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This is cruel and heartbraking. Didn't expect this to happen in any European countries the least in Poland where they have strong unions. Retaliation is pretty

This is cruel and heartbraking. Didn't expect this to happen in any European countries the least in Poland where they have strong unions. Retaliation is pretty common in the US - I announced to HR that my wife is expecting (Tue) and was fired on Friday.

faeyanpiraat 3y ago
Why did you announce it?
- tw04 3y ago
  Presumably because he wanted to take paternaty leave after his child was born. Also why wouldn’t you tell coworkers you’re having a baby? It’d be really weird to keep that a secret.
  - lukan 3y ago
    "Also why wouldn’t you tell coworkers you’re having a baby?" It was HR, not some coworker. But yes, it is messed up.
    - gsich 3y ago
      Toxic workplace then. HR are people too.
      - lb1lf 3y ago
        Cynically speaking, HR is an abstraction layer between management and employees, sorry, 'resources'. When I worked for a huge engineering multinational years ago, it showed time and time again that people went into HR with the best of intentions, but most were as time ground on disillusioned upon finding they were not, after all, employed to help other employees. The good ones mostly left, the poor ones thrived. Sigh. (That being said, I do believe HR has a purpose, ensuring (at least in theory) professional, correct and consistent treatment of employees. Just don't make the mistake of believing they are on your side; they are not.
        lukan 3y ago
        "When I worked for a huge engineering multinational years ago" I never was in a huge company, but in a small company, I found they can be nice and on the human side.
        lb1lf 3y ago
        Agreed; I believe the tipping point is where the company becomes so large that you no longer know, or at least are familiar with the people you're working with. I expect you are much more inclined to try to find a workable solution if the case at hand is Dave in accounting whose kid attends the same soccer practice your kid does than if he's just employee #628481.
        swores 3y ago
        Well, HR staff are people like any other department, so as with all people there's always potential for asshole behaviour even in a company that generally encourages HR to be employee-friendly, and potential for someone to do a nice thing that's technically against HR policy in a shitty company. Not to mention that the abstracted layer above - whether the company has employee-friendly or employee-hostile policies when it comes to HR team - is also ultimately down to people with the same potential for good and bad. "HR work for the company not for you, don't trust them" is a reasonable general rule considering the average HR department especially in large companies, but it's not a guarantee that all HR people, or even all HR teams' policies will be evil.
        Scarblac 3y ago
        The company gets the best bang for their buck if employees are reasonably happy, healthy and productive. So most of the time your interests and the company's should be aligned.
      - Muromec 3y ago
        HR are employer's cops and every cop-related advice applies, starting with "don't volunteer information". At least with managers in a big tech corp you have the same goal to pursue and failures to share. With HR it's either a script or a cop.
        lukan 3y ago
        "every cop-related advice applies, starting with "don't volunteer information"." I strongly disagree to that, but that is a different debate. (if you want my take: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34447138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34447138) And with HR it can be the same. If the HR have the guidelines of making the employes happy - then you absolutely can share information with them, making planning easier - with the result of a better outcome for everyone. Like when the wife will give birth. "So hey, concratulations, good to know, so we can plan around it" - if it is a good company. If it is a company who don't give a damn and see every person as replacable in an instant, then this is a different scenario and the rule of not giving them anything does apply.
        Muromec 3y ago
        >And with HR it can be the same. If the HR have the guidelines of making the employes happy - then you absolutely can share information with them It can be, but it requires a skill of reading the room and knowing nuances in a situation of information asymmetry. The combination of information asymmetry and hr people, being agents of the big corp and not caring about the outcome for you is what makes it problematic. > you absolutely can share information with them, making planning easier if they company has a clear policy and is known for following it -- sure. otherwise it's "x days off for personal reasons".
        lukan 3y ago
