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Abandoned villages of Hong Kong
- gottorf 3y agoAmazing how in the 4th-most dense place in the world[0], there could be such a thing as an abandoned village! [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...
- vidarh 3y agoA substantial proportion of Hong Kong is entirely undeveloped land.
- bobthepanda 3y agoA lot of these areas are remote via the road network, or on tiny little islands, or sometimes within the Frontier Closed Area separating Hong Kong and China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Closed_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Closed_Area
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoA lot of Chinese municipalities have lots of rural land, they can even encompass multiple counties if that makes any sense. A few even have sane ghost cities (like kangbashi in ordos) that are severely under populated. HK is mostly mountainous, so there are really dense parts between the mountains (which is cool when you have a dense but not large area surrounded by hills, like a university I visited). In this case, they are talking about an island, not connected via a bridge but a ferry, so it makes sense that life would be tough.
- ddeck 3y agoSurprisingly only 24% of Hong Kong is developed "built-up" area. The rest is mostly forested. This also means that despite the density being broadly equivalent to Singapore on that list, it is actually much more densely populated in the areas where people live and work. Hong Kong has a mountainous topography. Of the total land area of 1,111 km 2, 24.3% (270 km2) is built-up area, with the remaining 75 .7% (841 km 2) being not-for-development or non-built-up area consisting mainly of country parks, wetland, reservoirs, fish ponds, etc https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr17-18/english/panels/dev/papers/dev20180529-booklet201804-e.pdf https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr17-18/english/panels/dev/papers/d...
- ksec 3y agoYes. That means if we accounted for that. Compare to Number 1 on the list where Macau has no such issue. Hong Kong would take the Top Spot as the most populated place on the planet.
- larrysalibra 3y agoGovernment policy and moneyed interests have been aligned since the british to restrict land use to keep property prices high and buy political support of ancestors of indigenous residents through free handout of tiny plots of land for low density housing to the male descendants. All of the people that bought into the overpriced housing market also want prices to stay high. Hong Kong land use is fascinating and the government's Planning Department provides a great tool to explore how land is used and for what purpose: https://www.pland.gov.hk/pland_en/info_serv/open_data/landu/ https://www.pland.gov.hk/pland_en/info_serv/open_data/landu/ The total area used by transport (71 sq km) is very close to the total area used for all types of residential (80 sq km). Hong Kong has 733 sq km of woodland and forest.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoI wonder if HK could otherwise go Chongqing with their mountains, building the city up on them, or maybe blowing them up like they did in Lanzhou? It’s nice that they don’t, though.
- resolutebat 3y agoIn parts they do: the Hong Kong Island side has housing all the way to Victoria Peak and public escalators etc to serve it. The scenery isn't quite as dramatic as Chongqing though, and it's much less dense (particularly the upper levels are luxury/heritage houses, not apartments), so no monorails zipping through buildings etc.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoI’ve been up the escalators before, it doesn’t feel anything like CQ though. A lot of the mountains just don’t seem big enough or at a grade that would allow for housing all the way up (like Victoria peek or west Vancouver). They might be able to blow them up or terrace them.
- makeitdouble 3y agoMy uneducated guess: the denser, convenient and efficient a city is, the harder it will be to maintain that level of comfort in the outskirts or remote places and people will progressively move to the concentrated areas. We often hear people arguing that having cheap broadband in all local areas is just impossible, and I read it as "no young adult will want to live in those areas when they've the choice to move out on their own". Broadband being just one example.
- Arn_Thor 3y agoI can shed some light on this. Most of these villages began their demise around the middle to late middle of the last century, before or during the upsurge of the economy that would lead to the city's boom times. Times were very tough, especially out in the sticks, so those that could move abroad, or send their kids abroad, did. That is a large part of why you have a huge ex-Hong Kong community in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc. Entire villages cleared out. The thing is, they moved but most often retained land rights. So those villages fell into disrepair as people moved but the houses and plots of land usually belong to families that have lived abroad for one, two or three generations now. They could be developed but so far there's little incentive for people to do so, despite the high property prices (those that were very successful abroad instead bought property in Hong Kong's new towns and have seen asset values skyrocket). Hong Kong's government has historically been very good at providing services for the outlying areas. The many villages that did not end up abandoned have for decades had all the amenities, with stable power, clean water, fiberoptic broadband and often gas as well.
