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Tai chi reduces blood pressure better than aerobic exercise
- georgeburdell 3y agoChinese researchers from Beijing University of Chinese Medicine publish study showing Chinese exercise practices are superior for some health metric
- pedalpete 3y agoDo you not eat Chinese food because it comes from China? I don't think Tai Chi is part of China's master plan of how they plan to take over the world. However, gastro-diplomacy is a real thing! https://www.vice.com/en/article/paxadz/the-surprising-reason-that-there-are-so-many-thai-restaurants-in-america https://www.vice.com/en/article/paxadz/the-surprising-reason...
- loughnane 3y agoPaper: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2814872 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... Results: - SBP difference was 2.4mmHg (95%CI -4.39 to -0.41mmHg) between Tai chi and aerobic exercise.
- alecco 3y ago> 6 Vasculocardiology Department, Fuzhou Hospital of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Fujian University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Fuzhou, China > 7 YongDingLu Community Health Care Center, Aerospace Center Hospital, Beijing, China > 8 Traditional Chinese Medicine Department, BaiLi Traditional Chinese Medicine Clinic, Beijing > 9 Medical Department of Beijing Gulou Traditional Chinese Medicine Hospital, Beijing, China hmmm
- justrealist 3y agoThe only thing worse than fake science is the journalists who mindlessly lap it up.
- nonethewiser 3y agoThis is exactly what I'd expect. There are hundreds of millions of people who learned Tai Chi is something that it is not and now they're left to grapple with it. This is superstition being exposed by the scientific method. Tai Chi is a pretend martial art that many people enjoy practicing. That doesn't make it worthless. It's a gentle exercise that isn't identical to others so it will have a somewhat unique benefit profile if you look deep enough. But the lens of science has burned away all the other bullshit and what's left is a mundane exercise with a unique cultural context. And that's fine, but hundreds of millions have yet to come to terms with that. It is difficult to have part of your worldview completely destroyed.
- salad-tycoon 3y agoI’m a trained “hypno” clinician because I wanted to learn more about the study of suggestion and outcomes. I remember studies coming out of China saying hypnotherapy could be effective in replacing anesthesia. Then I also found out about how there are many fraudulent studies coming out of China. (1) With 17,000 retracted studies with Chinese coauthors since 2021. Now that’s not to say that tai chai doesn’t work, nor does it mean this is fraudulent but it does pay to learn how to read these studies with a critical eye. https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-024-00397-x https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-024-00397-x
- brodouevencode 3y ago342 participants presumably of similar demographics, no mention of diet or previous health state, no mention of other cofactors Studies like this are just click-bait.
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoSometimes these studies read like they're trying to give people an excuse to not do high intensity cardio. And I say this as someone who hates cardio.
- emptybits 3y agoThere's just this: "342 adults aged 18 to 65 years with prehypertension, defined as systolic blood pressure (SBP) of 120 to 139 mm Hg and/or diastolic BP (DBP) of 80 to 89 mm Hg" But I agree; any other criteria that reduced the 1189 patients screened down to the final 342 is not mentioned.
- nanna 3y agoI think it was Virtua Fighter that taught me that Tai Chi is also the most powerful of martial arts, when weilded by a master. I've wanted to learn it since.
- zaphod420 3y agoIf you want to learn it for fighting, learn Chen style Tai Chi.
- hiddencost 3y agoThey're slow because they're working on muscle memory of subtle details. Speed it up and it's kinda intense.
- adrian_b 3y agoIn the 19th century Tai Chi was a real martial art used by professional bodyguards, including by some of those of the emperor. However it is likely that most of its techniques have been lost and only some of its training exercises converted in health-preserving exercises have been retained. While there still are some who claim to know which were the original meanings of the movements that compose the existing Tai Chi sequences, it is likely that most, if not all, such interpretations are just modern guesses and they are not based on any surviving secret information.
- adamgordonbell 3y agoAre they sort of saying that guided relaxation helps lower blood pressure? I assume restorative yoga, or mindfullness mediation or just "The relaxation response" would all do the same?
