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I just bought a 2022 Kia Telluride and while taking it on our first long road trip, I discovered that it had full-on adaptive cruise control (embarrassed to adm

I just bought a 2022 Kia Telluride and while taking it on our first long road trip, I discovered that it had full-on adaptive cruise control (embarrassed to admit I didn’t even know this while purchasing it). What this translates to is “make minor steering adjustments to stay in your lane, try to cruise at speed X but if there’s a car in front of you going slower, follow them at distance Y”. Intuitive steering wheel controls to adjust X and Y. As someone who has never driven a self-driving car, I was amazed. I thought this was something only in Teslas and high-end Mercedes. Now I’m discovering it’s basically becoming standard at a certain level of medium luxury. I do not need, nor do I want more than this. It enables me to take my eyes off the road for enough time to rest my eyes, stretch my back, feet, change the tunes, grab something from the back seat, then settle back in. This is world changing especially when driving at night - I would bet it close to doubles my tolerance for continuous driving. I’ll bet it’s great in stop and go traffic as well, if you don’t care about being cut off by a ton of people. Given my (pretty in-depth) level of understanding of current state of sensors, control algorithms and AI, this is an activity I trust a car manufacturer to reliably implement. I also like driving. I’ll check back in ten or so years to see how the whole self driving thing is coming along.

AnotherGoodName 3y ago
Wait until you realize Tesla is behind on self driving compared to the major manufacturers. I drove a Volvo rental that was a couple of years old that had level 3 self driving that vastly outperformed any Tesla self driving. And that wasn't even the latest tech from Volvo. Tesla are behind on self driving and they charge extra for it!
- nradov 3y ago
  Volvo has never shipped level 3 autonomous driving. At most they are level 2. https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update The current market leader in terms of shipping products that are available for consumers to purchase is probably Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot. They are legitimately at level 3 and significantly ahead of Tesla in most (but not all) respects. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-review/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz...
- martindbp 3y ago
  Wow, since Tesla is so behind I guess my Volvo must be able to drive me through LA? https://youtu.be/0kvK_20mNuo?si=ooQj7S98GyCMAJEI https://youtu.be/0kvK_20mNuo?si=ooQj7S98GyCMAJEI No? No unprotected lefts, no roundabouts? Not even turning? Sounds very advanced, Tesla must be in a panic they're so far behind...
  - isityouyesitsme 3y ago
    This is the same type of thinking that prevents most developers from working in safety-critical fields. The presence of a feature, or even its impressive capabilities, is/are not what constitutes "performance." It's also the same type of thinking that gets Tesla drivers decapitated or slammed into an abutment.
    - martindbp 3y ago
      That would have an acceptable point to make if FSD was not capable of safely doing what all other ADAS systems can do, but it obviously can. It's just that Tesla has no interest in restricting its features and get L3 approval for such a small subset of driving. If today you claim FSD V12 is "behind" the lane keeping assist of other manufacturers, that is just delusion, I don't know what to tell you.
      - isityouyesitsme 3y ago
        I'm truthfully not understanding whether you've missed the point or if you're so interested in defending Tesla that you choose to look past it. I'm not making a claim about relative feature capabilities (yes, having replied in this specific thread makes that confusing, but that's where your comment was). I'm making a claim that the vast majority of developers do not know how to judge a system's safety. As an example of this from you, and for a more critical view of Tesla from me, I'll say that when I look at Tesla's capabilities, I could not make a claim that it does anything safely. Safety implies that the system knows its limits and refuses to operate outside of them. This is definitely not Tesla's way. Else it would be impossible, for example, to have sun blind spots make it not "see" a semi.