- makeitdouble 3y agoDon't they have adverse possession laws that would clear the land rights after a decade or so ? (UK and most countries have, I have expected HK to have to)
- KMag 3y agoI'm not sure about adverse possession, but my understanding is that the church behind Cheung Kong Centre is the only place in Hong Kong that privately owns land rather than leasing land from the government for 99 years. It would be better to sort out efficient use of land before the leases need renewal, but at least there's a mechanism to reclaim truly unused land.
- solresol 3y agoLikewise, I never expected that there would be a car-free village in Hong Kong. It's peaceful and quiet and laid-back: exactly what you wouldn't expect in Hong Kong.
- billti 3y agoOpen your maps app and go into satellite view. North of the main area most of Hong Kong is surprisingly green and unpopulated (until you hit the border with Shenzen). I spent some time in India years ago and remember being amazed that a country with over a billion people could have so much vast open beautiful countryside. It’s incredible how much population can fit into a few (very) dense areas.
- ijhuygft776 3y agoCNN reported that... so maybe double check their claims?
- jesterson 3y ago2024 and people still blindly believe what CNN is "reporting". Unbelieveable
- razakel 3y agoThey look like beautiful places to live, there just isn't the infrastructure or economy to support them. Which, admittedly, is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
- jojobas 3y ago>remote villages Please, the entirety of Hong Kong is like 40x50km. There sure are some tall steep hills making some areas just not worth messing with.
- bobthepanda 3y agoThere are also lots of tiny little islands, some of which used to be fishing villages.
- keiranlovett 3y agoRemote in this context can mean “out of the way and hard to get to”. Some of the outlining villages that are heavily populated are regarded as “remote” because they have limited public transport infrastructure. The density of the city combined with the mountainous topology makes it impossible to directly go to your destination. Then, these abandoned villages are on outlying islands from these heavily populated villages. You need to hire a private charter boat or a “tour service” to get to. So it can take 1-2 hours from the city center to get to one of the villages (if you’re going to Sai Kung Village, you’re on a single road prone to congestion during peak traffic), then you’re taking another 1-2 hour ride on a boat to the islands you want to go to. Certainly possible as day trips, but also certainly an inconvenience.
- jojobas 3y agoAnywhere else in the world 1-2 hours away from a metropolitan city centre is anything but remote. People commute from Pakenham to Melbourne (~1:20), from Alpharetta to Atlanta (~1:30) etc.
- keiranlovett 3y agoYes, which is my point… For Hong Kong, the density and “business” driven expectations of the city make it so that a 1-2 hour journey sitting on a bus is considered a long route. People do not want to waste time traveling within the city. It is common for some people to roll their eyes at the thought of traveling to Kowloon side if they live on Hong Kong side, even if it’s a 5minute train / 15 minute ferry trip.
- jez 3y agohttps://lite.cnn.com/2024/02/13/style/hong-kong-abandoned-villages-stefan-irvine-photographer-hnk/index.html https://lite.cnn.com/2024/02/13/style/hong-kong-abandoned-vi...
- circularfoyers 3y agoUnfortunately this removes the images it seems.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y agoThank you. I can't access the page otherwise, CNN says >Browser Blocked (Firefox) > >We apologize, but your web browser is configured in such a way that it is preventing this site from implementing required components that protect your privacy and allow you to view and change your privacy settings. This functionality is required for privacy legislation in your region.
- jjcm 3y agoMeta comment - what is going on with the network traffic on that page? Seems like there's ~20 network requests per second that are sustained when I open it up. Scrolling through the article and it ended up with 2k requests. Was getting lag even on an m1 pro.
- guardiangod 3y agoHong Kong has many of such sites. I remember when I was 7-ish years old, my father took me to an island to look for the grave of my great grandfather, who fled to HK during China's civil war. We trotted the mountains thru the tall hillside grass to reach clusters of abandoned graves, and checked the tombstones for the man's name. We more or less hiked (no trails) till sunset, when I suggested we should turn back before dark. The island was more or less deserted except for a newly built public housing estate at a pier. Being stuck on a (almost) wilderness mountain surrounded by abandoned tombs at night was not my idea of fun.
- sunnybeetroot 3y agoDo you recall the name of the island?
- reassembled 3y agoAnd did you find the great grandfathers grave?