        Yes it depends. But the thing with a birth is, that the day is not clearly defined. Which is common knowledge and works in the companies I know(in germany though). With - when it is time, he needs to leaves that moment. But when you say "x days off for personal reasons" - they would like a date.
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    So back when my team was smaller, we used to do birthdays. Lure the coworker into a conference room on some pretense or another, then bring out a cake. Of course, once it became routine, it's rather hard to surprise someone -- any irregular meetings on your birthday are extremely suspect. So for one coworker's birthday, a week after we'd just done another's, I scheduled JACK'S BIG ANNOUNCEMENT on his birthday. He, of course, was extremely suspicious, and assumed it was a front for his birthday. I made my announcement, brought out the champagne (well, sparkling Catawba), went out into the hallway to get a corkscrew, and came back in with the birthday cake. So he had the whiplash of, wait, is this not for my birthday after all, wait, if it is, then are you not having a baby? And I declined to clarify until after I started my paternity leave, and half my coworkers didn't believe it until after I brought the kiddo in to show off. It was glorious.
    - otteromkram 3y ago
      This seems like a very good anecdote in favor of continuing remote work.
      - CoastalCoder 3y ago
        Definitely an illustration of how different persons want different workplace experiences.
        johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Replies are an illustration of how people can't respect others preferences as well.
    - caymanjim 3y ago
      I can't parse what you wrote to figure out what you were celebrating, but whatever it is, this is my idea of a workplace nightmare. It's bad enough being forced to celebrate someone else's birthday, but it sounds like you're also forcing people to celebrate their own birthdays without their permission, and possibly forcing people to celebrate pregnancies and other personal events without their permission? I would hate you if I worked with you.
  - sneak 3y ago
    [flagged]
- jjulius 3y ago
  Why wouldn't you communicate ahead of time that you're going to be taking a chunk of time off in the near future, specifically for something so important?
  - camdenreslink 3y ago
    Letting HR know your wife is expecting is that communication. Is he supposed to let HR know when they are trying to conceive? That seems unreasonable and TMI…
    - Dakizhu 3y ago
      I'm not clear on when exactly he let HR know, but the original post makes it seem like he let them know a week before. I think at least a couple months notice makes more sense depending on the duration of leave.
      - kelnos 3y ago
        I read that as he told HR on Tuesday, and then was fired three days later, on Friday. Not that the wife was due the following Tuesday. We don't know how far out the due date was based on what OP said. I agree that employees should give sufficient notice for something like that. But even if they don't, that's not grounds for firing. It might be grounds for disallowing the leave until the required notice period has passed, assuming that's documented and legally allowed.
IlikeMadison 3y ago
Wait. You were fired because you said to HR that you are going to be a father next week? How is this even legal?
- jjulius 3y ago
  I think they're saying that they notified them on Tuesday, and were canned Friday.
- earthwalker99 3y ago
  [dead]
  - pierat 3y ago
    Keep on fighting the good fight. I'll keep on eating their money from below with pierat-sy. Saved money on music, shows, and programs means harm to the fucks at the top.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > Those downvoting me for sharing the literal definition of capitalism should at least have the self-respect to defend themselves. I downvoted because it is off-topic and very obvious flamebait, as simple as that. No one downvoted you just for sharing the dictionary definition of capitalism, you woulda gotten plenty of upvotes for that exact same comment in a thread where it was actually relevant.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    If "capitalism" is the reason that it's ok to fire someone because they're about to have a child, then capitalism is garbage and should be discarded. Systems that prioritize money over humans are disgusting, and, sadly, we have far too many of them in modern society. Note that we implicitly recognize this through law: there is no such thing as a "free market". Markets are regulated, and we have things like FMLA because we understand that capitalism is heartless, and if we allowed it free rein, we'd live in a dystopian society that no one except the wealthy elite would actually want. Unfortunately, even with all that, we still don't control enough of capitalism's negative effects on people. That's why I downvoted you. Also, don't complain about downvotes. That's against the HN guidelines, and will usually get you downvoted further; complaining about downvotes rarely leads to interesting discussion. If you're unsure why you're being downvoted, maybe that's your problem, not ours. No one lacks self-respect because they see an obviously-crappy comment, downvotes it, and moves on without "defending" their vote. The entire concept you are trying to push with that is nonsensical.