dansalvato 3y ago
Same, I was quite happy with the adaptive cruise control on my Tesla Model 3. I decided to try enabling FSD beta, and it's basically a disaster. I've experienced it: * Get confused about its lane position and swerve around in the lane * Attempt to get into the left lane despite a right turn coming up in a few seconds * Try to change lanes into a lane that doesn't exist, off the side of the road Once a month or two, I decide to give it another fair chance, and almost every time, it seems to want to do something stupid and/or dangerous.
gofreddygo 3y ago
> It enables me to take my eyes off the road for enough time to rest my eyes, stretch my back, feet, change the tunes, grab something from the back seat Oh for your and the sake of others, please don't do this. I have a similar system in my car, works great 99% of the time. But that 1%, where it went wrong, could have resulted in crashes had i taken my eyes or my hands or my feet or my mind off the driving aspect. There is no room for error here. Just stop on the side of the road if its too tiring. Focus more if you're late. Or just take an Uber or have someone else drive. Or better yet, take public transport. If none of these are options, just suck it up and drive. Please don't put yourself, or others in danger relying on this bullshit. When things go wrong, only one person is at fault and pays the price, it's you. Not Kia, not Tesla, just you, your family, the people in the crash and their family. Not worth it really.
- landryraccoon 3y ago
  I’m not sure your risk analysis is correct, if the driver is going to do those activities anyway, without the aid of self driving tech. People already do things like grab food from the backseat, fiddle with the music, read their texts etc.. while driving. Are they less of a risk to those around them if they have some self driving guard rails? I would argue very likely yes. Your conclusion of “you’re bad if you do this, so don’t do it” is rarely going to change human behavior. Giving people a tool to make the behavior they already want to do much safer is more likely to succeed.
  - gofreddygo 3y ago
    My knee jerk reaction was to point out the flaws in your argument, but I figure thats not constructive, so here goes. My first point is that taking eyes off the road while driving is risky business whether in a 2024 FSD Tesla or a 1996 Toyota tacoma. It's clear we don't want that. My second point is the risk is entirely on the driver, and the people involved in the crash, not the producer of the technology who absolves themselves of all liability from the use and effects of said technology. My personal experience that formed my opinion on this is that the technology is not ready to be fully trusted, not to the extent of taking eyes off the road (which really brought out my instinctive comment). I will agree that this does have potential to avoid some crashes. But human nature would make us sloppier drivers.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
teleforce 3y ago
What you have in the Kia is a level 2 autonomous driving [1]. This feature is called a Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) is now even available inside non luxury cars and vehicles, and I think one of nicest features is able to perform the ADAS in traffic jam thus the vehicle can perform stop and go function if the vehicles have electronic parking brake rather than the manual [1]. Level 5 will be equivalent to AGI, and most people think that it is most probably not achievable in the near future. [1]The 6 Levels of Vehicle Autonomy Explained: https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/autonomous-driving-levels.html https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/autonomous-driving-level...

