emergency update soon, and then you'll have bricked and unbricked cards.
- mdorazio 3y agoEasy enough to get around - don't update your BIOS/drivers when they do. Same game that used to be played with pirated software and even iPhone updates for jailbreaking.
- cyanydeez 3y agothe speed at which open source models are moving, that's not a long term solution
- greggsy 3y agoThe market buying these would probably be savvy enough to avoid driver interference
- fredoliveira 3y ago> Bet Nvidia will push out an emergency update soon, and then you'll have bricked and unbricked cards. The crazy potential for that backfiring is, IMHO, reason alone for them to not even try.
- calamari4065 3y agoWhat possible consequences could there be? Are people going to start buying GPUs from the competition? There is no competition. There's no choice for the consumer. You buy nvidia or you don't get to play. Nvidia's reputation is already in the toilet. They have literally nothing to lose. There's no consequences for their actions.
- borissk 3y ago
- nottorp 3y agoOk maybe I'm a pessimist but when I saw the title I thought they just rewrote the bios to say 22 Gb, like sd cards...
- jsheard 3y agoIt's happened before, silly as it is, AMD once decided that a new 8GB card needed a 4GB variant at the last minute before launch so they shipped the first batch of "4GB" cards with 8GB installed and half of it just disabled in the VBIOS. You could easily flash it to unlock the full 8GB - the one time you really could download more RAM.
- mysterydip 3y agoI recall sometime around the 2000s they had Athlons that you could overclock by using a pencil to connect a couple contacts on top of the chip.
- ryukoposting 3y agoCouldn't you also turn your Athlon x2 into an Athlon x3 occssionally?
- jakeinspace 3y agoI did that with a Phenom II X2 555. The 3rd core was stable up to around 3.8ghz if I remember correctly, whereas the 2 enabled by default were fine up to at least 4.2.
- dtx1 3y agoThose were the Phenom Tripple Core Chips you are thinking of. What the Pencil mod did was enable the 4th core on the Tripple Core Chips. However, the 4th Core was likely a factory rejected core for some reason or another, so enabling it could lead to instability
- jsheard 3y ago
- mdorazio 3y agoI wish US sellers would start doing this, too. Nvidia's continuing refusal to put higher amounts of VRAM into its "affordable" cards combined with AMD's head scratching resistance to entering the ML space leaves average consumers who want to run bigger models locally with very few options.
- izacus 3y agoI think it leaves them with an option nVidia wants right? Paying them more for the VRAM.
- cyanydeez 3y agoright. it's bizzare watching tech heads confused about price segregation like it's some phantom force and not one of the glorious tools of monopolies and price gouging.
- michaelt 3y agoEven that, nvidia doesn't make easy. The RTX 4090 is so huge and power-hungry you can barely fit two into a case, let alone any more than that. And even if you replace your case, and your power supply (and maybe your motherboard and CPU too, gotta have enough PCIe lanes) you'll still only have 48GB of vram. OK, so we can't use an RTX GPU. Good luck even understanding the rest of nvidia's product range. The A40? "The World’s Most Powerful Data Center GPU for Visual Computing". V100? "The most advanced data center GPU ever built". H100? "Unprecedented performance, scalability, and security for every data center". A100? "Unprecedented acceleration at every scale to power the world’s highest-performing elastic data centers". H200? "The world’s most powerful GPU" L4? "The breakthrough universal accelerator". Good luck figuring out who sells them in your country, or if they're in stock. Oh, and remember to read the entire spec in excruciating detail. That $2700 L4 24GB is slower than an RTX 4090. Think you'll launch something in the cloud? With Google Cloud half the cards are only available in some regions - and even if you're in a region that offers a given GPU, maybe there's a shortage and support tells you to just keep requesting GPUs repeatedly until you get lucky.
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- Havoc 3y agoLove the upcycling, but still reckon a 2nd hand 3090 is the better play. 50% more price, 100% more performance (at least in resnet). Plus ofc 2GB extra and newer architecture
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- alkonaut 3y agoThe dream of game graphics was murdered first by crypto and then by LLMs. Is there any hope for a time when the market for high-spec GPUs will actually be games? Or has that ship sailed forever? At least AI has some sort of real world utility I guess, but I still wish neither revolution had happened.
- borissk 3y agoThe price of gaming GPUs have risen mainly because very few gamers buy AMD and Intel GPUs.
- wruza 3y agoTbh, graphics is not what games lack today. Personally I was fine with what we had 7-10 years ago graphics-wise, and most modern cards hit FPS limits for these games, apart from few pathological cases. But if you're into graphics, I agree it sucks, and probably forever now. Otoh those who were into graphics brought us here, didn't they, so maybe it's karma ;). Imagine that the great filter is not supernovae nor nuclear, but the fact that species may happen to have good enough eyesight to glimpse into the box of pandora computing.
- alkonaut 3y agoI really do like fancy graphics in games. Once you have seen the good ones, I now find it pretty off-putting when something looks like it was made 10 years ago (Recent example: Starfield). I think some games like the modern iterations of CP2077 are just mind blowing - all gameplay aside. But it's a shame that it costs basically north of $1000 to play it the way its developers hope you will.
- semi 3y agoThat's always been the problem.. it's hard to justify the expense of making a game few people have the hardware to run. So instead most games just target whatever modern consoles are which aside from right after a new release is usually relatively old for a PC.. which then makes it hard for PC gamers to justify spending that $1000+ when few games utilize it.
- givinguflac 3y agoSo close. I want 24GB so I can run stable diffusion video! That’s the bare minimum anyway is my understanding. Some day…
- aaron695 3y agoHere's the thread were Aisawk does it - https://tiebac.baidu.com/p/8178695637?pn=1 https://tiebac.baidu.com/p/8178695637?pn=1 (It's over a year old) The news is there is one for sale on eBay US? They are on AliExpress I think? - https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-2080TI-22G.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-2080TI-22G.html Video of someone else modding it - https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1sc411q73B/ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1sc411q73B/ Not sure I get the story.
- sva_ 3y agoNot sure why this comment got nuked, but I vouched for it. Perhaps automatically falsely detected as spam? Anyways the first and last link show the modification. Very cool.
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- adultSwim 3y agoEver since the U.S. banned Nvidia from selling its most prominent AI products .. in China This is so wrongheaded and shortsighted of us. This isn't the way to build a world of cooperation and prosperity.
- rldjbpin 3y agothis is not a new kind of mod, and it existed from many years now and has been demonstrated in 30 series GPU also (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389996 from 3+ years ago). i am still unsure why doubling the vram works so seemlessly, but i wonder if you need modifications at driver/vbios level to fully utilize the new capacity.