Symbiote 3y ago
At least it has gone to court, and she has won at this point. It's not clear to me whether Magda gets paid for the time between her dismissal and her job being reinstated. I'll continue to boycott Amazon. Earlier in the week I spent about an hour sleuthing the web to find an obscure item that wasn't from Amazon or China, finally found it at a local supplier. > I announced to HR that my wife is expecting (Tue) and was fired on Friday. Did you expect this might happen, maybe the baby is due very soon? It's awful in any case :-(
- elicash 3y ago
  I can’t speak to this case, but generally low wage workers are paycheck to paycheck and so get jobs while they wait for the system to do their thing. They only get paid for loss of income, so it actually subtracts what they earned in that time and so by working in the meantime the damages paid are much smaller. There are no punitive damages or anything.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Is that for Poland, or somewhere else? In Britain you're compensated up to £643/week by default (up to your weekly pay amount), plus compensation similar to what you describe. I don't speak Polish, so I doubt I could find the situation there. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/employment-tribunals/employment-tribunals/before-you-go-to-the-tribunal/check-what-compensation-you-can-get-for-unfair-dismissal/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/employment-tribunals/...
    - elicash 3y ago
      United States, sorry that's what I meant about not speaking to this case. I was very unclear! My apologies for the confusion.
- buo 3y ago
  > I'll continue to boycott Amazon. You're not the only one. I haven't bought anything from Amazon in the past five years or so.
SoftTalker 3y ago
Sounds like an FMLA violation. Did you specifically say you would be taking leave? Not already on a "performance improvement" plan of any sort? Was anyone else let go on Friday? I don't know how hard this sort of thing is to litigate, "at will" employment covers a lot of abuses, and honestly why would you want to stay at an employer who treats you like this? Probably best to spend your energy finding a new job. Edit to add: You could report this to the Department of Labor. Not sure you'd personally get any restitution but if your employer was willing to do this kind of thing, you are probably not the only one they have screwed over. If an employer has a record of complaints they might get audited which could cost them a lot in penalties if they are violating the law.
- fn-mote 3y ago
  > why would you want to stay at an employer who treats you like this? Probably best to spend your engergy finding a new job. While this is all true, doing that also allows / encourages the employer to continue their abusive actions toward others. It's a big decision to fight something like this in the legal system. It might affect your future employement prospects, depending on details. Grim.
  - varelse 3y ago
    [dead]
- maire 3y ago
  FMLA only covers companies with 50 or more employees. A friend was fired in the US when she told her boss she was pregnant and discovered this limitation. Her previous work experience was in France so she did not realize this could happen.
  - euroderf 3y ago
    I perceive yet another motivation for companies to aggressively classify employees as contractors.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
otteromkram 3y ago
Retaliation is not common in the US. Stop spreading misinformation. Why would an HR department from any reputable organization fire you if your wife is expecting?
- markstos 3y ago
  Your counterpoint that it's not common has the same level of evidence in it as the original assertion: none.
  - dantheman 3y ago
    An absence of evidence for the argument against something being common is evidence.
    - metabagel 3y ago
      How would one go about finding evidence that retaliation is common in the U.S.? Sometimes, absence of evidence is because the evidence isn’t readily available.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      Evidence for what, though? An absence of evidence is perhaps evidence that someone who is asserting something is happening didn't do their homework. But an absence of evidence is certainly not evidence that something is not happening. It might be persuasive enough to allow people to reasonably believe that something is not happening. But it's not evidence of such.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  IDK if it's very common but it happens, especially at smaller companies who either don't know the rules or those who have gotten away with it in the past and think they are too small to get noticed. Just recently here a restaurant was fined for not paying overtime by employing dishwashers and kitchen staff as "salaried" exempt employees. At large companies with in-house legal and HR teams? It probably doesn't happen much, but even there they will know what they can get away with.