AnotherGoodName 3y ago

Wait until you realize Tesla is behind on self driving compared to the major manufacturers. I drove a Volvo rental that was a couple of years old that had level 3 self driving that vastly outperformed any Tesla self driving. And that wasn't even the latest tech from Volvo. Tesla are behind on self driving and they charge extra for it!

nradov 3y ago
Volvo has never shipped level 3 autonomous driving. At most they are level 2. https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update The current market leader in terms of shipping products that are available for consumers to purchase is probably Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot. They are legitimately at level 3 and significantly ahead of Tesla in most (but not all) respects. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-review/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz...
martindbp 3y ago
Wow, since Tesla is so behind I guess my Volvo must be able to drive me through LA? https://youtu.be/0kvK_20mNuo?si=ooQj7S98GyCMAJEI https://youtu.be/0kvK_20mNuo?si=ooQj7S98GyCMAJEI No? No unprotected lefts, no roundabouts? Not even turning? Sounds very advanced, Tesla must be in a panic they're so far behind...
- isityouyesitsme 3y ago
  This is the same type of thinking that prevents most developers from working in safety-critical fields. The presence of a feature, or even its impressive capabilities, is/are not what constitutes "performance." It's also the same type of thinking that gets Tesla drivers decapitated or slammed into an abutment.
  - martindbp 3y ago
    That would have an acceptable point to make if FSD was not capable of safely doing what all other ADAS systems can do, but it obviously can. It's just that Tesla has no interest in restricting its features and get L3 approval for such a small subset of driving. If today you claim FSD V12 is "behind" the lane keeping assist of other manufacturers, that is just delusion, I don't know what to tell you.
    - isityouyesitsme 3y ago
      I'm truthfully not understanding whether you've missed the point or if you're so interested in defending Tesla that you choose to look past it. I'm not making a claim about relative feature capabilities (yes, having replied in this specific thread makes that confusing, but that's where your comment was). I'm making a claim that the vast majority of developers do not know how to judge a system's safety. As an example of this from you, and for a more critical view of Tesla from me, I'll say that when I look at Tesla's capabilities, I could not make a claim that it does anything safely. Safety implies that the system knows its limits and refuses to operate outside of them. This is definitely not Tesla's way. Else it would be impossible, for example, to have sun blind spots make it not "see" a semi.

dansalvato 3y ago

Same, I was quite happy with the adaptive cruise control on my Tesla Model 3. I decided to try enabling FSD beta, and it's basically a disaster. I've experienced it: * Get confused about its lane position and swerve around in the lane * Attempt to get into the left lane despite a right turn coming up in a few seconds * Try to change lanes into a lane that doesn't exist, off the side of the road Once a month or two, I decide to give it another fair chance, and almost every time, it seems to want to do something stupid and/or dangerous.

gofreddygo 3y ago

> It enables me to take my eyes off the road for enough time to rest my eyes, stretch my back, feet, change the tunes, grab something from the back seat Oh for your and the sake of others, please don't do this. I have a similar system in my car, works great 99% of the time. But that 1%, where it went wrong, could have resulted in crashes had i taken my eyes or my hands or my feet or my mind off the driving aspect. There is no room for error here. Just stop on the side of the road if its too tiring. Focus more if you're late. Or just take an Uber or have someone else drive. Or better yet, take public transport. If none of these are options, just suck it up and drive. Please don't put yourself, or others in danger relying on this bullshit. When things go wrong, only one person is at fault and pays the price, it's you. Not Kia, not Tesla, just you, your family, the people in the crash and their family. Not worth it really.

landryraccoon 3y ago
I’m not sure your risk analysis is correct, if the driver is going to do those activities anyway, without the aid of self driving tech. People already do things like grab food from the backseat, fiddle with the music, read their texts etc.. while driving. Are they less of a risk to those around them if they have some self driving guard rails? I would argue very likely yes. Your conclusion of “you’re bad if you do this, so don’t do it” is rarely going to change human behavior. Giving people a tool to make the behavior they already want to do much safer is more likely to succeed.
- gofreddygo 3y ago
  My knee jerk reaction was to point out the flaws in your argument, but I figure thats not constructive, so here goes. My first point is that taking eyes off the road while driving is risky business whether in a 2024 FSD Tesla or a 1996 Toyota tacoma. It's clear we don't want that. My second point is the risk is entirely on the driver, and the people involved in the crash, not the producer of the technology who absolves themselves of all liability from the use and effects of said technology. My personal experience that formed my opinion on this is that the technology is not ready to be fully trusted, not to the extent of taking eyes off the road (which really brought out my instinctive comment). I will agree that this does have potential to avoid some crashes. But human nature would make us sloppier drivers.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

teleforce 3y ago

What you have in the Kia is a level 2 autonomous driving [1]. This feature is called a Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) is now even available inside non luxury cars and vehicles, and I think one of nicest features is able to perform the ADAS in traffic jam thus the vehicle can perform stop and go function if the vehicles have electronic parking brake rather than the manual [1]. Level 5 will be equivalent to AGI, and most people think that it is most probably not achievable in the near future. [1]The 6 Levels of Vehicle Autonomy Explained: https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/autonomous-driving-levels.html https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/autonomous-driving-level...