- wahnfrieden 3y agoThey turned back
- jumploops 3y agoHighly recommend hiking a segment or two of the MacLehose Trail in Hong Kong. Section 5 [0] in particular is striking, as you're hiking through the forest _above_ Kowloon. Plus quite a few monkeys, if you're lucky! [0] https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail/hong-kong/sai-kung/maclehose-trail-section-5 https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail/hong-kong/sai-kung/m...
- KMag 3y agoThe monkeys are not native, and can be rather aggressive, particularly during the breeding season. The novelty wore off on me pretty quickly. Also, on Lantau Island, exercise caution when encountering feral cattle on hiking trails. But, I really miss hiking in Hong Kong, especially in the Autumn.
- dheera 3y ago> “I started the habit of carrying dog biscuits in my camera bag when I went out to these places,” he said That makes them more likely to attack other visitors, unfortunately.
- el_benhameen 3y agoDogs aren’t like criminals. They aren’t going to assume another visitor has treats and attack when the visitor doesn’t produce them. They’re going to emulate whatever behavior got them treats last time.
- keepamovin 3y agoThe deer of Japan disagree with you haha :) But more seriously what is a good strategy for dealing with wild dogs?
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoOh man, my bum can still feel being rammed by Nara deer looking for treats.
- keepamovin 3y agoHahaha! Yeah man. Those Nara deer. They look so innocent and then they suddenly turn. Hahaha, so funny! :)
- Terr_ 3y agoAlso tribes of monkeys in various part of Asia. "Oh look, a visitor. You will allow us to rifle through every pocket and steal your backpack, or else." No food? Some will take glasses, wallets, and phones hostage.
- ggm 3y agoNara.. they just gently bum-butt you I find. Maybe there's a more violent interaction I'm not aware of?
- 3y ago
- neom 3y agoKorea and Japan also have these. The Japanese ones are covered extensively on youtube, however, my favs are by Tokyo Lens, I like his style and his voice is very calming. Here are some of my faves: This Man Lives in an Abandoned Japanese School - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i2Ndgrgcu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i2Ndgrgcu8 (cont. I Spent 72 Hours in a Japanese School - Abandoned in the Mountains - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvPxJBiDgp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvPxJBiDgp8) Why Was This Japanese Village Abandoned? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPT6q_4OHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPT6q_4OHY Inside a free tiny house in Japan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneLNsV3oXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneLNsV3oXQ Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtflILeTBlX-KlzfudsxpbhWeJF1Jgv0i https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtflILeTBlX-Klzfudsxp...
- nojs 3y agoTaiwan too: https://www.twtainan.net/en/attractions/detail/4486 https://www.twtainan.net/en/attractions/detail/4486
- etrautmann 3y agoI was hiking in the outskirts of HK a while ago and was amazed to wander into the middle of a massive airsoft game that was being played in these abandoned villages. The players were decked out to 100% realism, where I couldn't tell that it wasn't a military exercise. Pretty surreal
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- keiranlovett 3y agoYou just unlocked a childhood memory of my time in Hong Kong. There was an “abandoned” anti-aircraft battery on one of the mountains on the island. We would occasionally go there for airsoft games. Not fully decked out like you’re talking about (but I’ve seen those too).
- boomboomsubban 3y agoI assume everywhere has them, the US has tons. Some were abandoned long ago, some still have residents but are slowly dying out. I had a friend who liked to go visit them, and I went with a few times. They look like the original post, old looking on the outside and falling apart on the inside.
- MPlus88 3y ago[dead]
- xianwen 3y agoThis is strange. Hong Kong is not that large, as compared to South Korea or Japan. Many people in Hong Kong live in tidy space. Why are there abandoned villages in Hong Kong?
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoDo you want to live in the city with utilities and transit infrastructure, or do you want to live in the middle of a mountainous island with nothing but a ferry connection to shore?
- rdoherty 3y agoIf you read the article it says exactly why: > In the 1950s and ‘60s, as Hong Kong grew as an industrial hub, many people migrated to the rapidly expanding urban centers for better working opportunities. “It’s hard farming and fishing out there in these remote areas, so a lot of people moved to the city to work in the factories,”
- resolutebat 3y agoThat explained why they were abandoned, but not why they haven't been reoccupied, since HK's population has exploded since the 1950s. The short answer seems to be corruption: a cabal of property developers colludes with the government to ensure prices are sky-high and nobody outside the system (like, say, whoever owns the land in these abandoned villages) gets building permits.