ricardobayes 3y ago
This is so stupid. In Spain even fathers get "paternity" leave. You even get a week off if you get married...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- solardev 3y ago
  In the USA, everyone gets leave all the time! You just don't get paid.
  - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
    And your job probably isn’t there when you come back!
- dudul 3y ago
  In the US too you get paternity leave, it's very fishy to see someone claim they got fired for announcing that their partner is expecting. This is a massive liability.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    What parallel universe are you in? There is no guaranteed paternity leave in the US. Some states may have it, and a few employers offer it, but it’s in no way a right.
  - solardev 3y ago
    It really depends on your state and company size: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/state-paid-family-leave-laws-across-the-u-s/ https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/state-paid-family-lea... In general, it is better for US employees to plan as though they had no rights (especially if they can't afford a good lawyer or wait months/years for the NLRB to process a claim, and even then only during a Democratic administration). Of course they actually have a few rights, but much fewer than in European and many Asian countries, and the enforcement/protection is pretty minimal and delayed. Most employees will just get trampled on with no real avenue for recourse, especially if they have bills due in a week or two.
dudul 3y ago
Do you have a source describing how common retaliation is in the US? I always thought it was actually pretty rare. Sorry you lost your job, but I find it difficult to believe that it is solely due to you announcing the arrival of your child. Paternity leave is rarely more than 2 weeks in the US, I can't imagine a company preferring to deal with potential law suit instead of just living 2 weeks without an employee.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  I expect most retaliation goes unreported, so going to be difficult to get any numbers that are not full of assumptions. Even if you know someone fired you for X, going to be hard to prove it: time, money, conflicting accounts, potential reputational damage for suing employer.
Lamad1234 3y ago
[dead]
mandeepj 3y ago
> Retaliation is pretty common in the US I agree! And, they say this bluntly and while chest thumping: ‘we have strong laws against retaliation’ :-) You disagree with your manager and that as*hole will put you on a pip the very next day
saltybytes 3y ago
Just to clarify: was "fired without cause" (worked "at will" which most of full-time employments are in the US). By asking why they were getting rid of me I heard the pharse "for no good reason, really" like a broken record. This was enough indication that it was clearly in regards to my talk with HR a few days prior. Also, during my announcement to HR about my wife's circumstances, I remarked I wanted to take some time off to be there for wifey & baby. The company was 90% lawyers so just in case I wanted to proceed legal action against them, their Armada of lawyers made a possible follow-up rather unsavory.
- spopejoy 3y ago
  > their Armada of lawyers made a possible follow-up rather unsavory Understood, but you should also know that EPLI deductibles are often in the mid-to-high five figures usually, which is an incentive for the employer to settle for anything less than that deductible. Point being, if you get a lawyer, threaten to make a stink etc and are generally showing you're serious about fighting this abuse, settlement to the tune of 20-70k is a reasonable expectation. IANAL etc
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 3y ago
> I announced to HR that my wife is expecting (Tue) and was fired on Friday That's so low. Really, your former employer is despicable.
turquoisevar 3y ago
Sadly, and I say this with all the love for my Polish brethren and sisters, Poland and many Eastern European countries still have some catching up to do. The silver lining, however, is that these countries make significant headway at a steady pace. Especially the countries that are part of the EU are constantly improving, partly because they have to adhere to the EU-wide minimum baseline. So I've got faith they'll get there. But this lagging behind, for lack of a better world, is also, in part, why many US companies that want to expand into the EU set up bases in countries like Poland. It's generally cheaper and is the “least bad” from the corporations’ perspective regarding labor rights.