- elbear 3y agoI believe the benefit to Tai Chi is that you're more in motion. With Yoga you are more static. If you are static in a position where your muscles are contracted, it's hard to relax. With Tai Chi you are doing movements which contract and relax your muscles for shorter periods of time, which helps you relax. Also, the fluid movements can bring you to a state of effortlessness, which is of course also relaxing.
- cachecrab 3y agoNot all yoga is like that. Yin yoga involves holding one position for longer periods of time (often 2 minutes or more) and is meant to be relaxing.
- kuschkufan 3y agoholding a position sounds pretty static to me
- nonethewiser 3y agoI would agree but maybe he was excluding the forms of yoga that arent dynamic by naming the most static one ...
- beezlebroxxxxxx 3y agoThere doesn't really seem to be anything unique to single out tai chi in particular in this study. The benefits pointed out in the article --- that it's meditative, encourages stretching and relaxation, improves balance --- seem to also be associated with things like yoga, or just going through a general stretching and mobility routine. They idea that calming yourself (removing stress or just relaxing) will lower your blood pressure is so intuitive to most people that we say someone needs to calm down or "they'll blow a gasket." The contrast with "vigorous aerobic exercises" is also interesting. The study looked at > "Aerobic exercise interventions included climbing stairs, jogging, brisk walking, and cycling. Exercise intensity in the aerobic exercise group was monitored. The maximum heart rate was estimated as 208 − (0.7 × age in years)." which makes you wonder how much the findings compare to the well known benefits of zone-2 HR aerobic training. "Vigorous" is a bit of weird term that suggests very different things between different people. Low HR cardio is usually not considered "vigorous" at all. Another broader question would be whether maximizing lowered blood pressure is more important than getting people doing "vigorous" aerobic exercise, which brings a whole host of important benefits along with lowering blood pressure. Most people should get a lot more aerobic exercise and use relaxation methods, but I would probably recommend aerobic exercise first.
- bdsa 3y agoIsn't the expression usually "blow a gasket"? Meaning to blow a seal in a pressurised system
- smeej 3y agoI think you're right, but "blow a casket" does sound more dire!
- beezlebroxxxxxx 3y agoOh god you're right! I think autocorrect just jumped to casket on me. I'll edit it to fix.
- dylan604 3y agoyeah, but blowing a gasket might put you in a casket
- sebastianconcpt 3y agoAnd how does it compared to lifting/bodybuilding?
- criddell 3y agoThey didn’t look at that. Paper is here: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2814872 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
- nonethewiser 3y agoOr yoga or zoomba
- sebastianconcpt 3y agoZoomba counts as aerobic, Yoga might have a point tho
- nonethewiser 3y agoCan we assume all aerobic exercises yield the same results? I mean maybe I guess I just assumed it would be different.
- tanseydavid 3y agoI think someone could make a fortune in SF if they opened a place that had both: Tai chi and Chai Tea.
- bmwolf102990 3y agoThat is the most clever and hilarious thing I have read in a long time.
- RajT88 3y agoProbably not original. From a 1989 episode of The Simpsons: https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c1743b56-f791-49a9-9d22-0bd55c18c408 https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c1743b56-f791-49a9-9d22-0bd5...
- bmwolf102990 3y agoWell, original or not original, it still gave me a good chuckle. I don't watch The Simpsons, so I guess that is why I didn't register it in my brain.
- yard2010 3y agoGreat artists steal
- gmiller123456 3y agoPointing out "The Simpsons did it" is also not original. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpsons_Already_Did_It https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpsons_Already_Did_It
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoSeems like since Yoga is so wide-spread, and similar, that would be an obvious comparison. They should have studied them side by side. But don't think study even mentions yoga? Did I miss it?