- Arn_Thor 3y agoA missing part of the story is that so many moved abroad. So the land rights now belong to first or second generation migrants and there just isn't enough pull to get them back. Yet there are sentimental and family reasons to hold onto the land--it costs nothing. And the land plots can't really be sold to developers at a high price unless the whole village, or a section of it, all get together and agree.
- 3y ago
- coggs 3y agoI lived in HK in the 90's at the HK University of Science and Technology. It's out in the New Territories, surrounded by small villages and otherwise mostly undeveloped dense, low-lying scrub. We'd hike in the country parks and it could be surreal; Remnants of abandoned villages like in the article. Feral dogs like in the article. We had some Hakka ladies take us on their boat out to I think it was Pak Sha Chau where there was a small pathetic abandoned amusement park. Also there was a larger island with an original refugee camp from the Vietnamese boat people era. Now I think it is a golf course.. Great memories
- ksec 3y agoOn a related topic: Anyone want to sign up for a HN meet up in Hong Kong. I have read at least a few expats on HN said to be working in HK. Not sure if there are many more of us.
- larrysalibra 3y agosure!
- qazxcvbnm 3y agoSounds like a fun idea!
- dewey 3y agoSign me up! Tried to get something going last year and met some people there (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35243008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35243008). Also if you are in HK and are interested in hacker spaces there's https://www.dimsumlabs.com https://www.dimsumlabs.com which is great. Has an open door every Tuesday (today!).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- patanouk 3y agoCount me in! For people interested in abandoned villages, I can heartily recommend the 'Hong Kong Abandoned Villages' group : https://www.facebook.com/groups/801573476651269/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/801573476651269/ The group still has content posted daily, with almost exclusively Hong Kong places
- btzs 3y agoI am interested, too!
- Renaud 3y agoHear, hear!
- faichai 3y ago
- dewey 3y agoFunnily enough I just walked by this gallery yesterday and planned on visiting it after the holidays. Looks really interesting.
- keepamovin 3y agoYeah by posting it I hoped to encourage people to visit the gallery too :)
- hansonpeter 3y ago[dead]
- Terr_ 3y agoI imagine part of it has to do with how how land-control works in HK, and the relationship between government income, taxes, and property developers. As a former resident, I sometimes hear people talking about how HK is ranked highly by some US think-tank with respect to business taxes and regulation--usually with a "we should do that in America" bent. Many of them don't seem to realize all the other idiosyncratic policies--ones they might dislike--which balance that and make it possible. For example, huge amounts of subsidized and/or government-run housing, revenues from the land leases, and an enormous sovereign-wealth fund.
- ulfw 3y agoLOL at the "enormous sovereign-wealth fund" comment. No such thing. We finally got one new just a year or so ago and it's miniscule (obviously, as it's new): https://www.chinadailyhk.com/article/304054 https://www.chinadailyhk.com/article/304054
- LudwigNagasena 3y agoIt is basically a restructuring of existing funds. The Exchange Fund acted as an SWF in all but name for a long time.
- blitzar 3y agoThe Exchange Fund is a SWF - the 4th largest in the world.
- GianFabien 3y agoLooks like an amazing area for a movie set. Just need the right script that takes advantage of the surreal scenery.
- papaver-somnamb 3y agoOnce upon a time, I went on a spontaneous solo trek along a trail I stumbled upon, after crossing a large, modern bridge on foot. Lan Tau maybe. It was beautiful. The hills were remarkably fragrant, and I wondered if that's a contributing factor in how HK got it's name ("Fragrant Harbor"). Saw a collection of no-longer-tended graves in the traditional womb shape. And along the ridges with views on both sides, I could really get a sense of lay and scale of HK. It was so enjoyable that I even forgot my exhaustion until I was solidly back in the built environment. That evening, when I returned and shared my excitement, I received a dressing-down for walking on the trails alone; explanation being people that have entered HK without permission or those fleeing within HK from like the law tend to hide out in the hills, and they are known to sometimes attack out of desperation or suspicion. To this day I'm still not certain about it, what was their reasoning rooted in..
- thriftwy 3y agoIt's very weird. Any of these houses in HK could have been a great dacha, and would cost hundred of thousands dollars.
- wkat4242 3y agoToo bad they destroyed the walled city.. Id have loved to see it one day.