faeyanpiraat 3y ago

Why did you announce it?

tw04 3y ago
Presumably because he wanted to take paternaty leave after his child was born. Also why wouldn’t you tell coworkers you’re having a baby? It’d be really weird to keep that a secret.
- lukan 3y ago
  "Also why wouldn’t you tell coworkers you’re having a baby?" It was HR, not some coworker. But yes, it is messed up.
  - gsich 3y ago
    Toxic workplace then. HR are people too.
    - lb1lf 3y ago
      Cynically speaking, HR is an abstraction layer between management and employees, sorry, 'resources'. When I worked for a huge engineering multinational years ago, it showed time and time again that people went into HR with the best of intentions, but most were as time ground on disillusioned upon finding they were not, after all, employed to help other employees. The good ones mostly left, the poor ones thrived. Sigh. (That being said, I do believe HR has a purpose, ensuring (at least in theory) professional, correct and consistent treatment of employees. Just don't make the mistake of believing they are on your side; they are not.
      - lukan 3y ago
        "When I worked for a huge engineering multinational years ago" I never was in a huge company, but in a small company, I found they can be nice and on the human side.
        lb1lf 3y ago
        Agreed; I believe the tipping point is where the company becomes so large that you no longer know, or at least are familiar with the people you're working with. I expect you are much more inclined to try to find a workable solution if the case at hand is Dave in accounting whose kid attends the same soccer practice your kid does than if he's just employee #628481.
        swores 3y ago
        Well, HR staff are people like any other department, so as with all people there's always potential for asshole behaviour even in a company that generally encourages HR to be employee-friendly, and potential for someone to do a nice thing that's technically against HR policy in a shitty company. Not to mention that the abstracted layer above - whether the company has employee-friendly or employee-hostile policies when it comes to HR team - is also ultimately down to people with the same potential for good and bad. "HR work for the company not for you, don't trust them" is a reasonable general rule considering the average HR department especially in large companies, but it's not a guarantee that all HR people, or even all HR teams' policies will be evil.
      - Scarblac 3y ago
        The company gets the best bang for their buck if employees are reasonably happy, healthy and productive. So most of the time your interests and the company's should be aligned.
    - Muromec 3y ago
      HR are employer's cops and every cop-related advice applies, starting with "don't volunteer information". At least with managers in a big tech corp you have the same goal to pursue and failures to share. With HR it's either a script or a cop.
      - lukan 3y ago
        "every cop-related advice applies, starting with "don't volunteer information"." I strongly disagree to that, but that is a different debate. (if you want my take: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34447138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34447138) And with HR it can be the same. If the HR have the guidelines of making the employes happy - then you absolutely can share information with them, making planning easier - with the result of a better outcome for everyone. Like when the wife will give birth. "So hey, concratulations, good to know, so we can plan around it" - if it is a good company. If it is a company who don't give a damn and see every person as replacable in an instant, then this is a different scenario and the rule of not giving them anything does apply.
        Muromec 3y ago
        >And with HR it can be the same. If the HR have the guidelines of making the employes happy - then you absolutely can share information with them It can be, but it requires a skill of reading the room and knowing nuances in a situation of information asymmetry. The combination of information asymmetry and hr people, being agents of the big corp and not caring about the outcome for you is what makes it problematic. > you absolutely can share information with them, making planning easier if they company has a clear policy and is known for following it -- sure. otherwise it's "x days off for personal reasons".
        lukan 3y ago
        Yes it depends. But the thing with a birth is, that the day is not clearly defined. Which is common knowledge and works in the companies I know(in germany though). With - when it is time, he needs to leaves that moment. But when you say "x days off for personal reasons" - they would like a date.
- saalweachter 3y ago
  So back when my team was smaller, we used to do birthdays. Lure the coworker into a conference room on some pretense or another, then bring out a cake. Of course, once it became routine, it's rather hard to surprise someone -- any irregular meetings on your birthday are extremely suspect. So for one coworker's birthday, a week after we'd just done another's, I scheduled JACK'S BIG ANNOUNCEMENT on his birthday. He, of course, was extremely suspicious, and assumed it was a front for his birthday. I made my announcement, brought out the champagne (well, sparkling Catawba), went out into the hallway to get a corkscrew, and came back in with the birthday cake. So he had the whiplash of, wait, is this not for my birthday after all, wait, if it is, then are you not having a baby? And I declined to clarify until after I started my paternity leave, and half my coworkers didn't believe it until after I brought the kiddo in to show off. It was glorious.
  - otteromkram 3y ago
    This seems like a very good anecdote in favor of continuing remote work.
    - CoastalCoder 3y ago
      Definitely an illustration of how different persons want different workplace experiences.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Replies are an illustration of how people can't respect others preferences as well.
  - caymanjim 3y ago
    I can't parse what you wrote to figure out what you were celebrating, but whatever it is, this is my idea of a workplace nightmare. It's bad enough being forced to celebrate someone else's birthday, but it sounds like you're also forcing people to celebrate their own birthdays without their permission, and possibly forcing people to celebrate pregnancies and other personal events without their permission? I would hate you if I worked with you.
- sneak 3y ago
  [flagged]
jjulius 3y ago
Why wouldn't you communicate ahead of time that you're going to be taking a chunk of time off in the near future, specifically for something so important?
- camdenreslink 3y ago
  Letting HR know your wife is expecting is that communication. Is he supposed to let HR know when they are trying to conceive? That seems unreasonable and TMI…
  - Dakizhu 3y ago
    I'm not clear on when exactly he let HR know, but the original post makes it seem like he let them know a week before. I think at least a couple months notice makes more sense depending on the duration of leave.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      I read that as he told HR on Tuesday, and then was fired three days later, on Friday. Not that the wife was due the following Tuesday. We don't know how far out the due date was based on what OP said. I agree that employees should give sufficient notice for something like that. But even if they don't, that's not grounds for firing. It might be grounds for disallowing the leave until the required notice period has passed, assuming that's documented and legally allowed.