- corysama 3y agoLong ago, maybe before the consumer internet, I saw a video claiming to showcase people who studied tai chi as a fighting art instead of just exercise. It was a lot of being able to follow the other person's movements to the point that "Fighting a tai chi master is like wrestling with an empty jacket". There was also a demonstration where a master pushed a student's middle finger back using an open palm. No matter how the student spun around and whipped his hand around, he couldn't get his finger away from the pressure of the palm that was following him around. No idea how legit it was. I've never seen tai chi presented primarily as self-defense since.
- mtremsal 3y agoThere are a lot of possibly exaggerated, and somewhat dubious, legends about Cheng Man Ching (who created the "Yang style" I believe). In one such story, he performs an exhibition match at the British Embassy in Chungking during WWII, and none of the British soldiers manage to land a single hit. In the story, the British army ends up so impressed they decide to study T'ai Chi.
- shwaj 3y agoYang Luchan was the creator of Yang style taijiquan.
- mtremsal 3y agoAh yes, thank you! The Cheng Man Ching so-called "short form" would be considered a descendant/variation of Yang style then. I assume we're more familiar with Cheng Man Ching in the West due to his travels and teachings in the US. Hard to say how closely related to the source modern-day lessons are TBH.
- jtbayly 3y agoI've seen a video of a Tai-Chi master fighting a whole group of students of his simultaneously. He did things like throw several of them off the mat by swooshing his hands at them. It was obvious to me that the students were simply responding to what they saw the master doing. I don't believe for one second that it would have worked if the students had blindfolds on.
- kazinator 3y agoI'm deeply skeptical. Sure, your blood pressure is not going to be low while you're doing aerobic exercise. If you do a lot of aerobic exercise consistently, your heart will get bigger and stronger, with a lower resting rate. That will bring your pressure down. It's not uncommon for endurance athletes to feel unusually lightheaded when standing up because of the low blood pressure and slow heart rate.
- amarant 3y agoOne of my best friends likes his cardio. A lot. Both his resting pulse and blood pressure are so low a nurse examining him (for what later turned out to be allergies) once thought he was dying and brought the hospitals cardiologist running while having someone else call the heart surgeon! I'm honestly not sure his exercise regiment is even healthy, it's a bit on the extreme side, but I doubt tai-chi can bring down anyone's blood pressure as low as his!
- Tagbert 3y agoIt seems like you would want both periods of exertion and periods of calming. They should address different issues.
- thisismyhna 3y agoI do Tai Chi twice a week and it is great for the knees as well. We have a few Yang style groups around us. I would recommend to anyone.
- cassianoleal 3y agoIt's the only thing that helps me longer term with shoulder issues as well. I work on the computer, play the guitar and am a rock climber. All those activities have the same tendency of rotating the shoulder forward. As you can imagine, RSI runs big, especially on my right shoulder. I've had many injuries over the years, tried all sorts of treatments - massages, yoga, physiotherapy, accupuncture, you name it. They all help and sometimes even heal the injuries completely but the only thing that really helps keep it healthy longer term (that I've found) is Tai Chi. Of couse, being the lazy bastard that I am, after a period with no injuries, I stop practicing it. Until the next injury, or some time into it after I exhaust all other options and eventually get back to Tai Chi and the healing can start properly again.
- thenobsta 3y agoFor computer work, I use a split keyboard. It allows me avoid internally rotating my shoulder. I highly recommend it. Split keyboards can be kinda expensive. It can be tested out cheaply by using a laptop and external keyboard -- left hand on the laptop right hand on the external keyboard. If you have a mac, I had to install karabiner to get keys from both keyboards to work in concert (e.g. to enable left shift and right 'k' to capitalize k).