IlikeMadison 3y ago

Wait. You were fired because you said to HR that you are going to be a father next week? How is this even legal?

jjulius 3y ago
I think they're saying that they notified them on Tuesday, and were canned Friday.
earthwalker99 3y ago
[dead]
- pierat 3y ago
  Keep on fighting the good fight. I'll keep on eating their money from below with pierat-sy. Saved money on music, shows, and programs means harm to the fucks at the top.
- filoleg 3y ago
  > Those downvoting me for sharing the literal definition of capitalism should at least have the self-respect to defend themselves. I downvoted because it is off-topic and very obvious flamebait, as simple as that. No one downvoted you just for sharing the dictionary definition of capitalism, you woulda gotten plenty of upvotes for that exact same comment in a thread where it was actually relevant.
- kelnos 3y ago
  If "capitalism" is the reason that it's ok to fire someone because they're about to have a child, then capitalism is garbage and should be discarded. Systems that prioritize money over humans are disgusting, and, sadly, we have far too many of them in modern society. Note that we implicitly recognize this through law: there is no such thing as a "free market". Markets are regulated, and we have things like FMLA because we understand that capitalism is heartless, and if we allowed it free rein, we'd live in a dystopian society that no one except the wealthy elite would actually want. Unfortunately, even with all that, we still don't control enough of capitalism's negative effects on people. That's why I downvoted you. Also, don't complain about downvotes. That's against the HN guidelines, and will usually get you downvoted further; complaining about downvotes rarely leads to interesting discussion. If you're unsure why you're being downvoted, maybe that's your problem, not ours. No one lacks self-respect because they see an obviously-crappy comment, downvotes it, and moves on without "defending" their vote. The entire concept you are trying to push with that is nonsensical.

Symbiote 3y ago

At least it has gone to court, and she has won at this point. It's not clear to me whether Magda gets paid for the time between her dismissal and her job being reinstated. I'll continue to boycott Amazon. Earlier in the week I spent about an hour sleuthing the web to find an obscure item that wasn't from Amazon or China, finally found it at a local supplier. > I announced to HR that my wife is expecting (Tue) and was fired on Friday. Did you expect this might happen, maybe the baby is due very soon? It's awful in any case :-(

elicash 3y ago
I can’t speak to this case, but generally low wage workers are paycheck to paycheck and so get jobs while they wait for the system to do their thing. They only get paid for loss of income, so it actually subtracts what they earned in that time and so by working in the meantime the damages paid are much smaller. There are no punitive damages or anything.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Is that for Poland, or somewhere else? In Britain you're compensated up to £643/week by default (up to your weekly pay amount), plus compensation similar to what you describe. I don't speak Polish, so I doubt I could find the situation there. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/employment-tribunals/employment-tribunals/before-you-go-to-the-tribunal/check-what-compensation-you-can-get-for-unfair-dismissal/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/employment-tribunals/...
  - elicash 3y ago
    United States, sorry that's what I meant about not speaking to this case. I was very unclear! My apologies for the confusion.
buo 3y ago
> I'll continue to boycott Amazon. You're not the only one. I haven't bought anything from Amazon in the past five years or so.

SoftTalker 3y ago

Sounds like an FMLA violation. Did you specifically say you would be taking leave? Not already on a "performance improvement" plan of any sort? Was anyone else let go on Friday? I don't know how hard this sort of thing is to litigate, "at will" employment covers a lot of abuses, and honestly why would you want to stay at an employer who treats you like this? Probably best to spend your energy finding a new job. Edit to add: You could report this to the Department of Labor. Not sure you'd personally get any restitution but if your employer was willing to do this kind of thing, you are probably not the only one they have screwed over. If an employer has a record of complaints they might get audited which could cost them a lot in penalties if they are violating the law.

fn-mote 3y ago
> why would you want to stay at an employer who treats you like this? Probably best to spend your engergy finding a new job. While this is all true, doing that also allows / encourages the employer to continue their abusive actions toward others. It's a big decision to fight something like this in the legal system. It might affect your future employement prospects, depending on details. Grim.
- varelse 3y ago
  [dead]
maire 3y ago
FMLA only covers companies with 50 or more employees. A friend was fired in the US when she told her boss she was pregnant and discovered this limitation. Her previous work experience was in France so she did not realize this could happen.
- euroderf 3y ago
  I perceive yet another motivation for companies to aggressively classify employees as contractors.
- SoftTalker 3y ago

otteromkram 3y ago

Retaliation is not common in the US. Stop spreading misinformation. Why would an HR department from any reputable organization fire you if your wife is expecting?