- cassianoleal 3y agoYup, I used to have a split. I looked around and decided to get a Moonlander. Couldn't get used to it, felt overly awkward and terrible for my fairly small hands. I'm building one now using the wonderful Cosmos Keyboard Configurator [0], from the same author of the older Dactyl generator [1]. [0] https://ryanis.cool/cosmos/ https://ryanis.cool/cosmos/ [1] https://ryanis.cool/dactyl/#manuform https://ryanis.cool/dactyl/#manuform
- dukeofdoom 3y agoIf anyone want to get into this. There's a yoga series called "Namaste Yoga", a few of the episodes are online. This style of yoga emphasizes breathing. So if you actually do the stretching while trying to breathe in and out to the ques they give, it becomes much better and very meditative. If you really don't get the benefits of yoga, or are experiencing stress right now, you should give this series a try. Actually might be even better if you do it after a hot bath, since your muscles are warmed up. And a darkened room. Example episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edGlTd1pNi4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edGlTd1pNi4
- iamthejuan 3y agoRecently I have been doing Rajio Taiso, a calisthenic exercises that have been popularized since 1928 in Japan. This exercise believed to have helped the Japanese people have a longer and healthy life. It is just three minutes and I must say, enjoyable and communal.
- HumblyTossed 3y agoJust do something, anything at all (except cocain) that will get your heart rate into zone 3 for 20 min per day every day.
- javier_e06 3y agoMy master says: If you are not relaxed, you are exercising or maybe doing something interesting but you are not doing Tai Chi. I played every sport under the sun and I found in Tai Chi a way to be "In the Zone" through gentle practice and meditation.
- porphyra 3y agoTaichi is very similar to isometric exercise. Basically in a lot of moves you are pushing against yourself while moving slowly in circles. Isometric exercise, which is when you are exerting force but not moving, has been shown to be great at reducing blood pressure: https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/57/20/1317 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/57/20/1317
- paulrudy 3y agoIsometric exercise involves co-contraction of muscle groups. Taichi involves the minimal contraction of muscle to produce posture and movement, and encourages maximum availability for responsive, springy movement in every joint. If you're practicing taichi, you're not exerting force against yourself. Isometric contraction is antithetical to taichi practice.
- porphyra 3y agoI wouldn't go so far as to say antithetical. There are lots of positions in taichi that are basically isometric exercises: * Horse Stance (Ma Bu): This is a foundational stance in Tai Chi (and many other martial arts) that resembles a half squat. Practitioners lower their center of gravity with feet wide apart, bending the knees and keeping the spine straight. Maintaining this position requires muscle engagement similar to an isometric exercise, strengthening the legs, core, and improving balance. * Pushing Hands (Tui Shou): This exercise involves two practitioners who work against each other's force in a controlled manner, aiming to improve sensitivity, balance, and strength. While it's more dynamic than traditional isometric exercises, it involves moments where pushing against an opponent (or yourself in solo practice) can mimic the muscle engagement of isometric training. * Holding the Ball: This position involves standing with knees slightly bent, as if holding a large ball in front of you. This posture engages the arms, shoulders, and core muscles in a static manner, similar to an isometric hold, while also improving balance and concentration.
- paulrudy 3y agoWhen I think of isometric exercise, I think of co-contracting opposing muscle groups so that the body is exerting more effort than would be minimally necessary to maintain a posture. That kind of exertion would be antithetical to the practice of taichi, but perhaps that wasn't what you meant. If you meant simply that a posture or position is held against the resistance of gravity or some other resistance (like a partner), then that's isometric contraction by definition, since there is muscle activity but the joints are not moving. Still, by that definition, describing taichi as a form of isometric exercise doesn't really cut it for me. A fundamental part of practice is to continue discovering how to muscularly engage less, in order to free up the sensitivity, availability, and responsiveness of the body. The phrase "isometric exercise" doesn't conjure up that important aspect in my mind, but that's entirely subjective. Another aspect is that in practice, there is constant motion in the joints in taichi. Holding static postures is a common and useful aspect of training, but the actual use of taichi (a martial art, after all) is entirely dynamic. To an outside observer, a movement might appear as though a practitioner is holding their arm, spine, and head in fixed positions while turning the waist or stepping, but in actuality, every joint should be adapting and moving in concert with its neighbors. Nothing is held in a fixed position--one reason being that as soon as you're committed to holding something in a fixed position, your partner/opponent will exploit that as a fulcrum to destabilize you.