markstos 3y ago
Your counterpoint that it's not common has the same level of evidence in it as the original assertion: none.
- dantheman 3y ago
  An absence of evidence for the argument against something being common is evidence.
  - metabagel 3y ago
    How would one go about finding evidence that retaliation is common in the U.S.? Sometimes, absence of evidence is because the evidence isn’t readily available.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Evidence for what, though? An absence of evidence is perhaps evidence that someone who is asserting something is happening didn't do their homework. But an absence of evidence is certainly not evidence that something is not happening. It might be persuasive enough to allow people to reasonably believe that something is not happening. But it's not evidence of such.
SoftTalker 3y ago
IDK if it's very common but it happens, especially at smaller companies who either don't know the rules or those who have gotten away with it in the past and think they are too small to get noticed. Just recently here a restaurant was fined for not paying overtime by employing dishwashers and kitchen staff as "salaried" exempt employees. At large companies with in-house legal and HR teams? It probably doesn't happen much, but even there they will know what they can get away with.

ricardobayes 3y ago

This is so stupid. In Spain even fathers get "paternity" leave. You even get a week off if you get married...

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solardev 3y ago
In the USA, everyone gets leave all the time! You just don't get paid.
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  And your job probably isn’t there when you come back!
dudul 3y ago
In the US too you get paternity leave, it's very fishy to see someone claim they got fired for announcing that their partner is expecting. This is a massive liability.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  What parallel universe are you in? There is no guaranteed paternity leave in the US. Some states may have it, and a few employers offer it, but it’s in no way a right.
- solardev 3y ago
  It really depends on your state and company size: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/state-paid-family-leave-laws-across-the-u-s/ https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/state-paid-family-lea... In general, it is better for US employees to plan as though they had no rights (especially if they can't afford a good lawyer or wait months/years for the NLRB to process a claim, and even then only during a Democratic administration). Of course they actually have a few rights, but much fewer than in European and many Asian countries, and the enforcement/protection is pretty minimal and delayed. Most employees will just get trampled on with no real avenue for recourse, especially if they have bills due in a week or two.

dudul 3y ago

Do you have a source describing how common retaliation is in the US? I always thought it was actually pretty rare. Sorry you lost your job, but I find it difficult to believe that it is solely due to you announcing the arrival of your child. Paternity leave is rarely more than 2 weeks in the US, I can't imagine a company preferring to deal with potential law suit instead of just living 2 weeks without an employee.

fbdab103 3y ago
I expect most retaliation goes unreported, so going to be difficult to get any numbers that are not full of assumptions. Even if you know someone fired you for X, going to be hard to prove it: time, money, conflicting accounts, potential reputational damage for suing employer.

Lamad1234 3y ago

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mandeepj 3y ago

> Retaliation is pretty common in the US I agree! And, they say this bluntly and while chest thumping: ‘we have strong laws against retaliation’ :-) You disagree with your manager and that as*hole will put you on a pip the very next day

saltybytes 3y ago

Just to clarify: was "fired without cause" (worked "at will" which most of full-time employments are in the US). By asking why they were getting rid of me I heard the pharse "for no good reason, really" like a broken record. This was enough indication that it was clearly in regards to my talk with HR a few days prior. Also, during my announcement to HR about my wife's circumstances, I remarked I wanted to take some time off to be there for wifey & baby. The company was 90% lawyers so just in case I wanted to proceed legal action against them, their Armada of lawyers made a possible follow-up rather unsavory.

spopejoy 3y ago
> their Armada of lawyers made a possible follow-up rather unsavory Understood, but you should also know that EPLI deductibles are often in the mid-to-high five figures usually, which is an incentive for the employer to settle for anything less than that deductible. Point being, if you get a lawyer, threaten to make a stink etc and are generally showing you're serious about fighting this abuse, settlement to the tune of 20-70k is a reasonable expectation. IANAL etc

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jacquesm 3y ago

> I announced to HR that my wife is expecting (Tue) and was fired on Friday That's so low. Really, your former employer is despicable.

turquoisevar 3y ago

Sadly, and I say this with all the love for my Polish brethren and sisters, Poland and many Eastern European countries still have some catching up to do. The silver lining, however, is that these countries make significant headway at a steady pace. Especially the countries that are part of the EU are constantly improving, partly because they have to adhere to the EU-wide minimum baseline. So I've got faith they'll get there. But this lagging behind, for lack of a better world, is also, in part, why many US companies that want to expand into the EU set up bases in countries like Poland. It's generally cheaper and is the “least bad” from the corporations’ perspective regarding labor rights.